dnedative wrote:I cant see the LECC doing anything, it exists to investigate serious criminal misconduct not administrative issues. They will handball it back to the police and it will probably end up as a decision for the commissioner to make and I reckon anything to do with a pistol that hits his desk these days gets scratched.
jwai86 wrote:Fortunately, it will be the commission that gets to make that call, not you. Don't bother replying if you are incapable of not coming off as a condescending tool.
Fionn wrote:jwai86 wrote:Fortunately, it will be the commission that gets to make that call, not you. Don't bother replying if you are incapable of not coming off as a condescending tool.
The commission has no power to make NSW Police do anything on this matter except to get them to give an explanation for their actions.
There is an almost zero chance you will get a licence unless NSW Police stuff up.
There is no time limit within the legislation that they are require to give a decision by. So your compliant will be forwarded to NSW Police and you will get a response ranging from, Refused - delayed due to COVID etc though to the matter is under investigation.
As I said before, be careful about walking yourself into an offence as Its not uncommon at all for mentally ill people to try and get access to firearms for a number of reasons, but once identified it flags an investigation and your P650 issues would be a concern.
Oh an if you don't like my posts because they aren't telling you what you want to hear, add me to your ignore list
bladeracer wrote:I don't like your posts because you _consistently_ tell people that mental illness makes you ineligible to hold a licence or access firearms, which is garbage. Only very specific mental illnesses are an issue.
Fionn wrote:bladeracer wrote:I don't like your posts because you _consistently_ tell people that mental illness makes you ineligible to hold a licence or access firearms, which is garbage. Only very specific mental illnesses are an issue.
I consistently tell people because that is the position the NSW police take and by the way the refusal is for not being a fit and proper person or of unsound mind which definition is far boarder then the definition of mental illness.
NSW Police stance is well documented if you cared to do some research.
But, happy to explore your argument, where in the legislation does it list which "very specific mental illness" it applies to or any mental illness in fact?
bladeracer wrote:I posted it online for you in the last discussion you tried this in.
https://enoughgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=16688&p=289839#p289772
"It asks if "f) In the past 12 months been treated or referred for treatment for alcoholism, drug dependence or
a mental illness within the meaning of the Mental Health Act 2007 or as a mentally disordered
person within the meaning of that Act?"
Under the Act this means "In NSW, the Mental Health Act 2007 defines mental illness as a “condition that seriously impairs, either temporarily or permanently, the mental functioning of a person and is characterised by the presence in the person of any one or more of the following symptoms: (a) delusions (b) hallucinations (c) serious disorder of thought form (d) a severe disturbance of mood (e) sustained or repeated irrational behaviour indicating the presence of any one or more of the symptoms referred to above”."
Fionn wrote:That's for a P650, I am talking about a licence application, two completely separate things.
Licence applications are rejected (in context) either for not being a fit and proper person or for being of unsound mind, neither of which are defined in the act so rely on common/case law.
These are complex areas of law that are challenged and decided in the Supreme or High Court.
So as to your argument, where in the legislation does it state which "very specific mental illness" it applies to (or any mental illness) that needs to be considered in a licence application as you only need to meet the fit and proper person requirement and the not of unsound mind.
I would love to know what "very specific mental illness" it applies too? is their time limits on when diagnosed? last episode? do you need a sane certificate?
Now unsound mind generally means a state of mental disease or natural mental infirmity, but as its not defined in the Act its open to a broader interruption then this.
But it could include, Autism, ADHD, OCD, Depression, PTSD to name a few.
Fit and proper person is also very broad, but thanks to Mr Bond (no not 007) its been tested in the high court, but doesn't really help in this scenario.
Also have you researched NSW Police position on Mental illness and firearm owners of late? A lot has changed in recent years.
bladeracer wrote:So you are sticking with your "any mental illness" excludes somebody from holding a licence, though you agree it is not defined in the law anyway?
I disagree, there are mental illnesses that are irrelevant.
Larry wrote:So bad luck to the OP whao asked that it not descend to this and ftom Fionn from making any further comment.
Mods lock it up again.
Larry wrote:So bad luck to the OP whao asked that it not descend to this and ftom Fionn from making any further comment.
Mods lock it up again.
jwai86 wrote:Meanwhile, my PPL application still remains undecided, and attempts to follow it up with the Firearms Registry have gone nowhere. As much as a decision is highly unlikely to be in my favour, I see no reason to concede while none has been made.
bullzeye wrote:jwai86 wrote:Meanwhile, my PPL application still remains undecided, and attempts to follow it up with the Firearms Registry have gone nowhere. As much as a decision is highly unlikely to be in my favour, I see no reason to concede while none has been made.
If you don't want to concede yet, then renewing your club membership is the way to go.
Unfortunately if you have been rejected for Cat A/B, they wouldn't approve a PPL/ Cat H license unless they do so in error.
Larry wrote:IMHO you should appeal the decision of your Cat A/B License. They give you 28 days I think to lodge an application. Start with the A/B and get it appealed its your best bet otherwise you are ineligible to apply for 2 years. Then you will have to answer the question Have you ever been refused a license with a yes which will always put you in the hard basket to be examined.
bigrich wrote:......could there be legitamate grounds for the application being rejected ?
jwai86 wrote:I would have done so already if I had the money to burn on a lawyer to help me run an appeal through the relevant tribunal. I spoke to a lawyer earlier about this, and he estimated an appeal would cost around $10,000, and the odds of success would still be low.
bigrich wrote:i've breifly scanned the previous posts , but on what grounds has the A/B license application been rejected ? has a reason been given ? everybody on this forum is a avatar and a unknown really ,and sorry if i'm wrong to the OP , but could there be legitamate grounds for the application being rejected ?
fionn and blade can commence arguing this point now........
Fionn wrote:You could have requested an internal review of the decision, that would have not cost you anything.
Also you don't need a lawyer for NCAT.
jwai86 wrote:I'm aware that I don't need a lawyer to appeal through NCAT, but I am not confident about running my own legal case by myself.
Fionn wrote:As I said before, the police maybe just shifting liability to NCAT and won't fight the matter very hard. I am surprised you don't know this working in government? if you don't, its something you need to learn as its common practise.