QLD Police - its just not cricket

[Oldbloke]

You really do have to wonder what goes on in some people head the moment they are given some authority. Bastards.

https://sportingshooter.com.au/news/a-d ... ead%20More

[deye243]

But but but all I hear from these assholes every week on the news is we live in a democracy

[Fionn]

Its pretty standard in most/all CAT's for the reason listed. Saves the applicant paying massive legal fee's if they lose.

Justice for the ordinary people.

[animalpest]

Its pretty standard in most/all CAT's for the reason listed. Saves the applicant paying massive legal fee's if they lose.

Justice for the ordinary people.

But do CAT'S / SAT's award costs?

[Fionn]

Generally they don't award costs if representing yourself, although if you are allowed to be represented by a lawyer they will consider awarding costs if merited, still its a higher bar then a court as it depends on the nature of the case, parties involved, nature of the dispute etc.

An advantage of representing yourself is that you will be given way more leeway with procedural matters, evidence and it will be taken into account during the case by the Member.

This isn't granted to the government/police.

[wanneroo]

The problem with police in Australia is that they are these huge statewide bureaucracies with no local elected accountability as we have here in the USA.

The police in Australia have way too much political power and seem to have forgotten their job is to enforce laws not craft or advocate for them or lobby for them. They seem to spend their time pushing their political agenda rather than building cases on criminals.

[Lazarus]

The problem with police in Australia is that they are these huge statewide bureaucracies with no local elected accountability as we have here in the USA.

The police in Australia have way too much political power and seem to have forgotten their job is to enforce laws not craft or advocate for them or lobby for them. They seem to spend their time pushing their political agenda rather than building cases on criminals.

I've been saying we have a police state here for ages

I've mentioned it here and been shown dictionary definitions that give narrow, black and white descriptions of examples of police states to prove I'm wrong.
But what you say is true.
They do act a driver of creation of laws and have a lot of skin in the political game, there's a plethora of academic as well as just media reports claiming the same.

One of the few flaws of living here in Ewe-topia.

[Oldbloke]

Generally they don't award costs if representing yourself, although if you are allowed to be represented by a lawyer they will consider awarding costs if merited, still its a higher bar then a court as it depends on the nature of the case, parties involved, nature of the dispute etc.

An advantage of representing yourself is that you will be given way more leeway with procedural matters, evidence and it will be taken into account during the case by the Member.

This isn't granted to the government/police.

Disagree.

They are removing your choice. The police are attempting to put you at a disadvantage. They know if you don't have a lawyer present they will likely win whether they are right or wrong. Clearly the police will have someone at the hearing with plenty of experience. The average shooter does not.

And I am starting to think others here who believe the country is becoming a police state are right.

[Oldbloke]

The problem with police in Australia is that they are these huge statewide bureaucracies with no local elected accountability as we have here in the USA.

The police in Australia have way too much political power and seem to have forgotten their job is to enforce laws not craft or advocate for them or lobby for them. They seem to spend their time pushing their political agenda rather than building cases on criminals.

That ^^^^

[Fionn]

Disagree.

They are removing your choice. The police are attempting to put you at a disadvantage. They know if you don't have a lawyer present they will likely win whether they are right or wrong. Clearly the police will have someone at the hearing with plenty of experience. The average shooter does not.

And I am starting to think others here who believe the country is becoming a police state are right.

They aren't removing your choice, as they can't remove it as you never had it to start with. Having a lawyer present does little to assist you in winning, having a good argument/case is far more important.

There is also nothing stopping you from paying a lawyer to prepare your case and advise you on how to present it and answer likely questions etc.

I think you will find that the issue is more that the person doesn't have a good case to start with and by the police not agreeing to lawyers, they save that person a considerable amount of money if they lose and cost are awarded.

See they are really looking after you.

[Oldbloke]

Your own words speak volumes.

QLD Police are deliberatly disadvantaging shooters. And you think its funny.

You don't belong here.

[on_one_wheel]

Probably belongs on a wannabe Police style forum or some other similar extreme right wing fascist style forum

[Fionn]

Your own words speak volumes.

QLD Police are deliberatly disadvantaging shooters. And you think its funny.

You don't belong here.

How unsurprisingly xenophobic of you

I guess that is one of the great things about Australia, we allow the moronic access to the justice system while still looking out for them and making sure they don't make the situation worst for themselves.

[Oldbloke]

Once again, what you say indicates you don't belong here.

[on_one_wheel]

Yeah, anyhow... hope ya keeping well OB

[Oldbloke]

It seems the officer is on duty and very bored. Currently no domestics in his district.

[womble]

I want Fionns imput.
I must insist he stays.
We don’t need an echo chamber here, a rounded perspective is more beneficial

[deye243]

How unsurprisingly xenophobic of you

I guess that is one of the great things about Australia, we allow the moronic access to the justice system while still looking out for them and making sure they don't make the situation worst for themselves.

Too late we don't even have the right to self-defence for christ sake

[womble]

We don’t have the inalienable right. But it’s still perfectly legal atm.

[Lazarus]

Something special isn't he, a real cut above the rest ... atleast in his mind.

What a douche

Screenshot_20230325-224236_DuckDuckGo.jpg

You left out the "n"

[bigrich]

I want Fionns imput.
I must insist he stays.
We don’t need an echo chamber here, a rounded perspective is more beneficial

i agree with you . robust debate is the cornerstone of democracy . the right to state your point of veiw and why you think it's valid .

the problems arise when people can't agree to disagree and the "discussion" turns into a name calling mud slinging match . just like federal politics ......

having said that , i don't agree with fionn

[bigrich]

Probably belongs on a wannabe Police style forum or some other similar extreme right wing fascist style forum

nah , more like a left wing socialist , the police/government are always right . communism/socialism put the "greater good" ahead of individual rights

[Oldbloke]

i agree with you . robust debate is the cornerstone of democracy . the right to state your point of veiw and why you think it's valid .

the problems arise when people can't agree to disagree and the "discussion" turns into a name calling mud slinging match . just like federal politics ......

having said that , i don't agree with fionn

Agree, but in the case of fionn it isn't debate. It's just an argument with the aim of pissing members off.

[Fionn]

Agree, but in the case of fionn it isn't debate. It's just an argument with the aim of pissing members off.

What is interesting is people like you who wish to cancel me are the exact type that complain about cancel culture, but as soon as someone disagrees with what you think is right, you want to apply cancel culture faster than a trans-teenage social justice warrior.

But you are right its not a debate as you don't have an opposing argument, you really just want to rant about something with out actually taking the time to understand it.

So rant away.

[Oldbloke]

Fionn must be right. The Police are going out of their way to help our mates in QLD. Everyone here agrees with him. He is omnipotent and we all look up to him with adoration.

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[bigrich]

while i support debate ,you are a bit of a argumentative sh1t stirrer fionn . i do get the impression your just trying to wind fellas up . your argument about legal representation for people fighting WLB wouldn't pass the pub test buddy .

[Fionn]

while i support debate ,you are a bit of a argumentative sh1t stirrer fionn . i do get the impression your just trying to wind fellas up . your argument about legal representation for people fighting WLB wouldn't pass the pub test buddy .

The problem is people generally don't like being told they are wrong and often don't even know what they are talking about, nor can be bothered informing themselves about it either when having a discussion, but they are still willing to argue against someone that does.

They don't even have an argument past, wanting blame the police and call it a police state etc

Stirring them is like shooting fish in a barrel.

The actual reason why you can't use a lawyer at QCAT has nothing to do with the police, its a QCAT requirement.

All parties involved in a matter before QCAT must represent themselves.

https://www.qcat.qld.gov.au/resources/l ... esentation

As to the reason why you can't, as I said its to keep cost down.

The tribunal’s purpose is to provide a quick, inexpensive avenue to resolve disputes between parties and make decisions.

https://www.qcat.qld.gov.au/about-qcat

Took all of 2 minutes to find that info and as I said before its the same for generally all CAT'S. Which is why I knew I would find it before spending that 2 minutes.

As to not being happy about not having a lawyer represent you, you always have the option when you lose at QCAT to appeal the matter to the Supreme Court.

You will be allowed to have your SC represent you there, but if you lose be prepared for a very large costs to be awarded against you. plus your own legal bill.

[on_one_wheel]

Perhaps it would make sense to deny everyone legal representation in ALL cases so as to save costs ... said no one ever, other than perhaps the qld police who's cases are probably so flimsy they wouldn't hold up against a fresh out if law school, legal aid lawyer.
Since when did the police start caring how much Joe Bloggs spends on representation?
Sounds extremely fishy, I'm amazed it's even legal.

Personally I think QLD police have something to hide like an unfair, biased and dishonest system.

[Fionn]

Perhaps it would make sense to deny everyone legal representation in ALL cases so as to save costs ... said no one ever, other than perhaps the qld police who's cases are probably so flimsy they wouldn't hold up against a fresh out if law school, legal aid lawyer.
Since when did the police start caring how much Joe Bloggs spends on representation?
Sounds extremely fishy, I'm amazed it's even legal.

Personally I think QLD police have something to hide like an unfair, biased and dishonest system.

QCAT and all CAT's are step one in the legal process, you and the police can appeal the outcome of the case to the Supreme court if you wish, where you will be allowed representation (as will the police) and be liable for your own legal fees and possible costs of the police if you lose.

That's why its so laughable when people cry its a police state, as QCAT gives you a very low cost way to challenge the police's decisions, its pretty much the opposite of a police state.

[Oldbloke]

Interesting idea of a fair justice system.

You get to represent yourself with zero legal experience and low cost up against a senior copper who's job it is to represent the QLD Police in QCAT and I'll bet he does that almost weekly.

When you lose, and you almost certainly will due to you lack of knowledge and court procedures. QLD Police just love that.
Through the generosity of the QLD Police who have the million dollar backing of the state governments, you get to hire perhaps the most expensive lawyer(s) (altjough very few could even consider doing this due to cost) in the country to represent you in the supreme court.

No wonder your so proud to serve.

Fionn, I'm so glad your on the side of sporting shooters. I have NFI how we would do without such a generous, intelligent, caring, and fair minded individual. We all admire and adore you.

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