Re: Confused with a magazine

[pilotsignal]

Hi Guys,

My Winchester XPR 223 has a magaine, which is 5 rounds capacity, as I was expilcetely told by a local seller.
However, looking at the official Winchester website, 223 XPR rifle comes with 3 rounds magazine and the picture of it matchs my mag exactly.
I am a bit confused to say at least, as I am able to load 5 rounds in it, bit 4th and 5th are quite hard to push in, but still doable.
So, I wonder is XPR standard mag is 3 or 5 rounds capacity?
On top of that, during target shooting today, after about 60-80 rounds shot, I started getting feeding problems almost every time. It was 2-3 rounds been pushed up inside the chamber at the same time.
If I push the mag platform down with my finger it also, gets stuck. You can see the picture attached below.
So, I wonder whether I damaged the mag by feding 5 rounds instead of 3 (if it is 3 rounds capacity) or it is a defective mag?

[bladeracer]

I'm not familiar with the rifle, but that looks like it's going need disassembly to check the spring isn't twisted.

The Winchester site may be wrong also, they may sell it with 3rd mags in certain markets, generally with the standard mag blocked to suit. Perhaps yours was 3rd but you've broken the restrictor, but I would start by contacting the dealer and try having it replaced under warranty.

When the Ruger Americans came out they had 5rd top-load rotary mags, but some had problems. My .204 mag had feed issues, I don't recall what but I'm sure I would've posted about it here. When I contacted the importer they suggested it was my fault as I had been top-loading the mag, and they had a lot of trouble because of this. Except I had never top-loaded it, mainly because it never occurred to me to try shoving the rounds straight down through the feed lips. They were wrong of course, and Ruger knew that batch of mags were a problem. They had already brought out a new design, and when I received it I discovered it happily held six rounds, and top-loading was pretty neat for a single-feed mag.

[pomemax]

Chamber 223Rem
Stock Description Black Synthetic Polymer Stock
Barrel Chromoly Steel Barrel. Recessed Target Style Crown
Receiver Matte Blued Steel Receiver
Magazine Capacity 5 Detachable Box Magazine
Trigger MOA Trigger
Safety Two Position Safety
Sights Drilled and tapped for mounts
Recoil Pad Inflex Technology Recoil Pad
20 seconds in google

[Die Judicii]

I have no experience with this rifle at all, but just going by your description I'd hazard a guess that it is only intended to take 3 rnds.
Sure, you may well fit (force) another 2 rnds in it,,,,,,,,,, and probably weaken and or damage the spring.
Hence, a probable cause of the developing feed issues.

[bladeracer]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6358&p=96043#p96043

Found my first post about the Ruger magazine issue I was having - third round from the bottom would jam even if I only loaded three.

[Oldbloke]

Try warranty first.

Or.

If its easy to disassemble, do that and have a look. Often it's a simple fix.

P.S. often info on web sites is wrong but you were feeding 5. So, my bet is it's 5rd

[pilotsignal]

Chamber 223Rem
Stock Description Black Synthetic Polymer Stock
Barrel Chromoly Steel Barrel. Recessed Target Style Crown
Receiver Matte Blued Steel Receiver
Magazine Capacity 5 Detachable Box Magazine
Trigger MOA Trigger
Safety Two Position Safety
Sights Drilled and tapped for mounts
Recoil Pad Inflex Technology Recoil Pad
20 seconds in google

Please see attached screen for my mag. That was made me confused.

[pilotsignal]

Try warranty first.

Or.

If its easy to disassemble, do that and have a look. Often it's a simple fix.

P.S. often info on web sites is wrong but you were feeding 5. So, my bet is it's 5rd

I disassembled the mag and found nothing wrong, i.e. nothing is broken I could see. But, the spring's bottom is not fixed in one position and shifts sidewise easily. Evrthing seems too loose and I guess that causes the top platform to jam inside the mag.
I am not really sure as I am not an expert . Pretty bad.
I think, I'd better buy a new mag or even go to higher capacity with 10 rnds, perhaps.
My shooting is rather fast and 5, let alone 3 rounds are way too few to my style.

Thanks Guys.

[pilotsignal]

Today, I took my mag to the shop for inspection. No problem found.
However, I have noticed that a bullet tip is also gets squashed/deformed when cocking. Any idea what may be wrong?
Talking to a salesman gets me nowhere

20211110_184200.jpg (137.32 KiB) Viewed 7895 times

[bladeracer]

Today, I took my mag to the shop for inspection. No problem found.
However, I have noticed that a bullet tip is also gets squashed/deformed when cocking. Any idea what may be wrong?
Talking to a salesman gets me nowhere

20211110_184200.jpg

Wow, that's pretty bad.
You'd have to spend some time cycling rounds through it until you can identify the issue.
As it went 60+ rounds without issue I'd be looking for something that's changed, either worn, broken, bent or dirty, including the magazine latch and well. That would be easier to do if you had a functional mag to compare to though.
Have you dropped the mag and bent a feed lip perhaps?
If you only load one round does it cycle okay?
What about two rounds and so?
Mine would misfeed the same third round from the top, regardless of whether I loaded three or five. With only two rounds in the mag it cycled just fine.

Have you tried different ammo with BT's or HP bullets? It might be the soft-point is getting mashed in the magazine under recoil, and that causes the feed issue.

[pomemax]

WINCHESTER XPR 223REM MAGAZINE 5RND
ID: U3575708AA
$79.95 (Inc GST)
I think I can see where you are getting 3 rounds from re: the mag a 6.5 prc IS 3 rounds and a .223 is 5 rounds.
Even tho its a polymer mag lube the sides of the carrier slightly when its empty it should sit at the top flush not on angle so it must be binding on sides .

[bladeracer]

WINCHESTER XPR 223REM MAGAZINE 5RND
ID: U3575708AA
$79.95 (Inc GST)
I think I can see where you are getting 3 rounds from re: the mag a 6.5 prc IS 3 rounds and a .223 is 5 rounds.
Even tho its a polymer mag lube the sides of the carrier slightly when its empty it should sit at the top flush not on angle so it must be binding on sides .

Good point about the polymer, some of my AICS mags improved with some smoothing out of contact surfaces.

[pilotsignal]

Today, I took my mag to the shop for inspection. No problem found.
However, I have noticed that a bullet tip is also gets squashed/deformed when cocking. Any idea what may be wrong?
Talking to a salesman gets me nowhere

20211110_184200.jpg

Wow, that's pretty bad.
You'd have to spend some time cycling rounds through it until you can identify the issue.
As it went 60+ rounds without issue I'd be looking for something that's changed, either worn, broken, bent or dirty, including the magazine latch and well. That would be easier to do if you had a functional mag to compare to though.
Have you dropped the mag and bent a feed lip perhaps?
If you only load one round does it cycle okay?
What about two rounds and so?
Mine would misfeed the same third round from the top, regardless of whether I loaded three or five. With only two rounds in the mag it cycled just fine.

Have you tried different ammo with BT's or HP bullets? It might be the soft-point is getting mashed in the magazine under recoil, and that causes the feed issue.

Basically, nothing changed, only rounds. I started with PMC and then moved to Federals and Winchester. I think it started jamming when I switch to Federal rounds, but cannot be 100% sure. Could different brands ammo behave differently??
I have been cycling rounds all evening today like an idiot it did jam just couple of times but, this is how I noticed that bullet deformation issue. The magazine looks quite cheap, all plastic and bullets are not fixed inside, i.e. they can be moved back and forward. Since, I did not have any previous experience with this rifle (only with AK-47 and that was very solid weapon) I am not sure if it is OK or not. If that would be metal mag, I could bend lips or something to adjust delivery angle, but not with plastic, of course.
BTW, with your problem with third round, do you recon it is Mag issue or a rifle itself?
I am basically lost. Guy in the shop could not also help

[pilotsignal]

WINCHESTER XPR 223REM MAGAZINE 5RND
ID: U3575708AA
$79.95 (Inc GST)
I think I can see where you are getting 3 rounds from re: the mag a 6.5 prc IS 3 rounds and a .223 is 5 rounds.
Even tho its a polymer mag lube the sides of the carrier slightly when its empty it should sit at the top flush not on angle so it must be binding on sides .

Do you mean vertical plane angle or horisontal ?

[bladeracer]

I wouldn't expect to have issues between brands of ammo, but different bullet designs can certainly cause feed issues. And a feed issue could result in damaging the magazine. Cartridges bouncing backwards and forwards can damage polymer and lead pointed bullets, but is less of a problem with hollow-point bullets, and I don't think it's an issue at all with military FMJ bullets.

Try some of the PMC ammo you started with and see if you still have issues. If not then the magazine is probably not actually damaged, just not compatible with the SP bullet.

My issue with the Ruger mag was a design fault causing the follower to change its angle when only three rounds were compressing it. Designing a magazine to feed reliably under the large variation in spring pressure between one round loaded and five rounds loaded is an art as much as it is science

Today, I took my mag to the shop for inspection. No problem found.
However, I have noticed that a bullet tip is also gets squashed/deformed when cocking. Any idea what may be wrong?
Talking to a salesman gets me nowhere

20211110_184200.jpg

Wow, that's pretty bad.
You'd have to spend some time cycling rounds through it until you can identify the issue.
As it went 60+ rounds without issue I'd be looking for something that's changed, either worn, broken, bent or dirty, including the magazine latch and well. That would be easier to do if you had a functional mag to compare to though.
Have you dropped the mag and bent a feed lip perhaps?
If you only load one round does it cycle okay?
What about two rounds and so?
Mine would misfeed the same third round from the top, regardless of whether I loaded three or five. With only two rounds in the mag it cycled just fine.

Have you tried different ammo with BT's or HP bullets? It might be the soft-point is getting mashed in the magazine under recoil, and that causes the feed issue.

Basically, nothing changed, only rounds. I started with PMC and then moved to Federals and Winchester. I think it started jamming when I switch to Federal rounds, but cannot be 100% sure. Could different brands ammo behave differently??
I have been cycling rounds all evening today like an idiot it did jam just couple of times but, this is how I noticed that bullet deformation issue. The magazine looks quite cheap, all plastic and bullets are not fixed inside, i.e. they can be moved back and forward. Since, I did not have any previous experience with this rifle (only with AK-47 and that was very solid weapon) I am not sure if it is OK or not. If that would be metal mag, I could bend lips or something to adjust delivery angle, but not with plastic, of course.
BTW, with your problem with third round, do you recon it is Mag issue or a rifle itself?
I am basically lost. Guy in the shop could not also help

[bladeracer]

Hi Guys,

My Winchester XPR 223 has a magaine, which is 5 rounds capacity, as I was expilcetely told by a local seller.
However, looking at the official Winchester website, 223 XPR rifle comes with 3 rounds magazine and the picture of it matchs my mag exactly.
I am a bit confused to say at least, as I am able to load 5 rounds in it, bit 4th and 5th are quite hard to push in, but still doable.
So, I wonder is XPR standard mag is 3 or 5 rounds capacity?
On top of that, during target shooting today, after about 60-80 rounds shot, I started getting feeding problems almost every time. It was 2-3 rounds been pushed up inside the chamber at the same time.
If I push the mag platform down with my finger it also, gets stuck. You can see the picture attached below.
So, I wonder whether I damaged the mag by feding 5 rounds instead of 3 (if it is 3 rounds capacity) or it is a defective mag?

Is it possible the mag has been disassembled and reassembled with the spring backwards?

[pilotsignal]

No, it is impossible to insert spring backwards by design.

[pilotsignal]

Thank you for your such a good help. I am also tending to blame the magazine. It is really looking bad and sloppy.
I am looking at getting Waters Rifleman magazine which I hope will solve my feeding problem.

I wouldn't expect to have issues between brands of ammo, but different bullet designs can certainly cause feed issues. And a feed issue could result in damaging the magazine. Cartridges bouncing backwards and forwards can damage polymer and lead pointed bullets, but is less of a problem with hollow-point bullets, and I don't think it's an issue at all with military FMJ bullets.

Try some of the PMC ammo you started with and see if you still have issues. If not then the magazine is probably not actually damaged, just not compatible with the SP bullet.

My issue with the Ruger mag was a design fault causing the follower to change its angle when only three rounds were compressing it. Designing a magazine to feed reliably under the large variation in spring pressure between one round loaded and five rounds loaded is an art as much as it is science

Today, I took my mag to the shop for inspection. No problem found.
However, I have noticed that a bullet tip is also gets squashed/deformed when cocking. Any idea what may be wrong?
Talking to a salesman gets me nowhere

20211110_184200.jpg

Wow, that's pretty bad.
You'd have to spend some time cycling rounds through it until you can identify the issue.
As it went 60+ rounds without issue I'd be looking for something that's changed, either worn, broken, bent or dirty, including the magazine latch and well. That would be easier to do if you had a functional mag to compare to though.
Have you dropped the mag and bent a feed lip perhaps?
If you only load one round does it cycle okay?
What about two rounds and so?
Mine would misfeed the same third round from the top, regardless of whether I loaded three or five. With only two rounds in the mag it cycled just fine.

Have you tried different ammo with BT's or HP bullets? It might be the soft-point is getting mashed in the magazine under recoil, and that causes the feed issue.

Basically, nothing changed, only rounds. I started with PMC and then moved to Federals and Winchester. I think it started jamming when I switch to Federal rounds, but cannot be 100% sure. Could different brands ammo behave differently??
I have been cycling rounds all evening today like an idiot it did jam just couple of times but, this is how I noticed that bullet deformation issue. The magazine looks quite cheap, all plastic and bullets are not fixed inside, i.e. they can be moved back and forward. Since, I did not have any previous experience with this rifle (only with AK-47 and that was very solid weapon) I am not sure if it is OK or not. If that would be metal mag, I could bend lips or something to adjust delivery angle, but not with plastic, of course.
BTW, with your problem with third round, do you recon it is Mag issue or a rifle itself?
I am basically lost. Guy in the shop could not also help

[pomemax]

horisontal ?

[pilotsignal]

horisontal ?

Yes, left-right in horizontal plane or up-down in vertical.
The spring platform moves in both axis horizontal and vertical.

20211111_091146.jpg (71.06 KiB) Viewed 7807 times

20211111_091220.jpg (144.71 KiB) Viewed 7807 times

[Oldbloke]

Dont take wrong way. Hope your removing the firing pin feeding that many live rounds through it. At home I'm assuming.

Complain to winchester AU. Not fit for purpose.

[pomemax]

The carrier has moved forward and jumped top of the Guide rails the cut out in the carrier should run over very slight rails in side hold the front of carrier and twist and push to the back push down on it at same time

[Die Judicii]

What BLADE said about differing ammo, as in, brands, overall round length, and projectile type, can all cause problems in some rifles.
I have experienced similar issues that you speak of,, although not the same brand you have.

I have a Sako that kept jamming like yours when I changed to HP rounds.
Gunsmith did a little number on it with a dremel,,, and now it functions flawlessly regardless of which rounds or brands I feed into it.

[bladeracer]

What BLADE said about differing ammo, as in, brands, overall round length, and projectile type, can all cause problems in some rifles.
I have experienced similar issues that you speak of,, although not the same brand you have.

I have a Sako that kept jamming like yours when I changed to HP rounds.
Gunsmith did a little number on it with a dremel,,, and now it functions flawlessly regardless of which rounds or brands I feed into it.

I don't recall the rifle, but I have had issues with large hollow points having a sharp edge getting caught on tiny burrs in the feed system. Soft-points can deform but tend to self lubricate to some degree.

[pilotsignal]

What BLADE said about differing ammo, as in, brands, overall round length, and projectile type, can all cause problems in some rifles.
I have experienced similar issues that you speak of,, although not the same brand you have.

I have a Sako that kept jamming like yours when I changed to HP rounds.
Gunsmith did a little number on it with a dremel,,, and now it functions flawlessly regardless of which rounds or brands I feed into it.

I am trying to get a new (good) mag and then exclude that variable from the equation. If no help, then I must find such a good gunsmith as you have (if I only knew one in Sydney )

[Die Judicii]

PM sent.

If your convinced it is the mag/spring that is causing the problem,,,,,, and your not trying to get a refund for the mag,,,,,,,
I'd pull it apart,,,,,,, roughen up the surface where the spring base sits,,, and araldite (or similar) the base of the spring in a nice
centralized position,,,,, if that is possible.
Depending on how it all goes back together I suppose.

[pilotsignal]

The saga continues!
I have received a replacement magazine from the seller shop and also purchased a high capacity metal (original is plastic) 10 rounds mag from Waters Rifleman. Not trying to ads this company, but mag looks quite good and solid.
Went on range last weekend and started to play with 4 different ammos.
3 out of 4 continue to jam! I had several guys around me trying to pinpoint the issue, but with no luck. Some said it was ammo problem, some magazzine and one guy agreed that might be a rifle issue. I am quite gratefull to everyone was trying to help!
Nevertheless, what I dug out that one brand which was sort of OK had longer OAL - 2.25" vs others 2.18"
I was told that those 2mm could make all the difference in feeding issue.
Anyway, I contacted my seller again and he was going to get in touch with Winchester (now after Christmas, I am afraid) and try on another standard issue mag. Then, if no help I will be blaming my brand new Winchester XPR.
Bloody long story of unhappiness

[Oldbloke]

Very sympathetic. You would think after about 100 years manufactures would be able to get it right. Especially with the equipment now available to them.