When is,,, "enough is enough"

[mchughcb]

UA plane full of explosives just crashed in Greece. Don't what type it was carrying but the explosions have been going off for hours.

[mchughcb]

They can’t advance into their own artillery. They only hold the line by shelling no man’s land 24/7
If anything it looks like they might be withdrawing both Kherson and Kharkiv. Can’t move Russian supply lines and ammo depots out of range of Ukraines mobile artillery. Logistics is everything if you want to shell 24/7. A barrel will last 12 hours tops.
They have the stockpiles to do this indefinitely, but they have to deliver them.
They stop shelling and they and they are forced to face of with infantry. Not something they are particularly good at.


Still, they are firing missiles from subs to target kindergartens in the west. So theres that.

Probably come out in a few days which air force officers they killed. There are posts now of the wing of the officers building they hit with a statue of a MIG out the front. They say they took out foreign arms company representatives as well so they had pretty good intel. Obviously children getting killed during the strike is regretful.

[Oldbloke]

No one is being forced to fight for Ukraine. They fight for their freedom.
Russians fight to remain enslaved.

Well if that is the case, you can explain why men from 16-60 can't leave the country. Why men were conscripted and why now women are being conscripted. And if its freedom then you also need to explain why the ukrainians have been fighting themselves since 2014 and why they declared their independence.

What that means is not every ukrainian believes they want to be part of the Kiev governing elite.

A meaningless statement.

Not every Ozzie votes for ALP. But they won the election.

[Oldbloke]

UA plane full of explosives just crashed in Greece. Don't what type it was carrying but the explosions have been going off for hours.

The report says it was travelling to Bangladesh.


https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/7/1 ... -in-greece

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62195005

[womble]

No one is being forced to fight for Ukraine. They fight for their freedom.
Russians fight to remain enslaved.

Well if that is the case, you can explain why men from 16-60 can't leave the country. Why men were conscripted and why now women are being conscripted. And if its freedom then you also need to explain why the ukrainians have been fighting themselves since 2014 and why they declared their independence.

What that means is not every ukrainian believes they want to be part of the Kiev governing elite.

Martial law was enacted when the country was invaded. Men 16-60 in good health and not primary carers for children can’t leave the country in the event they are called apon to fight. Yes as in conscripted. That would mean full mobilisation like in ww2.
Has not come to that yet. Most of Ukraine tries to get on with life as normal as possible. People have jobs and bills to pay.
People will try and postpone leaving their lives and their families behind to fight in a war as long as possible.
The Russian occupation has been pushed back to the east of the country but Moscow has been screaming at them to advance again for 2 months now and most they are most certainly preparing to launch a second offensive.
Ukraine doses not consider the war ended until 1991 borders are fully restored and they will keep fighting until that is achieved.
Reservists have been called up as necessary. Like most European countries the armed forces is mostly reservists with a small full time army.
The only women reservists who have been called up thus far are medics because of a shortage and their medical training or profession is needed. Still, they are not compelled to serve or expected to fight.

Of course conscription could escalate but at this stage fortunately they have enough people willing and ready to fight. Plus foreigners from all around the world.

Second part of your query is Russian citizens living in Ukraine for work. They’re Russian. They speak Russian and watch Russian tv. They’re given a different narrative and subscribe to that without questioning it.
The separatist movement was created by Russias fabrication that these people were being persecuted in Ukraine. There’s a degree of truth to it because the Russians were exploited as cheap labour.
Russia dose’nt have free independent media like we do in the west. Everything is owned by the state and must comply with the political narrative. Facebook and instagram are blocked in Russia.
You can’t fight for Ukraine if you have Russian citizenship anyway. You won’t get enlisted.

For Russian apologists from the conservative viewpoint.
Abortion is free in Russia and part of your government medical insurance.

[mchughcb]

No one is being forced to fight for Ukraine. They fight for their freedom.
Russians fight to remain enslaved.

Well if that is the case, you can explain why men from 16-60 can't leave the country. Why men were conscripted and why now women are being conscripted. And if its freedom then you also need to explain why the ukrainians have been fighting themselves since 2014 and why they declared their independence.

What that means is not every ukrainian believes they want to be part of the Kiev governing elite.

A meaningless statement.

Not every Ozzie votes for ALP. But they won the election.

Back to bed with you old man. A CIA backed coup in 2014 is not an election.

[Billo]

Has Putin rounded up all the Nazi's yet ??

[cz515]

UA plane full of explosives just crashed in Greece. Don't what type it was carrying but the explosions have been going off for hours.

The report says it was travelling to Bangladesh.


https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/7/1 ... -in-greece

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62195005

Umm why would a Ukrainian airline carrying ammo from serbia be going to sirilanka.

Think about it a little

[Oldbloke]

No one is being forced to fight for Ukraine. They fight for their freedom.
Russians fight to remain enslaved.

Well if that is the case, you can explain why men from 16-60 can't leave the country. Why men were conscripted and why now women are being conscripted. And if its freedom then you also need to explain why the ukrainians have been fighting themselves since 2014 and why they declared their independence.

What that means is not every ukrainian believes they want to be part of the Kiev governing elite.

A meaningless statement.

Not every Ozzie votes for ALP. But they won the election.

Back to bed with you old man. A CIA backed coup in 2014 is not an election.

Have proof of that?

And not every one agrees with election results dip stick.

[cz515]

For Russian apologists from the conservative viewpoint.
Abortion is free in Russia and part of your government medical insurance.

Its a bit ironic isn't it, if what you are saying i got right.

Abortion is free in Russia, but no longer available in zee USA.

[Oldbloke]

UA plane full of explosives just crashed in Greece. Don't what type it was carrying but the explosions have been going off for hours.

The report says it was travelling to Bangladesh.


https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/7/1 ... -in-greece

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62195005

Umm why would a Ukrainian airline carrying ammo from serbia be going to sirilanka (sic).

Think about it a little

I don't need to think, you do.

Yes, I understand what your suggesting, but you shouldn't jump to conclusions without proof. You are "assuming". And we all know how that can turn out. Don't we?

Lots of munitions are manufactured by private companies and shipped around the world. It's very common.

And now your retort will be that MSM is lying, right?

P.S. You seem to be geographicly challenged.

Bangladesh is a long way from Sri Lanka. Lol

[straightshooter]

May the person who has never made an assertion while ignorant of the facts cast the first stone.

Now having bothered to scan through the articles, the situation is not as sinister as at first it may have seemed and is fairly apparent when one considers:
Serbia has publicly aligned itself with Russia and will not supply Ukraine nor support any NATO action.
The Uke aircraft more than likely is a contract carrier specialising in military supply air transport and is not an instrument of the Ukraine Government.
Serbia was the producer and Bangladesh is the customer.
I don't know what Sri Lanka has to do with this story but the flight plan could have been VIA a stop in Sri Lanka.
However I do know of a dealer who is at present waiting for a shipment of European barrels that amazingly are currently held up in transit in Sri Lanka.

[Oldbloke]

Has Putin rounded up all the Nazi's yet ??

Yes, he did. Didn't you hear, they are all the civilian women and children in the mass graves.

[mchughcb]

Has Putin rounded up all the Nazi's yet ??

No, but a fair few of their military wing were captured at mariupol. Other regiments are based in kharkiv and getting slowly whittled down.

[wanneroo]

The Russians it would seem have lost their momentum again after repositioning to attack along one front.

Kinda of funny to say now in the hottest time of the year, but winter is coming. Will the Russians have all this tied up with what they want by winter?

In the meantime, half of the Ukrainian military is being trained by NATO in a variety of other countries.

[womble]

Modern day charge of the light brigade. Except now it’s the Russians doing the charging. Unbelievable that military still fights like this.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nL_om8Q2gqk

[straightshooter]

The Russians it would seem have lost their momentum again after repositioning to attack along one front.

Kinda of funny to say now in the hottest time of the year, but winter is coming. Will the Russians have all this tied up with what they want by winter?

In the meantime, half of the Ukrainian military is being trained by NATO in a variety of other countries.

Nothing new.
This form of rotational training has been going on since 2014 but it does not seem to have been a resounding success. I suppose the logic being applied is that effectiveness will have to improve by the application of yet more training.
On another front it seems things are "heating up".
Gazprom has invoked a 'force majeure' to three of it's gas customers as of the 14th. Meaning it can no longer guarantee contracted supply due to forces beyond it's control. In other words Russia is about to turn off the gas but has still left a little wriggle room.
We are about to see if the Gerasimov doctrine of hybrid warfare has any practical basis.

[cz515]

Sorry my bad itc was Bangladesh not SL.

A bit early for proper brain function apparently

[mchughcb]

Germans now say they can't give anymore.

Maybe they can buy old soviet stock from the Russians and donate it to the Ukrainians. That way they can virtue signal they are doing something, Russians get paid for old stock and the Ukranians can continue advance towards Poland.

Time is running out for negotiations.

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/ge ... 82082d61ec

[mchughcb]

Whoa, he said it out aloud.

"Every day Ukraine is losing about a hundred soldiers.

"We need the necessary equipment to repel the Russians."

Mr Myroshnychenko said Bushmasters had become synonymous with Australia in Ukraine.


https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/markets ... ffaa266c6c

[cz515]

Yes and our d**khead governments won't spend money on hospitals and roads and education in Australia... well for that matter on aged care looking after the old..... but we will spend hundreds of millions to send tin cans to Ukraine

[mchughcb]

We got limited amounts of them and they aren't going to last too long against a MBT.

Supposedly ambulances only but what is the remains of the EOS R-400S Mk2 doing on there?

[Oldbloke]

Yes and our d**khead governments won't spend money on hospitals and roads and education in Australia... well for that matter on aged care looking after the old..... but we will spend hundreds of millions to send tin cans to Ukraine

Don't concern yourself. A few here think old people don't matter, just let them rot in bed.

[Oldbloke]

Whoa, he said it out aloud.

"Every day Ukraine is losing about a hundred soldiers.

We need the necessary equipment to repel the Russians

Mr Myroshnychenko said Bushmasters had become synonymous with Australia in Ukraine.


https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/markets ... ffaa266c6c

What's the bet Putin isn't telling how many Russia's are dieing.

[mickb]

Any large African nation loses more kids from malnutrition or the depradations of their corrupt governments in a month, than the entire ukraine war to date. Ukraine is in the news because billionaires and power players are squabbling over resources post covid and they need a scapegoat. We have trade sanctions which are weaponised finance meant to cripple a target country instead crippling 31 countries on our own side. The wheels have fallen off the wagon of sanity but people are still climbing aboard for the ride.

Sorry, where were we, presidents in drag, tiktok vids showing ukrainian dancing dogs being killed in a local circus, and putin driving up the price of beef, textiles, raw materials and home insurance before he even invaded.

[mchughcb]

Whoa, he said it out aloud.

"Every day Ukraine is losing about a hundred soldiers.

We need the necessary equipment to repel the Russians

Mr Myroshnychenko said Bushmasters had become synonymous with Australia in Ukraine.


https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/markets ... ffaa266c6c

What's the bet Putin isn't telling how many Russia's are dieing.

More accurate then Zelensky is telling nobody how many Ukrainians combatants have died. Unofficially I've heard about 4300. For the Ukrainians they claim factor of 10. Ukrainians aren't saying much but every couple of day it slips out hundreds per day. My guess is somewhere between 100 and 1000 per day.

[mchughcb]

Any large African nation loses more kids from malnutrition or the depradations of their corrupt governments in a month, than the entire ukraine war to date. Ukraine is in the news because billionaires and power players are squabbling over resources post covid and they need a scapegoat. We have trade sanctions which are weaponised finance meant to cripple a target country instead crippling 31 countries on our own side. The wheels have fallen off the wagon of sanity but people are still climbing aboard for the ride.

Sorry, where were we, presidents in drag, tiktok vids showing ukrainian dancing dogs being killed in a local circus, and putin driving up the price of beef, textiles, raw materials and home insurance before he even invaded.

You have a fair point there. As the Russians have said they have no sanctions on their gas, oil or wheat. However every other country has sanctioned them and they just sell to the Chinese and Indians. So you have 150 million selling to 3 billion at a cheap price while the 450 million in the EU are pooping their pants when the price of gas has jumped from $30 to $175 all of their own making.

As Orban said, the EU hasn't shot themselves in the foot, they've shot themselves in the lungs.

[Oldbloke]

Whoa, he said it out aloud.

"Every day Ukraine is losing about a hundred soldiers.

We need the necessary equipment to repel the Russians

Mr Myroshnychenko said Bushmasters had become synonymous with Australia in Ukraine.


https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/markets ... ffaa266c6c

What's the bet Putin isn't telling how many Russia's are dieing.

More accurate then Zelensky is telling nobody how many Ukrainians combatants have died. Unofficially I've heard about 4300. For the Ukrainians they claim factor of 10. Ukrainians aren't saying much but every couple of day it slips out hundreds per day. My guess is somewhere between 100 and 1000 per day.

What the hell makes you think Pootin is honest and accurately reporting casualties. My god you must be gullible or intentionaly posting BS.

Russian estimated casualties so far about 38,700.

https://en.defence-ua.com/news/144_days ... -3590.html

https://en.defence-ua.com/news/144_days ... -3590.html

Ukraine, reports are all over the place but I'd suggest this could be a sensible estimate/guess.
About 144x150=21,700
Plus 5,700 civilians. As at 11/7/22
https://www.ohchr.org/en/news/2022/07/u ... -july-2022

But just keep in mind the first casualty of this war was the truth, , on all sides. Including this thread I suspect.

[mchughcb]

Whoa, he said it out aloud.

"Every day Ukraine is losing about a hundred soldiers.

We need the necessary equipment to repel the Russians

Mr Myroshnychenko said Bushmasters had become synonymous with Australia in Ukraine.


https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/markets ... ffaa266c6c

What's the bet Putin isn't telling how many Russia's are dieing.

More accurate then Zelensky is telling nobody how many Ukrainians combatants have died. Unofficially I've heard about 4300. For the Ukrainians they claim factor of 10. Ukrainians aren't saying much but every couple of day it slips out hundreds per day. My guess is somewhere between 100 and 1000 per day.

What the hell makes you think Pootin is honest and accurately reporting casualties. My god you must be gullible or intentionaly posting BS.

Russian estimated casualties so far about 38,700.

https://en.defence-ua.com/news/144_days ... -3590.html

https://en.defence-ua.com/news/144_days ... -3590.html

Ukraine, reports are all over the place but I'd suggest this could be a sensible estimate/guess.
About 144x150=21,700
Plus 5,700 civilians. As at 11/7/22
https://www.ohchr.org/en/news/2022/07/u ... -july-2022

But just keep in mind the first casualty of this war was the truth, , on all sides. Including this thread I suspect.

I said unofficially, not from official channels.That includes Russian ministry of defense. Maybe you should take your medication and just go back to bed.

[mchughcb]

You are posting the Ukrainian ministry of defence as the official figures. Ooookay then.
Must be amazing that with Russians 10 times the daily artillery strikes with longer missiles that they have significantly higher losses than the Ukrainians. Actually that doesn't make any sense.