Is a .357 magnum lever action enough gun for Pigs?

[bladeracer]

powder is around now primers are still a little hard to find ammo can be found to but prices are high for all of it.
I hope some makes it makes it to you guys

Tigershark has a small shipment of European powder en-route, expected here in October, but how long it takes to actually reach the dealer is unknown. Already all spoken for though and not able to be distributed away from Brisbane. I read something last week about somebody else looking to bring in a different powder but it was early discussion so I didn't save it.

The "changes" that covid caused in the transport industry seem to have become permanent so I can't see prices dropping back to what was normal.

[SCJ429]

I don't know if a 357 would suffice in all scenarios. Check out this video, some of these pigs against a 12gauge taking multiple rounds at close range. I personally like to use a 45/70.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZHZM9f ... e=youtu.be

I agree that the 45/70 is a much better choice. The poor old 357 delivers 900 foot pounds of energy at best, that is less than a 223 shooting 40 grain projectiles.

[bradley33]

The biggest problem is that many people use ammo that is designed as self defence on humans. Opens too quickly for hunting tougher animals. This includes most 158gr loads.

Go for ammo designed for hunting and you won't have a problem on pigs.

what 158 grain loads specifically open too fast on game and what are 'tougher animals'? I have used geco, xtp hollowpoints, magtech, hydrashok on tons of pigs. There isnt a great deal of difference in 158 grain bullets HP or FP on game that size I find, let alone 'most 158 loads being bad" That weight is usually a top seller for pigs anywhere.

Now you go lighter with 'self defence loads' in 357 like down to 125 or 110 you might run into dramas yes

[bradley33]

I don't know if a 357 would suffice in all scenarios. Check out this video, some of these pigs against a 12gauge taking multiple rounds at close range. I personally like to use a 45/70.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZHZM9f ... e=youtu.be

I agree that the 45/70 is a much better choice. The poor old 357 delivers 900 foot pounds of energy at best, that is less than a 223 shooting 40 grain projectiles.

Have you shot any pigs with 357 mate? Pretty popular calibre up the top end in pig country, just saying.

[Billo]

I don't know if a 357 would suffice in all scenarios. Check out this video, some of these pigs against a 12gauge taking multiple rounds at close range. I personally like to use a 45/70.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZHZM9f ... e=youtu.be

I agree that the 45/70 is a much better choice. The poor old 357 delivers 900 foot pounds of energy at best, that is less than a 223 shooting 40 grain projectiles.

A hand loaded 357 magnum makes around 1350-1400 fps of energy, and some factory stuff I tested was making 1200 ftlbs. Id rather a 357 magnum than 223 every day of the week.

[bladeracer]

I don't know if a 357 would suffice in all scenarios. Check out this video, some of these pigs against a 12gauge taking multiple rounds at close range. I personally like to use a 45/70.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZHZM9f ... e=youtu.be

I agree that the 45/70 is a much better choice. The poor old 357 delivers 900 foot pounds of energy at best, that is less than a 223 shooting 40 grain projectiles.

Sure, but the 40gn is likely to expend all its energy in the first inch of mud and perhaps the next inch of pork and bone, the 158gn will go much deeper.

[SCJ429]

I don't know if a 357 would suffice in all scenarios. Check out this video, some of these pigs against a 12gauge taking multiple rounds at close range. I personally like to use a 45/70.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZHZM9f ... e=youtu.be

I agree that the 45/70 is a much better choice. The poor old 357 delivers 900 foot pounds of energy at best, that is less than a 223 shooting 40 grain projectiles.

Have you shot any pigs with 357 mate? Pretty popular calibre up the top end in pig country, just saying.

I'm sure they have but would they all be better off with a 45/70?
Never shot anything with a 357, but I have shot pigs with a 45/70. Never wished I was carrying something chambered in a pistol cartridge instead.

[SCJ429]

I don't know if a 357 would suffice in all scenarios. Check out this video, some of these pigs against a 12gauge taking multiple rounds at close range. I personally like to use a 45/70.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZHZM9f ... e=youtu.be

I agree that the 45/70 is a much better choice. The poor old 357 delivers 900 foot pounds of energy at best, that is less than a 223 shooting 40 grain projectiles.

A hand loaded 357 magnum makes around 1350-1400 fps of energy, and some factory stuff I tested was making 1200 ftlbs. Id rather a 357 magnum than 223 every day of the week.

What bullet going at what speed gets you 1200 foot pounds of energy?
The choice is between the cases is 357 vs 45/70. No one suggested shooting anything with a 40 grain bullet from a 223. The comparisons were how small amounts of energy were produced from the pistol case, that it was less than the 223.

[SCJ429]

I don't know if a 357 would suffice in all scenarios. Check out this video, some of these pigs against a 12gauge taking multiple rounds at close range. I personally like to use a 45/70.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZHZM9f ... e=youtu.be

I agree that the 45/70 is a much better choice. The poor old 357 delivers 900 foot pounds of energy at best, that is less than a 223 shooting 40 grain projectiles.

Sure, but the 40gn is likely to expend all its energy in the first inch of mud and perhaps the next inch of pork and bone, the 158gn will go much deeper.

I didn't say to use a 40 grain pill out of a 45/70 did I? How would a 300 to 400 grain pill work compared to the feeble 357?

[bradley33]

I'm sure they have but would they all be better off with a 45/70?

Well 357 and 44mag sales would dry up for pig hunting if they really needed something better. But I have a lot of respect for 45-70


Edited to sound non-snarky, apologies all.

[bradley33]

[
I didn't say to use a 40 grain pill out of a 45/70 did I? How would a 300 to 400 grain pill work compared to the feeble 357?

How would the feeble 45-70 compare to 500 nitro.

A calibre either works or it doesnt and if it does you dont need to double the power to keep up with someone elses preferences.

[SMLEing politely]

I dont doubt a 45-70 does the job with authority but geez, who can afford $4 a shot just to knock over pigs?

[bladeracer]

Sure, but the 40gn is likely to expend all its energy in the first inch of mud and perhaps the next inch of pork and bone, the 158gn will go much deeper.

I didn't say to use a 40 grain pill out of a 45/70 did I? How would a 300 to 400 grain pill work compared to the feeble 357?

You brought the 40gn into the discussion, I was explaining why energy is not relevant to this discussion.
The .357Mag would not be my first choice for pigs, but I would hardly consider it feeble, lots of people have successfully taken pigs for a century with the even more feeble .22WMR, .22 Hornet and .222Rem - use the correct bullet and put it in the correct place and you won't have too much trouble.

But if you're looking to break up a bunch of pigs and drop as many as you can as quickly as you can, a lot of your shots are likely to be at the rear end rapidly disappearing into the bush. I would go with something that is more likely to penetrate much deeper, and bullet mass does that best.

A 300gn to 400gn bullet is likely to expend half its energy in the mud behind the pig, again making its huge energy numbers mostly irrelevant. .45-70 adds reduced capacity and heavy recoil, I would prefer .44Mag - or .30-30, .303, .308 in the current climate of no pistol powders or primers.

[Fionn]

I'm sure they have but would they all be better off with a 45/70?
Never shot anything with a 357, but I have shot pigs with a 45/70. Never wished I was carrying something chambered in a pistol cartridge instead.

Owning a 45/70 myself, its in no way is any better than a 357 for pigs, that is unless you can't shoot very well. Not to mention the price ammo for it at $4 a shot vs less then $1 for 357.

The 45/70 is a great round if you reload and use reduced loads for it. But relying on bigger more powerful rounds than required for a situation just demonstrates that your overcompensating for a lack of skill or ability.

Nothing wrong with wanting to use the round, because you like it. But its not better or more suited simply because its bigger.

[animalpest]

I'm sure they have but would they all be better off with a 45/70?
Never shot anything with a 357, but I have shot pigs with a 45/70. Never wished I was carrying something chambered in a pistol cartridge instead.

Owning a 45/70 myself, its in no way is any better than a 357 for pigs, that is unless you can't shoot very well. Not to mention the price ammo for it at $4 a shot vs less then $1 for 357.

The 45/70 is a great round if you reload and use reduced loads for it. But relying on bigger more powerful rounds than required for a situation just demonstrates that your overcompensating for a lack of skill or ability.

Nothing wrong with wanting to use the round, because you like it. But its not better or more suited simply because its bigger.

Correct. Compensating for poor shooting needing a much more powerful cartridge is poor. Wanting a bigger calibre, or that's all you have is fine.

The .357 is adequate for feral pigs, although not my first choice. And that was what the original post was about.

[Fionn]

Correct. Compensating for poor shooting needing a much more powerful cartridge is poor. Wanting a bigger calibre, or that's all you have is fine.

The .357 is adequate for feral pigs, although not my first choice. And that was what the original post was about.

Overcompensating is a very real thing for many people it seems.

The OP seems to have left the conversation, but I think I have said here before, the 357 is a good all round hunting round for Australia. Are the better rounds for certain circumstances, yes. Are their better rounds for certain animals, yes. Are their better rounds for certain environments, yes.

But for a general hunting round its a hard to beat.

[Billo]

I don't know if a 357 would suffice in all scenarios. Check out this video, some of these pigs against a 12gauge taking multiple rounds at close range. I personally like to use a 45/70.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZHZM9f ... e=youtu.be

I agree that the 45/70 is a much better choice. The poor old 357 delivers 900 foot pounds of energy at best, that is less than a 223 shooting 40 grain projectiles.

A hand loaded 357 magnum makes around 1350-1400 fps of energy, and some factory stuff I tested was making 1200 ftlbs. Id rather a 357 magnum than 223 every day of the week.

What bullet going at what speed gets you 1200 foot pounds of energy?
The choice is between the cases is 357 vs 45/70. No one suggested shooting anything with a 40 grain bullet from a 223. The comparisons were how small amounts of energy were produced from the pistol case, that it was less than the 223.

Federal 125gr JHP, Chrono'd at 2100 fp out of my Ruger Carbine. Plenty of reviews have it as good stuff too

[bradley33]

The 357 online manual has 3 powders to get 140gn at 2069, 1330ftlbs. 158JSP to 1963fps for 1350ftlbs. 180JHP to 1750fps for 1200ftlbs. 110 to 2498 for 1500ftlbs. Alliants pistol data has loads to get 158 and 170 JSP to 1600fps+ , 900ftlbs. Add a few hundred fps for rifle barrel and thats going to be up there too. I never tried any of these btw, just repeating what I could find. 158gn packet ammo worked well enough for me.

[bladeracer]

I have the Uberti '66 and Rossi 92, both with 24" barrels. The first is chambered in .38 Special, the second in .357 Magnum. Even out of the 24" barrels I do consider the .38 to be a fairly mild cartridge (158gn cast at 1000fps, 110gn XTP at 1300fps). But the .357 Magnum is a significant step up, and getting quite close to the old .30-30 standby, and not many people would consider the .30-30 to be under-powered for deer or pigs. I haven't pursued velocities at all but now I'm curious just how close to .30-30 carbine velocities might I push the 158gn XTP in this longer barrel. Anybody already tried the experiment?
A quick look at ADI's data for an 18.5" barrel puts the 158gn around 1670fps and the 140gn around 1930fps.

My Winchester '94 in .30-30 is only a 20" barrel. I've only tried one factory round through it, the S&B 150gn SP (I bought a box for testing for a member here) - 5rds averaged 2275fps. I did get some 150gn Winchester Silver-Tips with the rifle but I haven't tried them. I would think I could probably improve a little on that with handloads without getting too crazy.

[bradley33]

I'm curious just how close to .30-30 carbine velocities might I push the 158gn XTP in this longer barrel. Anybody already tried the experiment?
A quick look at ADI's data for an 18.5" barrel puts the 158gn around 1670fps and the 140gn around 1930fps.

This fella has. https://leverguns.com/articles/paco/357 ... rature.htm List up to 2300fps with 150 in a rossi 92 not sure how safe that one is. I seen a lot of data on other sites around 1800-1900 so maybe that is more like it.

[bladeracer]

I'm curious just how close to .30-30 carbine velocities might I push the 158gn XTP in this longer barrel. Anybody already tried the experiment?
A quick look at ADI's data for an 18.5" barrel puts the 158gn around 1670fps and the 140gn around 1930fps.

This fella has. https://leverguns.com/articles/paco/357_magnum_and_the_literature.htm List up to 2300fps with 150 in a rossi 92 not sure how safe that one is. I seen a lot of data on other sites around 1800-1900 so maybe that is more like it.

Nice. It really puts the ability of the "little" pistol cartridge in perspective when it stacks up so evenly against a rifle cartridge that few would consider in any way inadequate for deer.

1800fps I would expect to be very safe even in the carbine barrels. Another four to six inches of barrel could up that maybe as much as 200fps, but 2300fps must be getting pretty hot.

In that article he mentions the mistaken belief that pistol bullets won't take rifle velocities. That may be true for some bullets perhaps, I doubt it though. The 100gn XTP has done over 3300fps for me in the 7.62x54R and .303 with no issues, even in 10"-twist 25" and 29" barrels. I doubt there is a realistic velocity maximum for the XTP's.

[wrenchman]

if you do hand load you can make the 357 perform well if you push it up to hunt go with a good bullet keep in mind they were made for hand guns and might not perform for hunting.
i dont know if you guys can get speer bullets i and loading 158 grain solids.
part of the fun is making a good load that will perform well for me

[bladeracer]

if you do hand load you can make the 357 perform well if you push it up to hunt go with a good bullet keep in mind they were made for hand guns and might not perform for hunting.
i dont know if you guys can get speer bullets i and loading 158 grain solids.
part of the fun is making a good load that will perform well for me

Solids? Do you mean FMJ round-nose or a solid copper or brass bullet?

[wrenchman]

i stay away from hollow points i am not messing fmj i worry about not expanding i am running a semi jacketed lead tip flat tip semi wad cutter

[wrenchman]

Here is what I am using with 15g h110

[bradley33]

if you do hand load you can make the 357 perform well if you push it up to hunt go with a good bullet keep in mind they were made for hand guns and might not perform for hunting.
i dont know if you guys can get speer bullets i and loading 158 grain solids.
part of the fun is making a good load that will perform well for me

The lighter bullets for self defence might run into problems but I havent seen any with 158 or 180HP. Speer bullets have just about dried up here in pistol calibres.

[Tassiebloke]

i used to hunt pigs years ago, and i mainly used my 30-30. my hunting buddy used his .357 mag though and he killed a lot more pigs than me. so yes, i'd say that a .357 mag is enough gun.

[mickb]

Any news from ADI fellas with Ar2205?

[bladeracer]

Any news from ADI fellas with Ar2205?

I got an email from them a couple weeks ago not to expect it before the end of next year, even that sounds like a stretch to me.

[mickb]

thanks blade, very bizarre. I dont see the connection to 2205 not being run and them being unable to make the actual pistol powders. They have a captive market right now, in fact they have had it for 2 years already.

Meanwhile Noia doesn t seem able to bring in anything, If tiger bullets can muscle a pallet of powder in and Bronze wing can manage half a container, hard to believe a company the size of Noia couldnt have ships from 4 different euro makers on the water in the same timeframe....

Some of those euro makers are advertising for more foreign agency as we speak so wtf is going on.