Howa 1500 varmint 6.5 CM

[allthegearandnoidea]

Bought a Howa barrelled action and put it in a Bell and Carlson stock
Ive put a box of Sellier and Bellot 140 grainers through it today and managed sub .5 MOA with a 3 shot group at 100 metres. I'm hoping to be able to achieve 1" groups at 200
Has anyone reloaded SST 140's for this ? I'm not planning on bedding the action at this stage but has anyone got any advice on the hact trigger - it's seems pretty heavy to me - is it adjustable down to 1.5 lbs?

[SCJ429]

Well done. I have never had any luck getting SST to shoot well. Might be better of with a VMax if it suits the game you are after.

[allthegearandnoidea]

Thanks mate - I'll check them out

[Cooper]

I’d load ELD-M or ELD-X or even the 140gr HPBT projectiles. Depends what you can get? From memory the 140 SST Weren’t great in my Howa with 26inch Varmint barrel.

With factory spring the trigger won’t go much below 3lbs. I’ve used the 2lbs and 1.5lbs spring kits and they do exactly what they say. I got my springs from Gun Bloke. But often see negative reviews

[bigpete]

Different cartridge but I've had brilliant results using the SST in my 308,½" groups at 100m even with my s**t shooting

[JohnV]

A Howa in 6.5 CM is a sweet outfit . The Hornady SST has an interlock jacket design which means it has a bulge inside the jacket caused by the cannula operation .
Now this can be ok or it can cause a slight loss of gyroscopic stability . Core bonding can do the same . So that sometimes translates into a slight loss of accuracy . If the cannula operation is done badly and not in a concentric way that can further degrade accuracy .
I don't like cannula's much never use them in a bolt action rifle that's used for good accuracy .
The more operations that you do in making a bullet the greater the chance of some instability creeping in .
However hunting bullets that need specific terminal performance have to be more complicated than a standard cup and core .
Rifles are very picky about what bullets they like but usually you can tune them in a bit better by tweaking the seating depth and jump to the lands . Generally speaking Tangent ogive bullets will handle a jump to the lands better than a Secant ogive . Hybrid styles Tangent / Secant are supposed to be less picky but you still have to find their sweetspot .

[bigrich]

Bought a Howa barrelled action and put it in a Bell and Carlson stock
Ive put a box of Sellier and Bellot 140 grainers through it today and managed sub .5 MOA with a 3 shot group at 100 metres. I'm hoping to be able to achieve 1" groups at 200
Has anyone reloaded SST 140's for this ? I'm not planning on bedding the action at this stage but has anyone got any advice on the hact trigger - it's seems pretty heavy to me - is it adjustable down to 1.5 lbs?

congrats on your grouping/set up 140sst work really well in my 6.5x55 tikka t3 , B&C stock . sst seem hit and miss but. i'm on my second 30-06 , both shoot 150sst around 3/4 ", but both couldn't shoot 165sst under 1 1/2 when this happens i go to nosler accubonds or BT's .very consistant projectiles in performance . 165 nosler shoot around .8" in my 30-06 without much stuffing around . yes nosler's are more expensive , but these are hunting rifles and i value projectile ballistic performance on game over a little more cost. i've found the sst to be tempremental in some of my rifles, very reliable in my 6.5 tikka however
from what i've read 129sst are the go to projectile in the CM , or 130 accubonds for hunting projectiles . the swede is less limited with seating out in most magazines . depending on the rifle, the 130gn in the CM doesn't intrude on case capacity for powder as much as the 140's .
as for the trigger, i beleive their adjustable, but i fit timneys on my rifles if i want a better trigger . never felt the need to alter tikka/sako triggers but

i'm sure some CM shooters on this forum will be able to add more relevant info

[Lazarus]

I wasn't happy with the weight of the HACT pull even at its lowest, so I put a 1.5lb aftermarket spring into it and the difference was amazing.


https://highvelocityhuntingaustralia.co ... pring-kit/

[JohnV]

The thing with fitting triggers with lighter springs is you have to check after that the safety still operates correctly .
Make sure the gun is unloaded , cock and close the bolt . apply the safety . Pull the trigger a few times , bump the butt gently on a mat a few times and then slip the safety off . If the firing pin falls it's no good .

[bigpete]

Out of interest is anyone running speer 90gn TNTs in a 1 in 8 twist 6.5cm?

[allthegearandnoidea]

I'd be keen to hear about the Speer TNT's too - just bought a box to reload

[JohnV]

From what I remember the Speer TNT was a standard cup and core projectile I think the latest offerings have some kind of fluting inside the jacket at the ogive to aid quicker expansion not sure if that's on all calibers . This makes them basically the same construction as most BR bullets in so much as a simple design that limits variables . Been many years sine I fired a Speer bullet but I found them quite accurate as best I can remember in 224 . As a medium game bullet they should do quite well . Just don't expect them to hold together like a Speer Hot core or Woodleigh weld core . Accubond etc.
On a pig stay off the shoulder area , come back a bit to the heart lung area , the kidney , neck or behind the ear shot .
90 grainer should flatten goats , wild dogs and Fallow with a good side on shot . I can't say how explosive a 90 grainer would be but it's going to do a lot of damage in the boiler room of soft skinned game even if it looses most of it's mass . Just stay off the heavy bone areas .

[animalpest]

Speed TNT were my go-to bullet for roo and fox shooting. Accurate and quick kills.

They are terrific for goats in bigger calibres

[bigpete]

Out of interest is anyone running speer 90gn TNTs in a 1 in 8 twist 6.5cm?

So far that would be nobody it seems....

[SCJ429]

Out of interest is anyone running speer 90gn TNTs in a 1 in 8 twist 6.5cm?

So far that would be nobody it seems....

I have used TNTs out of a 7mm Rem Mag with spectacular results on critters under 80 kilos. Not sure if that helps you? Surprisingly accurate for a budget projectile.

[Larry]

I bought the same deal a year or two ago now. I put mine in a MDT Al stock accompanied by all the magpul bits and bobs. I shott mainly the 147 X eldm would have to visit the shed to find the last data on the load.

[bigpete]

Out of interest is anyone running speer 90gn TNTs in a 1 in 8 twist 6.5cm?

So far that would be nobody it seems....

I have used TNTs out of a 7mm Rem Mag with spectacular results on critters under 80 kilos. Not sure if that helps you? Surprisingly accurate for a budget projectile.

I believe I stated already I've used TNT projectiles in both 308 and 222. I'm trying to ascertain if the 90gn pill will stabilise,or overstabilise even, in a 1 in 8 creedmoor barrel,preferably from someone's actual experience rather than some online calculator

[JohnV]

If you tell me the exact overall length of the 90 Grain TNT and an approximate velocity I can calculate that for you .
The calculations are far more accurate than someones experience because experience and use varies . How hard you drive the bullet also has an effect on how much stability it gets from a certain twist rate . .264 cal .930 length @ 2900 fps 90 grain 8 twist has stability factor of 3.4 which is plenty .
It will start entering the trans-sonic zone at around 680 meters if it starts at 3000 fps chrony distance 10 meters Standard atmosphere at sea level . Due to fairly low BC of .281 G1 . It's probably gyroscopically stable out to longer range than that . I would need a bullet in hand to measure a lot of stuff to calculate long range stability and I don't have one . However from experience I would say it is slightly over stabilized so it should still be stable to around 1000 meters .

[bladeracer]

Out of interest is anyone running speer 90gn TNTs in a 1 in 8 twist 6.5cm?

So far that would be nobody it seems....

I have used TNTs out of a 7mm Rem Mag with spectacular results on critters under 80 kilos. Not sure if that helps you? Surprisingly accurate for a budget projectile.

I believe I stated already I've used TNT projectiles in both 308 and 222. I'm trying to ascertain if the 90gn pill will stabilise,or overstabilise even, in a 1 in 8 creedmoor barrel,preferably from someone's actual experience rather than some online calculator

The .264" 90gn TNT is only .900" long so will easily stabilise in an 8"-twist, it would probably work fine even in a 12"-twist.

[JohnV]

Speer says .900 but JBM says .930 . but it makes little difference to the outcome.

[bladeracer]

Speer says .900 but JBM says .930 . but it makes little difference to the outcome.

Yes, the manufacturer's numbers are what they designed the bullet to be, users numbers (like JBM) are averages from people that may not be particularly talented with precision tools - the truth is likely somewhere between the two

But variations in bullets and barrels mean it is never black and white, sometimes you get a bullet that works fine in one 10"-twist barrel but doesn't stabilise in somebody else's 10"-twist barrel. Only way to know for sure is to try it yourself.

[JohnV]

As far as I can see it will be a little over stabilized but I can't see that it would be any accuracy problem down range . That is true there is variations . It is better if I have an actual bullet in hand to measure . You can do more and even confirm the factory quoted BC which is another possible variable . A mate of mine had a new barrel fitted and he asked for a 1 in 10 fairly standard for a 308 but it turned out to be a 1 in 11 twist which is common for some target shooters . He was pissed . So I always suggest people actually measure their twist rate even if you only get close to the real number you can get a handle on what twist it is .

[SCJ429]

Out of interest is anyone running speer 90gn TNTs in a 1 in 8 twist 6.5cm?

So far that would be nobody it seems....

I have used TNTs out of a 7mm Rem Mag with spectacular results on critters under 80 kilos. Not sure if that helps you? Surprisingly accurate for a budget projectile.

I believe I stated already I've used TNT projectiles in both 308 and 222. I'm trying to ascertain if the 90gn pill will stabilise,or overstabilise even, in a 1 in 8 creedmoor barrel,preferably from someone's actual experience rather than some online calculator

The RPM from the Remington Magnum would be equivalent or exceed that produced by the CM case using similar bullets. The TNT projectiles will not fall apart at these revs, only one way to find out and that is to buy a box and shoot them.
As for worrying about not enough RPM to stabilise the bullet, if a 1:8 barrel isn't fast enough, what twist rate would you need? One in eight is far more than this little bullet would ever need.
My experience with the 6.5 CM is only with heavier and longer bullets which is where the fast 1:8 twist comes in handy.

[SCJ429]

I have used a TNT in a 1:8 6mm barrel, when fired from a 243AI at speeds over 4,100 fps the bullets did experience jacket failure and did not reach the target. If you are expecting the Creedmoor to produce those sort of velocities you may have the same issues.

[straightshooter]

As far as I can see it will be a little over stabilized but I can't see that it would be any accuracy problem down range . That is true there is variations . It is better if I have an actual bullet in hand to measure . You can do more and even confirm the factory quoted BC which is another possible variable . A mate of mine had a new barrel fitted and he asked for a 1 in 10 fairly standard for a 308 but it turned out to be a 1 in 11 twist which is common for some target shooters . He was pissed . So I always suggest people actually measure their twist rate even if you only get close to the real number you can get a handle on what twist it is .

The (so called) standard for 308 is 1 in 12", the (so called) standard for 30-06 is 1 in 10".
The 1 in 11" twist would most likely be in a custom target barrel and not in a cheaper sporter barrel however don't discount the possibility that your friend measured the twist incorrectly.
Too much twist has some deleterious effects such as core separation and worsening of accuracy for given projectiles compared to an optimum twist.
"Over stabilisation" is a shooters misnomer. I
According to the present state of knowledge of Physics it is not possible for a spin stabilised projectile, which is essentially a gyroscope, to be over stabilised.

[JohnV]

The modern rifles have 1 in 11 in many 308's but in my day most were 1 in 10 .
I measured the twist rate and it was 1 in 11 which is not what he ordered .
I can assure you that projectile can be over stabilized ( meaning over spun ) and it will cause some increase in precession and can assist in blowing up jackets . The TNT should be ok as long as it's not pushed too hard because it's a thin jacket and the inside of the jacket is scored to make it more explosive .