Lead-misinformation.

[Oldbloke]

God, this s**ts me. Clearly anti-hunting agenda and trying to use lead poisoning to support it.
For those who are not aware, lead vapours are dangerous if you breath enough of them. If you ate very finely ground up lead on a regular bases, yes you would likely get lead poisoning. BUT, if you ate 3 or 4 #4 lead shot gun pellets 2 or 3 times a year the result would be zero lead poisoning. They simply pass through and almost no lead is observed by the body. It doesn't have time, it passes through too fast.

It's all related to the surface area of what is ingested and the amount. Pellets present a small surface area compared to flour sized grains of lead or vapours.(same mass)

I really wish these idiots would at least get close to the truth.

BTW, don't fill up the car with petrol, there is no safe dosage when you breath the fumes.

https://www.ehn.org/amp/lead-ammunition ... 2645108170

[disco stu]

In all fairness they do talk about the small particles in the article. But still...

They've talked about this on the meat eater podcast a bit, which I've found interesting. They had some expert on, who basically said exactly what you said in regards to solid lead. They also talked about birds grinding it up laying to issues when they eat it.

Sounds like you didn't go away

[Oldbloke]

Don't forget, bruised meat (where the bulk of the lead contamination is likely to be) is not eaten. We toss it out. And we don't normally go around eating lead shot or the remains of a mushroomed bullet.

And how much game meat does the average shooter eat? I ate rabbits for years, 90% shot with #5 shot. Probably swallowed bugger all lead over the years.

Oops, yes, if birds grind it up in the crop using sand, the size of the lead is like very fine powder, then it will be a problem.

[Oldbloke]

To clarify, the greater the surface area, the greater opportunity for absorbing the lead into the body through chemical reaction or pass through the lining of the small intestine.

Vapours pass directly into the blood stream via the lungs

[ZaineB]

In all fairness they do talk about the small particles in the article. But still...

They've talked about this on the meat eater podcast a bit, which I've found interesting. They had some expert on, who basically said exactly what you said in regards to solid lead. They also talked about birds grinding it up laying to issues when they eat it.

Sounds like you didn't go away

years ago there was an eco disaster in Esperance WA where the lead mine sent lead to port without pelleting it first, in pellet form it is not only easier to handle but is mostly inert and is very low on bioavailability. Anyway the spanners in charge sent a heap to port in multiple forms, some of which was literally just dusty ass lead, which resulted in a massive loss of birdlife and other things going on. Lead is generally low on bioavailability, but if you are shooting indoors a lot, especially with non jacketed rounds, or smelting lead for projectiles or shot or sinkers or whatever, understand that the vapor is the single most effective conduit to your bloodstream with ingesting being the second.

I have a lot of mates in parts of the world who deer hunt and they all use copper, mostly cos big high bc round that mushroom and fragment really well with high sectional density, but also because they would rather not have even some lead in the freezer, I use steel shot on animals I hunt to eat with the shotgun, but if you choose to use lead shot, my thoughts are that you arent going to ingest enough for it to negatively effect you.

[wanneroo]

I remember one time I was working for a start up company that built some ranges and the state and federal environmental people got involved.

Basically what I learned was lead was relatively inert and not harmful to the environment in solid form. As it was explained a solid chunk from a bullet could lay on the ground in the world for a millennia and it pretty much wouldn't do anything.

But in more a vapor form or lead dust from steel targets and that is when it is more an issue.

[disco stu]

On the same topic. Something I saw on Google got me reading about making your own primers (no interest, just intrigue). In there was the discussion about lead styphinate primers and people who work or spend a lot of time at indoor ranges showing elevated lead levels from the vaporized lead

[straightshooter]

I am a witness to the toxicity of lead.
I have seen many animals die almost instantly from the toxic effects of lead before my very eyes.

[Gamerancher]

I used to transport a lot of copper, lead and zinc concentrate, ( the dust form ), in tippers from various mines around NSW to both the ports for loading onto ships and to smelters, at Port Kembla, Cockle Creek ( NSW ), Broken Hill, Mt Isa and Port Pirie. Never saw any pelletized or even heard of it being done. Most is transported by rail but we used to get the contracts when that failed ( often ) or there was a push to get a boat loaded. With the lead, we used to have to wait in a sealed room while our trucks were loaded, wear a mask ( pre-covid ), overalls to tarp up and have a shower before we left. Unloading, we just dumped and drove off. Some places had good showers that I made use of, but others had no facilities. ( # 6 wharf at Pt Kembla was just a shed at the time ) I can remember coughing up black flem after carting lead for about two weeks where we were just dumping it on the side of the railway line in S.A, no facilities for showering until we got back to the mine in Cobar. ( about 7+ hours away ) Between the dust on the ground and the lead concentrate, the cloud of black dust when we tipped was so thick that traffic ( if any ), on the highway sometimes stopped. We were basically in the middle of nowhere, ( Manna Hill ) the rail line had washed away in a flood, we had to get it Adelaide side of the wash-away so they could load up the train for port.
We had regular blood tests for heavy metals and I never had a problem. One bloke had an elevated test result and had to avoid the work for 3 months.
I'll bet with the current OH&S regimes, things would be different now.

[Oldbloke]

On the same topic. Something I saw on Google got me reading about making your own primers (no interest, just intrigue). In there was the discussion about lead styphinate primers and people who work or spend a lot of time at indoor ranges showing elevated lead levels from the vaporized lead

Yes, that hazard is well known in the industry.
Would never be an issue for hunters tho.

[Harrynsw]

When I was 5 years old me and my little brother used to sit in the back yard with dad melting lead in an old cooking pot to cast sinkers for fishing....used to smell great...

[Die Judicii]

Heh,, I just had a dastardly thought.
But then dismissed it straight away,, because I know that all the powers to be have done the right thing.

Of course,, after each and every major war at each and every point of the globe,,,,, they went out and picked up every single
chunk of splattered lead and recycled them safely.

My God,,,,,,,,,, the fields of France etc must've taken a long time to clean up.

[wanneroo]

Heh,, I just had a dastardly thought.
But then dismissed it straight away,, because I know that all the powers to be have done the right thing.

Of course,, after each and every major war at each and every point of the globe,,,,, they went out and picked up every single
chunk of splattered lead and recycled them safely.

My God,,,,,,,,,, the fields of France etc must've taken a long time to clean up.

In France and Belgium they still have no go zones called "red zones" where there is still so much unexploded ordinance and pollution from chemical weapons, that they technically keep people out and have let these places get overgrown.

[NTSOG]

G'day,

Don't forget that house paints used to contain lead. In 1979 I taught at a special school in Chicago. One of my students, a lad called Jeff was aged 15 and was quite severely mentally retarded/intellectually impaired and also classically autistic. He was born to a 13 year old girl whose family lived on the South Side of Chicago in what was described in welfare reports as 'slum housing'. His young mother, lacking parenting skills, frequently left her neurologically intact, i.e. normal, baby in his cot against a wall. Jeff, being a normally active little boy, but being neglected and having nothing to do, licked and ate the paint on the wall over several years thus becoming brain-damaged due to ingestion of lead.

Jim

[disco stu]

That's a bloody sad story

[Oldbloke]

"licked and ate the paint on the cot over several years thus becoming brain-damaged due to ingestion of lead."

Yes, sad.

Lead paint on cots was an issue in AU also. That's because it is not lead as we know it. Oxide I think and easily absorbed by the body. Children are at particular risk because their brain is still growing.