Sub-sonic .308 hunting rounds

[hoofit]

Hi all,

New to the forum and hopefully I don't make everyone sick of me too quickly with lots of stupid questions

I have a .308 and want to get the misses involved in a bit of shooting. She's keen too but she's a bit gun shy, noise and recall.

She would be better off with a smaller calibre but it's not in the budget at the moment and probably not worth getting her her own rifle anyway TBH for how much she will shoot.

This has lead me to thinking about sub-sonic .308 hunting rounds?

I know I can load some heavy pills with light loads to get it down. That will fix some of the sound without the crack but how will it go for recoil and will they shoot half decent?

Not so hot with the ballistics calculators to work this stuff out

[Broom]

You can do it.

What ranges are you hunting at? What game?

The problem with subsonic .30 cal weights is the trajectory is like throwing a brick.

For a 180gr pill zeroed at 100m the drop at 200m is something like 35 inchs

I'd have to put the figures into a calculator for energy figures, can't do this for you at the moment. Will try get back tonight.

[1sikxt]

10 grs of trailboss is subsonic and gives u good case volume

[Westy]

10 grs of trailboss is subsonic and gives u good case volume

It works the best full stop!!!Tested some out over Easter weekend great on property's were space is a issue!!!!A mate uses them on smaller blocks ,they don't open up but they still are effective!!!!

[1sikxt]

Also using the 30-30 rounds

[MeccaOz]

They will do fine in my opinion.. I knpw guys who do use them.. mainly the big 200+ gn rounds for bulls and stuff ( Lapua store bought )
. And one thing ive found breaking in a new shooter is to make them wear muffs.. Be surprised how much finch develops when they know that big crack is coming. Subsonics will still be loud but better than fullhouse loads

[yoshie]

What about loading some 100-110 grain bullets just under starting load and see how they go. You can always reduce them down more. I wouldn't go below 10% downloading.

[mausermate]

They will do fine in my opinion.. I knpw guys who do use them.. mainly the big 200+ gn rounds for bulls and stuff ( Lapua store bought )
. And one thing ive found breaking in a new shooter is to make them wear muffs.. Be surprised how much finch develops when they know that big crack is coming. Subsonics will still be loud but better than fullhouse loads

and chuck a pair of plugs in as well for good measure. I purchased a slip on recoil pad to help learner shooters. Take it on and off as you please. Reduces recoil a heap and It increases the length of pull and helps to prevent them getting a whack over the eye with the scope.

[stevy]

What about loading some 100-110 grain bullets just under starting load and see how they go. You can always reduce them down more. I wouldn't go below 10% downloading.

Where do you get data for such slow ones out of curiosity?

I looked at ADI powder for 110gr pills and slowest they list is Bench Mark 8208 starting load which is still 2975 fps. Tonnes above sub-sonic.

I know ADI isn't the only option. Who does the them that much slower? And you'd need something to fill heaps of case capacity right?

Is trail boss the only one?

[ailar]

and It increases the length of pull

That's always worse for me, all the rifles I've shot with aftermarket pads seem to add too much length for me and I'm stretching my neck forward to get the right eye/scope distance.

[hoofit]

10 grs of trailboss is subsonic and gives u good case volume

I'll check it out. Cheers.

[Broom]

Ballistics table for you here like I mentioned.

Range (yds) .... Drop (in) ... Velocity .... Energy
0 .................... -1.5 .......... 1041 ......... 433
100 ................. 0 .............. 991 .......... 392
200 ................. -34 ........... 949 .......... 360
300 ................. -106 ......... 913 ........... 333

Any further drop is just too far gone.

[Oldbloke]

AS-50N is roughly equivalent to Green Dot and both can be used for reduced loads but I no longer know where I got the original data. The ADI loading manual indicates the burn rates are very close. I did use AS-50N some years ago for 180 gn cast projectiles in my 3006 just for fun. Accuracy was about 1.7 moa I found my old note book & it indicates I loaded from 11.5 to 14 gr AS50N.
I think it was about 1400 fps. ( a tad fast for you) Suggest you check out a few manufacturer re-loading manuals before you try the above loads as its very old data & I don't recall where it originated from. Hope this helps.

[Warrigul]

The great CE Harris wrote a very informative article on the use of Red Dot in reduced velocity loads: http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/TheLoad.html

This article is very informative, I have copious amounts of red dot and have experimented heaps in the past, go down this path at your own peril, but there is plenty of information about (far more than when I first started-no internet).

I use hundreds of reduced cast loads in the .303 each year, cheap (25 cents each to reload) and good practice for offhand at 100m.

Trailboss is the safe (if loaded according to ADI) alternative.

Perhaps the Mods will reproduce the article here?

[yoshie]

What about loading some 100-110 grain bullets just under starting load and see how they go. You can always reduce them down more. I wouldn't go below 10% downloading.

Where do you get data for such slow ones out of curiosity?

I looked at ADI powder for 110gr pills and slowest they list is Bench Mark 8208 starting load which is still 2975 fps. Tonnes above sub-sonic.

I know ADI isn't the only option. Who does the them that much slower? And you'd need something to fill heaps of case capacity right?

Is trail boss the only one?

This kind of load won't be subsonic obviously, recoil will be mild, a lot milder than a 220g bullet that he will struggle to stabilise with normal twist rate. In the original post he states that he is getting the wife into shooting and recoil and noise is putting her off. A light load with a light bullet will be a good place to start.

[MeccaOz]

and It increases the length of pull

That's always worse for me, all the rifles I've shot with aftermarket pads seem to add too much length for me and I'm stretching my neck forward to get the right eye/scope distance.

I'm the same mate. Im a short bastard with a rotund gut. lol . Thats one reason I got the Ruger Scout. I could shorten it right down, but If my mate borrows it, him being lanky can add the spacers

[mausermate]

and It increases the length of pull

That's always worse for me, all the rifles I've shot with aftermarket pads seem to add too much length for me and I'm stretching my neck forward to get the right eye/scope distance.

I'm the same mate. Im a short bastard with a rotund gut. lol . Thats one reason I got the Ruger Scout. I could shorten it right down, but If my mate borrows it, him being lanky can add the spacers

My butt to scope eye piece measurement is normally 280mm to get good eye relief on most of my rifles in a natural position. That is about middle of the mounts for most of my scopes and rifles. I can function well between 280 and 310mm. Adding a 25mm pad when I am at 280mm does make me lean a little further forward but not to an uncomfortable level. It is only 25mm and still within my range. On some of my heavy caliber's I purposefully push the scope out to 300mm from butt to scope as a safety precaution anyway. Pretty much the same as adding a pad, wearing a shooting jacket on the range or putting a few layers on in a frosty morning.

[Norton]

On some of my heavy caliber's I purposefully push the scope out to 300mm from butt to scope as a safety precaution anyway.

That's a lesson you only need to learn once

[pip]

Trail boss for subsonic plus a bit more if needed, and ADI2206H CAN USE the 60% rule, eg use 60% of a given load. These are quite soft. But of drop but are accurate.

[Noisydad]

I'm following this thread closely as I acquired a about a thousand 150gn .308 diam. cast bullets for free and want try them in my FN Mauser 30-06.

[chookah]

I thought you were supposed to be the cast bullet pro telling us, Noisy!

[Noisydad]

Thus far I've only pushed cast bullets as fast as possible with smokeful powder not super slow with smokeless.

[chookah]

Well, get to it then

[bear foot bowhunter]

Ik this is an old thred but im pretty much looking at the same thing . hunting small blocks and taking the mrs shooting . planing on picking some trailboss up today and loading it with 185gr cast bullets . who has tried this and how did it go . by my calculation a sub 185gr bullet is in the relms of +p 9mm or higher end of 45 as far as power gose so shot placment is key

[Oldbloke]

Trail boss is definitely the go for that sort of speed.
Shotgun powders can be used between about 1200fps to 1600fps using a 180gr cast bullets. Just check out the ADI manual. Or email them.

[bear foot bowhunter]

Trail boss is definitely the go for that sort of speed.
Shotgun powders can be used between about 1200fps to 1600fps using a 180gr cast bullets. Just check out the ADI manual. Or email them.

Awsom thanks bud . has anyone run these through 1/12 twist

[Oldbloke]

Got a feeling my 3006 is 1/12.

[bigpete]

I used to run a 170gn 30-30 projectile over 9.3gn of trailboss for 1030fps. Was very accurate in my 1:10 twist but really didn't mushroom at all. Good out to 100m. Basically think 22 rimfire in trajectory

[deye243]

10 grs of trailboss is subsonic and gives u good case volume

It works the best full stop!!!Tested some out over Easter weekend great on property's were space is a issue!!!!A mate uses them on smaller blocks ,they don't open up but they still are effective!!!!

and this the reason you should never use these on smaller blocks because they bounce like a bloody rubber ball

[in2anity]

I mostly shoot 10gr Trail Boss under a 165gr hard-cast RNFP 30/30 pill for practicing high power MS - it yields about 2moa groups at 100m through my 1/11 tikka CTR. Very pleasant to shoot and your follow-through is far better due to the reduced recoil. I.e. You can see where the rounds are landing which is helpful for doping.

As Bp said I’ve hunted with it but it tends not to expand, often passing right through. That said, it still breaks down small-to-medium game; enough to follow up with a second shot if need be. Try and get a soft lead bullet if you’re using them for quite hunting.