Lovex pistol powder shipment

[rc42]

The first shipment was 450kg and it sold fast to existing customers, it was sold as 500g powder with 1,000 projectiles and a maximum of 1kg powder per customer.

Another, larger, shipment is planned for next year, how big it will be and how it will be allocated is currently unknown but existing customers are certainly going to be at the top of the list.

[bladeracer]

Just now.

[Blr243]

When looking for powder for my 357 and with no 2205 in sight , i been having a bit of luck with 2207 and careful research prior to loading .. but its in my rossi lever , not in a handgun so i have some comfort factor there in the stronger action

[Dabi]

Got emailed about the first batch fof Lovex.

For your reference, 2000 123gr 9mm projectiles is $307, which makes Lovex $211/500g.

[bladeracer]

Got emailed about the first batch of Lovex.

For your reference, 2000 123gr 9mm projectiles is $307, which makes Lovex $211/500g.

I figured the compulsory bullet order only applied when buying directly from them, didn't realise it applied everywhere. So dealers that want to sell their powder also have to buy their bullets. $422/kg is very steep, especially when you also have to buy bullets you may not need or want.

[rc42]

Purchase of projectiles with powder was compulsory for individuals or dealers purchasing directly from Tigershark, it' was then optional for the dealers to pass that requirement on to their customers.
Q-Store in Brisbane chose not to and just put the projectiles onto their shelves but they limited powder purchase to one 500g tub for $120

I purchased two 500g tubs of D036 for $240 and four packs of 500 158gn/.358 RN at about $90 each so around $600 for 1kg powder and 2,000 projectiles.
The 123gn 9mm projectiles are lower cost so it looks like a big dealer markup down in VIC, to cover transport costs no doubt.

[bladeracer]

Latest.

[bladeracer]

Some more news.

[wanneroo]

Pistol powder is no longer a problem here in the USA. You might not get exactly what you want from one individual vendor but just about anything can be found if you look around.

[deye243]

Some of us are stripping shotty shells for powder .

[mickb]

lets hope they get enough powder in to no longer need these 'great deals' of all these 'extra projectiles'. As to the war in ukraine effecting lovex supply, not sure how that works. The czech republic is three countries away , borders germany and thus ships out of regular western ports. This war between two ex soviet dumps, neither even a top 10 economy, is getting blamed for more supply and price fluctuations than ww2.

[Oldbloke]

Yeh, Ukraine war.

The war uses about 1% extra of the world's diesel. Price went up,, what perhaps 20% .

Just gouging

[Diamond Jim]

Petrol burns, gun powder explodes. Although that is an over simplified.

Kg for kg, explosives are potentially far more dangerous. But that makes expensive to transport.

In addition. If petrol ignites and burns, it can be extinguished, not easy but can be.

Explosives, if they burn rather than explode, in the vast majority of situations it's impossible to extinguish.

... and yet road trains full of ammonium nitrate travel around the clock to service the mining industry. Tell the people of Beirut that stuff is safe.

Has there ever been a propellant explosion in transport? There have been quite a few carrying Ammonium Nitrate.

[Oldbloke]

"
Has there ever been a propellant explosion in transport?
A. To my knowledge not for a very long time. There have been design changes to powders over the years that make them inherently more difficult to ignite.
But it was very common say 80 years ago. Especially BP.


There have been quite a few carrying Ammonium Nitrate.
A. True, but it's transported daily in large quantities. Perhaps changes should be considered. It's pretty difficult to ignite.

The requirements are based on several risk factors.

[mickb]

ammo and powder is 1.4 haz aka small potatoes to transport. There are higher classifications and more dangerous codes on the roads all day every day, hundreds of types. For small companies, big companies, low cost and high cost.

[Oldbloke]

ammo and powder is 1.4 haz aka small potatoes to transport. There are higher classifications and more dangerous codes on the roads all day every day, hundreds of types. For small companies, big companies, low cost and high cost.

What are they?

You do realise the number 1.4 only represents the "type" of hazard. Not the risk level.

[geoff]

I don't think it makes much sense to compare the transport of propellant at a consumer reloading level to prilled ammonium nitrate being transported for the mining industry

The sheer scale difference alone makes it apples and oranges, not to mention that one is an oxidiser and the other an explosive.

[deye243]

Modern rifle powder is a propellant is not an explosive I set fire to 8 kilos one night did not explode but it was a rather bright purple flame for a while with an exceptional amount of heat

[bladeracer]

Modern rifle powder is a propellant is not an explosive I set fire to 8 kilos one night did not explode but it was a rather bright purple flame for a while with an exceptional amount of heat

It's not explosive but it does burn very fast and very hot. A well known contributor on a major US forum decided to dispose of some old powder, he got such severe burns he died from it. It's not something to get lax about.

[Diamond Jim]

Modern rifle powder is a propellant is not an explosive I set fire to 8 kilos one night did not explode but it was a rather bright purple flame for a while with an exceptional amount of heat

It's not explosive but it does burn very fast and very hot. A well known contributor on a major US forum decided to dispose of some old powder, he got such severe burns he died from it. It's not something to get lax about.

I wonder how a pallet of smokeless powder in retail packaging compares to 100T of bulk ammonium nitrate in terms of damage potential in, say, a vehicle fire. I know which one I'd rather be pointing a fire hose at.

[geoff]

Modern rifle powder is a propellant is not an explosive I set fire to 8 kilos one night did not explode but it was a rather bright purple flame for a while with an exceptional amount of heat

What was the setting when you set fire to it? What you're looking at here is the difference that even a little bit of confinement makes to ignition. If you mound up a pile of smokeless powder open to the atmosphere and hit it with a lighter....it will burn. If you confine the same amount of it in a vessel, even one with a lid as weak as a Milo tin or a beer bottle for example, it will be a catastrophic difference. The mound of powder on the lawn deflagrates, but it detonates when inside a Milo tin.

When I was a young pup in the blasting game we were on a training course and we had an old wrecked car up on a waste dump with no glass. We put a sausage of Buster on the back seat and detonated it....a satisfying crack and a cloud of dust but very little damage, really. We then loosely taped cardboard over the windows with duct tape. Barely sealed. The next sausage made a mockery of that car - I felt like I was watching Mountbattens boat! Sure, this was an example of detonation in both examples not deflagration, but the point here is that confinement is incredibly important and with respects to smokeless powder....makes all the difference.

https://www.interfire.org/res_file/def_det.asp

We all know this intuitively - when we load powder into a cartridge we are intending for it to detonate, not deflagrate. If all smokeless powder did was burn....it wouldn't be good for much. Just have a look at the VOD of some of the main constituents in smokeless powder - nitroglycerine for example - compared to AN or ANFO.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_o ... velocities

[Oldbloke]

Why don't we just use ammonium nitrate in cartridges?

[Apollo]

Why don't we just use ammonium nitrate in cartridges?

Because we are not in general as brainless as you. What a stupid reply.....

[bladeracer]

Why don't we just use ammonium nitrate in cartridges?

I doubt a conventional primer could detonate it.

[Oldbloke]

Why don't we just use ammonium nitrate in cartridges?

Because we are not in general as brainless as you. What a stupid reply.....

Good on you. As usual your so polite.
FYI the reason I asked the question was to prompt people to think about the difference in the two, Gun powder and AN.

A little info out of the DG Code and about AN.

1.1-1.5.JPG (93.33 KiB) Viewed 6286 times

1.6.JPG (24.84 KiB) Viewed 6286 times

Screenshot_20230315-143745_Samsung Internet.jpg (271.55 KiB) Viewed 6286 times

For those interested
Black powder is 1.1
Modern propellant's/powder 1.3
Ammo & primers 1.4
Ammonia Nitrate 5.1 its an oxidising agent.

Ill leave it to you Apollo to educate everyone here.

[geoff]

I really don't know why everyone is hung up on debating the merits of ammonium nitrate on its own when the real comparison is between smokeless powder and ANFO

If someone doesn't understand the difference between AN and ANFO (or an AN emulsion with a gasser) then their opinion on the matter can't hold much weight.

[Apollo]

Yes, "Oldbloke" just wants an argument and has no idea what the difference is between AN & ANFO.

Anyone can look it up and find out that AN is just a Fertiliser. Sure there has been some issues BUT they had their own very rare circumstances.

Got nothing to do with the topic.

The only person to educate here "Oldbloke" is yourself; so how about you go and do some more study.

BTW.... I have used ANFO for it's main purpose for many years, mixed my own to start with. I have used many, many tonnes of AN for it's main purpose.

[Diamond Jim]

Steady people, my initial comments were intended only to illustrate the relative dangers of bulk AN (granted, it's an oxidising agent but given the right conditions it can and does explode. Beirut is such a case. Fertiliser grade AN with no fuel oil involved.) v small commercial loads of smokeless powder.
As a former High School Chemistry teacher who used to teach this stuff, I know that prilled AN is NOT the same as ANFO (Ammonium Nitrate/Fuel Oil mix) and I'm sure all concerned are aware of that. OB backed his argument with reference to the DG code, resorting to insult means you've probably lost the argument.

However I, just for my curiosity, would like to know what "b" in his post went on to say "a" was a 5.1 oxidising agent but we never learned what the "b" option was.

[Oldbloke]

Yes, "Oldbloke" just wants an argument and has no idea what the difference is between AN & ANFO.

Anyone can look it up and find out that AN is just a Fertiliser. Sure there has been some issues BUT they had their own very rare circumstances.

Got nothing to do with the topic.

The only person to educate here "Oldbloke" is yourself; so how about you go and do some more study.

BTW.... I have used ANFO for it's main purpose for many years, mixed my own to start with. I have used many, many tonnes of AN for it's main purpose.

Apollo you should never make assumptions. If you only knew.


Apollo, AN not ANFO. BTW ANFO Iis not transported in bulk. (100t) Only AN


Diamond Jim said
"I wonder how a pallet of smokeless powder in retail packaging compares to 100T of bulk ammonium nitrate in terms of damage potential in, say, a vehicle fire. I know which one I'd rather be pointing a fire hose at."


And he is right, under the right conditions it does explode. He has mentioned Beirut. There was also a truck load a few years back up north and a couple of real beauts in the US. But its very rare.
Go for a trip to Newcastle, see how much is in storage there.

But which is easly ignighted? And Kg for kg, which has more energy? It's called explosive for a reason.
.
ANFO is mixed on site. To my knowledge not transported in bulk for obvious reasons.

I think you will find the reason AN is transported and stored in bulk is simply because of its high volume use in agriculture and industry. And someone some where decided the risk is acceptable to transportin bulk. (A necessary evil).
The risk of transporting all DGs is reduced (usually by controlling volumes and packaging class) where ever possible and as a consequence we pay a price. because our use is lower priority. The explosives industry is also very risk averse.

Tnx DJ

[Oldbloke]

A bit closer to topic.

Does anyone actually know just what transport adds to the cost of ammo and powder?