Spotting Scopes

[madang55]

Went looking for conversations re spotting scopes and found mostly old (2years) threads. So...my old scope I used for Full Bore at Williamstown is just not cutting it any more. My own eyesight ain't much better. Been trawling the net, but. Any recommendations for seeing holes in paper out to about 300?
Pay for what you get I know, but there must be something someone has stumbled on that will be surprisingly good for the price.??

[northdude]

I had a konus and that was a piece of crap so avoid those

[madang55]

I had a konus and that was a piece of crap so avoid those

OHHH K

[No1_49er]

I got a Kowa 88mm with 25-60x eyepiece. Very nice piece of kit.

[SCJ429]

Sightron? Sorry I meant Celestron.

[deye243]

I bought one of these way back in 2015 I think it was it's a Vanguard HD and it is never going anywhere pretty damn good glass for under 1000 bucks.

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[in2anity]

If you are shooting ultimately under the NRAA, mostly you’ll have a digital target for feedback will you not? Given this fact, the spotter serves the purpose of viewing the mirage only. In which case you don’t need to spend the big bucks. If you wanna practice f class privately, might I suggest a cheap digital solution such as Shotmarker? It’s a stretch relying on the glass alone to spot those holes, especially when the boil is bad.

[madang55]

Hmmm...Shotmarker, yeahhhhhh...nah. Had a look at a utoob and too much playing around. Just want a telescope. I might have a look at the 20-60x60 or x80 Tasco or SvBony. Kowa have a good rep but up in price. Its not going to be the difference between me and a sheep-station, just me and knowing where I'm hitting the target.

[in2anity]

Hmmm...Shotmarker, yeahhhhhh...nah. Had a look at a utoob and too much playing around. Just want a telescope. I might have a look at the 20-60x60 or x80 Tasco or SvBony. Kowa have a good rep but up in price. Its not going to be the difference between me and a sheep-station, just me and knowing where I'm hitting the target.

I own a Shotmarker and it takes 10 mins to setup, same as Silver mountain at the club. But fair enough, each to their own

I have a few questions then; What distances are you expecting to “spot holes”? What caliber? What colour + material are your targets? What is your buttstop/berm constructed from (i.e. colour)?

[scoot]

Has anyone built their own diy target camera????
All the systems I see seem very expensive for what they are. If you don't want fancy software to map shots and measure group size , etc... it seems a simpler cheaper option would be better.
I've been contemplating making a basic cheap version with a camera, transmitter and reciever. With drone technology and the FPV systems they run I can't help but think a setup could be built for under $200 that would give you a live picture of the target for over a km.

[on_one_wheel]

Has anyone built their own diy target camera????
All the systems I see seem very expensive for what they are. If you don't want fancy software to map shots and measure group size , etc... it seems a simpler cheaper option would be better.
I've been contemplating making a basic cheap version with a camera, transmitter and reciever. With drone technology and the FPV systems they run I can't help but think a setup could be built for under $200 that would give you a live picture of the target for over a km.

I like ya thinking, I'm sure iv seen the topic broached but I can't recall seeing anyone actually do it.

I know the technology used in drones is more than capable distance wise and that cameras, transmitters and receivers can be bought separately on the cheap.
Iv seen videos of people setting up first person viewing on rc cars and buzzing around the street with them.
Something like this perhaps

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[madang55]

Like I said. I just want to see if I'm even hitting the target when I go to the range. Especially after I get on paper at 25yrds then go to 100 and 200. .22LR/204R/223/6.5 Grendel/6.5 Creedmoor/308W/9.3x62. I print my own targets and overlay with the shoot n C stick ons. Some days the picture through the rifle scope ain't that good and the smaller holes are hard to see. I can vaguely see holes at 200, but if I'm missing I don't want to walk all the way out to 200 to find out I'm wasting money. I have a very minute detachment at the back of the eye, makes me see cobwebs occasionally. When I look at a vertical line (i.e. the vertical in a telescopic sight) it has waves in it. I might take my old SLR Nikon with the 18-250mm lens and see how that goes. If that works, I will see at what mag I need to be at to see good, and work on a telescope that covers that range. Oh, and what's F class? Someone said it was like Benchrest on a blanket? Williamstown, Full-Bore, (paid $100 for my Omark) 900 yards, Central rear sight, amber foresight, ahhh, that was shooting!!! Best effort 9 central possible at 500 yards. Fig Jam, heh, heh.

[bladeracer]

Has anyone built their own diy target camera????
All the systems I see seem very expensive for what they are. If you don't want fancy software to map shots and measure group size , etc... it seems a simpler cheaper option would be better.
I've been contemplating making a basic cheap version with a camera, transmitter and reciever. With drone technology and the FPV systems they run I can't help but think a setup could be built for under $200 that would give you a live picture of the target for over a km.

I think the simplest is two mobile phones, set one up facing the target and do a video call to the shooter's phone.

[in2anity]

If you limit yourself to 200m madang, a middle-of-road spotter will suffice, i.e. under a grand. Good suggestions already made by others. F class is the evolution of fullbore into heavy bipods and rear bags with a higher focus on heavy equipment and precision reloads - still came from the ICFRA fullbore scene though. Their X ring is half the size of our V, and their integer starts at our decimal - it’s actually harder than it looks. Basically have to group all shots under 1moa, at all distances, under all winds, just to get a look in.

[scoot]

I thought about phone but will require 2x "active" phones and phone coverage for video calls.
Saw a write up which used an old phone with no sim set up as the cam and viewed through another phone using wifi hotspot and a generic Web cam type app. It started to confuse me a bit and really only has the range of a phones wifi.
So far the drone fpv setup seems to me a winner. It's affordable, long ranges, setup/packup easily due to its size and ability to run off small battery packs, ability to view on any screen with av/usb input. Standalone and portable.
I'm going to try and find more info over the next few weeks to determine what I need. There's super cheap Chinese stuff, more specialised drone stuff (still pretty cheap) and more expensive high end stuff. I suspect there's probably a trick to getting suitable transmitter, reciever and aerials for the job. Don't mind spending a few hundy but want to better understand what I need to get a stable image/reception out to a km before I commit.
Stay tuned.......ha

[on_one_wheel]

It's worth starting a thread on it Scoot, I'd be extremely keen to see what you come up with, I'm sure many others will too .

[deye243]

Absolutely

[bladeracer]

I thought about phone but will require 2x "active" phones and phone coverage for video calls.
Saw a write up which used an old phone with no sim set up as the cam and viewed through another phone using wifi hotspot and a generic Web cam type app. It started to confuse me a bit and really only has the range of a phones wifi.
So far the drone fpv setup seems to me a winner. It's affordable, long ranges, setup/packup easily due to its size and ability to run off small battery packs, ability to view on any screen with av/usb input. Standalone and portable.
I'm going to try and find more info over the next few weeks to determine what I need. There's super cheap Chinese stuff, more specialised drone stuff (still pretty cheap) and more expensive high end stuff. I suspect there's probably a trick to getting suitable transmitter, reciever and aerials for the job. Don't mind spending a few hundy but want to better understand what I need to get a stable image/reception out to a km before I commit.
Stay tuned.......ha

Yes, paired phones are good if you have a mate shooting with you, but then he can just use his own scope to spot your shots for you.
Drones are a good option too but they have limited battery life. If you're just going to park it at the target though you should be able to rig up a larger battery to keep it running. I know one of the DJ drones you clip your phone onto the controller and can view whatever the drone can see, that would work very well, but they're pretty expensive.

I have used a generic Go-Pro set up at the target to record the bullet impacts for later viewing.

We use a wi-fi extender thingy that takes our incoming internet connection on top of the hill and shoots it down to the house. It has a range of something like 25km, but requires a clear line of sight. I'm not electrically-inclined so I'm reluctant to mess with our wifi but it should be possible to use this thing to send a wifi signal to a receiver 1000m down range. Then you log into it with the phone to view a CCTV camera at the end of it. I don't know how portable such a setup would be though.

[madang55]

If you limit yourself to 200m madang, a middle-of-road spotter will suffice, i.e. under a grand. Good suggestions already made by others. F class is the evolution of fullbore into heavy bipods and rear bags with a higher focus on heavy equipment and precision reloads - still came from the ICFRA fullbore scene though. Their X ring is half the size of our V, and their integer starts at our decimal - it’s actually harder than it looks. Basically have to group all shots under 1moa, at all distances, under all winds, just to get a look in.

Thankyou so much for staying on topic. Spotting Scopes. That F Class looks like a lot of hard work, too many decimal points and integers. Next time I'm at the range, I will see what's being used and start with that. I just thought someone here would have recently purchased an economical scope which would have suited my needs.

[northdude]

how about a higher mag scope on the rifle your using?

[scoot]

Sooooo, I may have ordered a bunch of random #%!?. Last night. I'm kind of bad like that.
Couldn't find stock in Oz so I've ordered straight from the motherland of Corona a 7" Fpv monitor with built in reciever, record, battery, etc. This seamed to be the easiest all in one no fuss solution for the firing line. It was $140 but doing sums; it's not "considerably" cheaper to break it down into buying each component separately. Even without assembly. I guess you could save money shopping better if you're doing it on the cheap. Maybe "tailor" a better system.
I ordered also ordered some "generic" camera + transmitter kit to put at the pointy end. This was only $30 so I don't know how it will go. Provided the transmitter is OK the camera quality I think really isn't going to change the world.
If it ever shows up I'll put it together "as is" and do a thread. If it works your looking good for well under $200 and a complete standalone simple setup. If not I'll play around with different antennae or transmitter. Keen to make it work for at least a km.prove the $900+ price tag for commercial setup is bull$&!?.. software and off the shelf convenience ain't worth $700. Especially not for average Joe.

[bladeracer]

Thankyou so much for staying on topic. Spotting Scopes. That F Class looks like a lot of hard work, too many decimal points and integers. Next time I'm at the range, I will see what's being used and start with that. I just thought someone here would have recently purchased an economical scope which would have suited my needs.

I have a Visionking 75-power spotting scope, but I've only used it a handful of times in the six years I've had it, too bulky to lug around and requires carrying a tripod. I don't often shoot paper out to 300m. My Bushnell 18-power scopes allow me to see .22-cal bullet holes in paper out to 200m. I have some cheap 10-40x scopes I could check those and the VK at 300m if you want.

What scope magnification are you using at 300m? For target shooting I would try to use sufficient magnification to be able to see your holes at 300m as you should be aiming at marks smaller than a .22" hole anyway.

Sometimes you won't be able to see your holes anyway because of the light conditions, regardless of how much magnification you have.

I know that Fly Shooting requires being able to see your bullet holes so maybe ask on those forums, they shoot at 500m. Things like F-Class don't need spotting scopes as the targets are marked at the butts after every shot.

[bladeracer]

Sooooo, I may have ordered a bunch of random #%!?. Last night. I'm kind of bad like that.
Couldn't find stock in Oz so I've ordered straight from the motherland of Corona a 7" Fpv monitor with built in reciever, record, battery, etc. This seamed to be the easiest all in one no fuss solution for the firing line. It was $140 but doing sums; it's not "considerably" cheaper to break it down into buying each component separately. Even without assembly. I guess you could save money shopping better if you're doing it on the cheap. Maybe "tailor" a better system.
I ordered also ordered some "generic" camera + transmitter kit to put at the pointy end. This was only $30 so I don't know how it will go. Provided the transmitter is OK the camera quality I think really isn't going to change the world.
If it ever shows up I'll put it together "as is" and do a thread. If it works your looking good for well under $200 and a complete standalone simple setup. If not I'll play around with different antennae or transmitter. Keen to make it work for at least a km.prove the $900+ price tag for commercial setup is bull$&!?.. software and off the shelf convenience ain't worth $700. Especially not for average Joe.

Definitely interested to see what you come up with.
Most of my longer shooting is done along a fence line so I have considered running an electrical cable out there that I can plug something into at each end as required. I put a reversing camera in the bus which is a very simple CCTV camera and a monitor. Mount the camera on the roof, mount the monitor on the rearview mirror, run a length of cable between the two. Being 12V it runs off a car or bike battery. Whether this would be effective with a 500m cable I don't know though

[madang55]

Thankyou so much for staying on topic. Spotting Scopes. That F Class looks like a lot of hard work, too many decimal points and integers. Next time I'm at the range, I will see what's being used and start with that. I just thought someone here would have recently purchased an economical scope which would have suited my needs.

I have a Visionking 75-power spotting scope, but I've only used it a handful of times in the six years I've had it, too bulky to lug around and requires carrying a tripod. I don't often shoot paper out to 300m. My Bushnell 18-power scopes allow me to see .22-cal bullet holes in paper out to 200m. I have some cheap 10-40x scopes I could check those and the VK at 300m if you want.

What scope magnification are you using at 300m? For target shooting I would try to use sufficient magnification to be able to see your holes at 300m as you should be aiming at marks smaller than a .22" hole anyway.

Sometimes you won't be able to see your holes anyway because of the light conditions, regardless of how much magnification you have.

I know that Fly Shooting requires being able to see your bullet holes so maybe ask on those forums, they shoot at 500m. Things like F-Class don't need spotting scopes as the targets are marked at the butts after every shot.

Spot on. Hadn't seen the Visionking line, When I googled, a stack of others came up as well. I now have more of a choice. I really only need to see what's happening at 200. If I'm good there, the longer ranges take care of themselves. I haven't actually had the need to put a target at 300 yet.
Cheers

[bladeracer]

Spot on. Hadn't seen the Visionking line, When I googled, a stack of others came up as well. I now have more of a choice. I really only need to see what's happening at 200. If I'm good there, the longer ranges take care of themselves. I haven't actually had the need to put a target at 300 yet.
Cheers

Same, I think 200m is far enough to tell me whether a load will hang together out to longer distances.

I shoot paper to 200m, past there I prefer to shoot steel, but occasionally I do shoot paper with .22LR out past 300m just to see how the group hangs together. I don't actually need to see the holes though when shooting groups - sometimes it's better not to be able to see the holes so I can't subconsciously adjust my point of aim.

Now I feel an urge to go out and shoot some long-range .22LR groups though, thanks for that

[madang55]

Now I feel an urge to go out and shoot some long-range .22LR groups though, thanks for that
.
.
.Glad I could be of help.

[bladeracer]

Now I feel an urge to go out and shoot some long-range .22LR groups though, thanks for that
.
.
.Glad I could be of help.

I called a mate who came over, we spent four hours plinking paper and steel with the .22's, all because of you
Forgot to take the spotting scope though.

Only stretched out to 188m on the 120mm gongs though, still very muddy out there.

[mickb]

The usual levels of spotting scopes I find are

1. Chinese crap
2. Okay chinese stuff.
3. Chinese stuff made for Euro or US brands. This is technically the same level as no.2. All the cheaper model options for Vortex, Athlon, opticron etc are this.
4. Japanese stuff, sometimes made under a Euro or US brand label as their 1st or 2nd tier level model. Example Athlon Argos is chinese factory, Athlon cronus is Japanese factory.
5. High grade stuff made by the high level companies.Ziess, Lieca, Kowa, Swarovski etc.( some of these also now farm cheap models out to the options above as well).

Notes:
Most stuff sold in gunstores will be a solid no.2 or no.3 performer. Nothing too fancy or expensive , but does the job. The same model may be sold by several different companies under different names all from the same factory in china.
The best results if you want to pay a little more are good level 4 Jap stuff. Their binos like the Fujinon military spec and nikon/pentax spotters its hard to tell much difference from top end Ziess and at 1/2 or 1/3 the price. Its where I personally aim for, but I am a bit of a spotter nut.
Always- make sure it is gas purged so it doesnt fog or grow mould in the lenses.

[madang55]

OK....so I have seen quite a few SvBony scopes at the range. 25-75 X 70 for under $150. I don't mind a $100 scope falling apart after 12 months. Just means I can get another one. Anyone out there got one of these?????

[Total_immortal]

I was gonna buy one of those Svbony jobs, the Sv13 in particular for $130ish, managed to find a Celestron Ultima 65 for the same price to went with that