New Yank/AU submarines coming sooner or later

[Oldbloke]

Well, I reckon this is a good move. We should have just purchased off the shelf nukes in the first place. And vertical tubes loaded. Stupid trying to build/buy diesel/electric.

We should just buy 2 or 3 now and build the rest ASAP, IMO.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-16/ ... /100465814

[allthegearandnoidea]

Hi Oldbloke
I thought it was great news at first too but after digesting a lot of information today on media I’m pretty underwhelmed
All we seem to be getting is an agreement by US and UK to be able to purchase nuclear reactors to power a sub - we will be building our own subs in SA.
Also the Yanks will service the reactor if we buy theirs because they will not provide security clearance for certain technical aspects.
We will also be reliant on fuel from US
as we do not and will not produce our own
Furthermore we will not produce a sub before 2040
The Chinese can produce one per year.

[on_one_wheel]

We've had a little practice building subs with the Collins Class submarines.

Good to see the investment being mostly Au.

Also read that NZ won't allow them in to their waters due to neuclaphobia.

[boingk]

Best part is, whole point of a nuke sub is clandestine naval operations...

...so how they gonna know?

Seriously though, great move for us. The french deal was never going to work. 2.4 bil down the sucker, but probably saved that in the long term by ditching it.

- boingk

[pilotsignal]

Subs are not important, the new Indo-Pacific alliance is.

[No1Mk3]

G'day boingk,
They will know, I can guarantee that. NZ is a specialist A/S Fleet, my brother spent 20 years as an anti-sub warfare officer.

[wanneroo]

The point of it is to streamline logistics between the our countries. In WW2, submarines sank most of the tonnage, other ships including carriers were not even close.

Australia knows that if China over the next 10-30 years starts to swallow up much of the Pacific, Australia will be next.

[womble]

Yeah awesome we’ll have 8 submarines in 25 years time.
How good are submarines.
Take that China.
Yeah you better be afraid.

[Insert random name]

Who'd a thunk The Experts would be wrong about the French-designed hulls that needed to be redesigned from nuke power to diesel power? Now when do we get the figures on how much the experts cost the taxpayer over the last few years of blatherings, only to go with what most already knew was a better option?

[cz515]

Looks like a great deal for America/UK.

Yay in 20 years Australia will build a submarine..... by then how many subs will China have. All they need to do is park two on east coast in the next 20 years and threaten to launch a nuclear strike our 80,000 defence force personnel will just s**t their pants, let alone the people.

After we build our first sub... it will cost us billions in cost over runs, and still not be able to fire a nuclear missile.

On the other hand, the most NZ can lay claim is 200miles of their shore..... and the oceans are a big

Edit. Not saying nuclear is bad. Compared to diesel electric... they are definitely better, and I would rather we have a nuclear powered sub... but more the pointlessness of thinking we can last more than a day against China.

I rather we spent this money on a covid specialist hospital in every state capital

[cleger]

Looks like a great deal for America/UK.

Yay in 20 years Australia will build a submarine..... by then how many subs will China have. All they need to do is park two on east coast in the next 20 years and threaten to launch a nuclear strike our 80,000 defence force personnel will just s**t their pants, let alone the people.

After we build our first sub... it will cost us billions in cost over runs, and still not be able to fire a nuclear missile.

On the other hand, the most NZ can lay claim is 200miles of their shore..... and the oceans are a big

Edit. Not saying nuclear is bad. Compared to diesel electric... they are definitely better, and I would rather we have a nuclear powered sub... but more the pointlessness of thinking we can last more than a day against China.

I don't remember this sort of attitude coming from Australians when I was there. Now that I think of it, I was at a bar one night, and when the conversation turned to realpolitik, a bunch of Aussies declared almost in unison that anyone who attacked a Commonwealth country was [expletive that starts with "f"]. I remember thinking they were right.

It will be at least a century before the Chinese dare even dream of laying a hand on Australia. In that context, twenty years is nothing.

And re: the title of this thread, they'll be Australian submarines.

[Bugman]

Once built and delivered, I would be checking all over the things for three little words "Made in China".

[Bill]

I'll just leave this here LOL Collins Class Sub beating the Yankies in war games.

https://youtu.be/nqFVOL7mLd4

and for a giggle Australian Defense Policy explained

https://youtu.be/MTCqXlDjx18

[Bugman]

That is "Indo-Pacific" fkn funny. Love it.

[ZaineB]

good diesel subs are ww2 tech, why the hell would we want such antiquated surrender monkey crap. we have plenty of uranium here, perfect choice.

[Bill]

That is "Indo-Pacific" fkn funny. Love it.

So what are we protecting ? Indo Asia Pacific Strategic Interests !!

I suspect that not only will we have Nuclear Subs but as we will probably also have a small number of new Lithium Sulfur battery/Diesel Subs for the really stealthy stuff.

[ZaineB]

That is "Indo-Pacific" fkn funny. Love it.

So what are we protecting ? Indo Asia Pacific Strategic Interests !!

I suspect that not only will we have Nuclear Subs but as we will probably also have a small number of new Lithium Sulfur battery/Diesel Subs for the really stealthy stuff.

If we're talking Gotland style then sure, but anything less than that as a standard would be probably no better than anything else.

[No1Mk3]

Looks like the $500 Million parting fee we have to pay France may go skywards. Biggest issue for Naval Group was the 60% local content rule, now our Gumbiment has agreed to cut that to 40% for US/UK contractors France reckons it's unfair they weren't allowed to bid again at the lower local content ruling. Add that to the change of propulsion requirement from D/E to Nuke, which they could have just used current "off the shelf" designs of their own to build, hell even their SNA-72's would do us and they knocke them out in 8 months, not decades, and they are sniffing compensation. Interesting times.

[cz515]

Ahhh there you go..... our politicians are donkeys

[deye243]

Well, I reckon this is a good move. We should have just purchased off the shelf nukes in the first place. And vertical tubes loaded. Stupid trying to build/buy diesel/electric.

We should just buy 2 or 3 now and build the rest ASAP, IMO.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-16/ ... /100465814

Somehow old bloke I don't think you should have put soon in your title 10 years before they start we don't have any Body trained up in our ADF at the moment so 10 years to start building plus all the f*** Wittery that goes on with governments so looking at 20 years before we get 1 and this country would probably be another state of China by then

[Oldbloke]

WTF, 20 years before we get them. We need them yesterday.

Starting to sound like another ADF procurement or Slomo fuc up

[womble]

Don’t know why we can’t just train up some dolphins. We have heaps of dolphins here. And they will work for pilchards.
As in cheap labour we can actually afford. Not 90 billion in debt
Just get them to deliver mines with magnets, stick them on anything with chink writing on the hull.
Too easy. There we go i solved another thread, next

[No1Mk3]

Don’t know why we can’t just train up some dolphins. We have heaps of dolphins here. And they will work for pilchards.
As in cheap labour we can actually afford. Not 90 billion in debt
Just get them to deliver mines with magnets, stick them on anything with chink writing on the hull.
Too easy. There we go i solved another thread, next

Problem is this has been tried already, didn't work as some of the slackers just took off with their bang-bangs and were never seen again (sold on the black market to a dodgy looking squid?) whilst another, which may of had persecution issues, attached his mine to a friendly ship. USN abandoned this idea decades ago. Just pack TNT into a bag and call Uber, no sweat.

[Insert random name]

I wonder how many drone subs could be left around the coast in wait and started up with an xbox, upgraded as the tech gets better for the cost of a few major subs.

[deye243]

WTF, 20 years before we get them. We need them yesterday.

Starting to sound like another ADF procurement or Slomo fuc up

Yep I agree and so does Cate McGregor she said last night on Sky News we should already have Personnel on their way to America for training need to have her as our Defence minister

[cz515]

WTF, 20 years before we get them. We need them yesterday.

Starting to sound like another ADF procurement or Slomo fuc up

No one read my comment them

[bigrich]

Best part is, whole point of a nuke sub is clandestine naval operations...

...so how they gonna know?

Seriously though, great move for us. The french deal was never going to work. 2.4 bil down the sucker, but probably saved that in the long term by ditching it.

- boingk

probably saved a lot more than that , cost blow outs in these sorts of deals are a given . trying to re engineer a nuke sub back to deisel/electric is nuts

[bigrich]

The point of it is to streamline logistics between the our countries. In WW2, submarines sank most of the tonnage, other ships including carriers were not even close.

Australia knows that if China over the next 10-30 years starts to swallow up much of the Pacific, Australia will be next.

agree . the other thing about this deal is apparently australia is getting tommahawk anti ship missle systems on our navy destroyers ,as well as aircraft and land based missle systems , underwater drones and AI technology . when you add that to the german rheinmetal plants in queensland building munitions, and the advanced tank manufacturing plant at ipswich things are ramping up considerably

the australian millitary has been stagnent for a long time in terms of latest technology and capabilities . that's changing very quickly . i find it appaling the attitudes of some in our society who are defeatist in taking a stance at protecting the soverignty of our country and it's people . we don't have to win against china, we just have to pose the threat of giving them a mauling . the one thing asians hate is losing face
but we're not alone. expect to see more british and commonwealth forces training here , just like the US marines already do . our asian neihbours are being bullied from their traditional fishing grounds ,among other things , to the point that indoneisia is allowing the US to build a coast gaurd/naval base on it's soil . there's a lot of ground breaking stuff going on at the moment , the world does not want a repeat of 1939 when faliure to act let the nazi's have their way . increased millitary and political cooperation with japan and india is further ralling allies against the chinese threats

i would not be suprised if very soon we end up with some older yank subs to bolster our forces . if i can think of these things i doubt it has gone unoticed from our leaders . we are cutting off our dependance from china for exports and imports , the UK is back on the scene and i expect to see more of our export market going to them . the 50's and 60's were a golden period for australia because of this market and it's coming back . the chinese are becoming more control freak and hardcore propoganda on their own people and the current regime is becoming more like north korea

after the announcment of the aukus pact i saw the leader of the greens on the tv saying they would oppose it f@ckwits

[bigrich]

Don’t know why we can’t just train up some dolphins. We have heaps of dolphins here. And they will work for pilchards.
As in cheap labour we can actually afford. Not 90 billion in debt
Just get them to deliver mines with magnets, stick them on anything with chink writing on the hull.
Too easy. There we go i solved another thread, next

the yanks and especially the russians have been working on this since the 1960's google it , amazing stuff

[Oldbloke]

The point of it is to streamline logistics between the our countries. In WW2, submarines sank most of the tonnage, other ships including carriers were not even close.

Australia knows that if China over the next 10-30 years starts to swallow up much of the Pacific, Australia will be next.

agree . the other thing about this deal is apparently australia is getting tommahawk anti ship missle systems on our navy destroyers ,as well as aircraft and land based missle systems , underwater drones and AI technology . when you add that to the german rheinmetal plants in queensland building munitions, and the advanced tank manufacturing plant at ipswich things are ramping up considerably

the australian millitary has been stagnent for a long time in terms of latest technology and capabilities . that's changing very quickly . i find it appaling the attitudes of some in our society who are defeatist in taking a stance at protecting the soverignty of our country and it's people . we don't have to win against china, we just have to pose the threat of giving them a mauling . the one thing asians hate is losing face
but we're not alone. expect to see more british and commonwealth forces training here , just like the US marines already do . our asian neihbours are being bullied from their traditional fishing grounds ,among other things , to the point that indoneisia is allowing the US to build a coast gaurd/naval base on it's soil . there's a lot of ground breaking stuff going on at the moment , the world does not want a repeat of 1939 when faliure to act let the nazi's have their way . increased millitary and political cooperation with japan and india is further ralling allies against the chinese threats

i would not be suprised if very soon we end up with some older yank subs to bolster our forces . if i can think of these things i doubt it has gone unoticed from our leaders . we are cutting off our dependance from china for exports and imports , the UK is back on the scene and i expect to see more of our export market going to them . the 50's and 60's were a golden period for australia because of this market and it's coming back . the chinese are becoming more control freak and hardcore propoganda on their own people and the current regime is becoming more like north korea

after the announcment of the aukus pact i saw the leader of the greens on the tv saying they would oppose it f@ckwits

Agree.

Just for interest China has about 50 or 60 subs. 5 or 6 are nuclear. They are building 2 a year. Yanks about the same.

And we should never have signed the French deal. To down grade the subs to d/e was simply put,,,,stupid.

9 or 10 subs is all we need if they have a few mushroom makers on board. In a major conflict just 1 sub needs to survive to screw all the major cities in China. Will make them think very carefully before trying to screw us.