Caveman Annealing Equipment

[Wm.Traynor]

With the arrival of my Tempilaq yesterday, I set about making a gas bottle retainer with the wood offcuts that had lain around for years.
I can hear you all asking, "Why" (for Pete's sake), when none of the Yt vids showed anything remotely like that. Well, I just didn't want to knock over a flaming gas torch in my garage is why.
This experience has taught me the it would have made more sense to go to Bunnings and get some new bits of cheap, planed and thicknessed softwood. For instance, the 35 mm particle board, that came from my scrap heap, actually splits when you drive a screw into it
I have a few bits cobbled together, in between chores, which will probably do but be aware Dear Members that thick particle board is made of two sheets glued together, which makes it look sturdy but it splits along the glue-line
I am persevering. the load or stress on this thing could not possibly be severe but it goes to bear out the old saying,"The road to Hell is paved with good intentions".

[on_one_wheel]

Don't worry, if you're using Tempilaq, your annealing method is far from caveman style

[No1Mk3]

Pre-drill the screw hole a little over the root diameter of the screw, use PVA glue on the joint and you should avoid splitting.

[Wm.Traynor]

Thank you gentlemen

[Oldbloke]

Sooo, what's the plan?


I'm waiting with great expectations.

[Wm.Traynor]

Sooo, what's the plan?


I'm waiting with great expectations.

Well, the easy part is finished, that being a kind of box screwed to a long piece of MDF, Wheatbix or Particle Board. This is to stop me knocking the gas bottle over when it's alight.
I anticipate aiming the case from a position at right angles to the direction of the flame. That is just for now but I might change my mind. The case etc will be spun with a battery operated drill but just how it will be supported is what I will find out tomorrow.

[on_one_wheel]

I use a ¼" drive deep socket on a short extension.
You'll find that deep sockets expose only the portion you'll be aiming to anneal.
Find a deep socket that your brass fits into loosely enough that when you tip it down the brass falls out, that way the moment you hit the required temperature you can dump it into a bucket of water to ensure the heat doesn't radiate too far beyond the shoulder.

[Wm.Traynor]

on_one_wheel
Last week I got a 12mm deep socket for my 30/06 cases and an adaptor. Haven't had the chance to try it all out for real yet but everything fits so I have to work out how to hold the drill steady in the flame.
Last night we had a blackout and had to light candles, so now I know that there are matches

[Oldbloke]

Wm, I just held the drill when I used it. A battery screw driver will works too provided the socket fits. Aim the flame at the case shoulder.

But last few times I just did it manually with a handle of ally tube (old tv aerial) pushed onto the "case holder" the SIL made for me. (Top left of pic.) First time a bit of wooden dowell with a hole drilled in the end to take the case. Lol
Works fine and I now excusively use the small "pencil" torch in the pic for both 30.06 and 223.

Edit: the small diameter of the ally tube makes turning it very efficient, and it's very light weight. It isn't rocket science.

[Oldbloke]

Found the pic I was looking for.
"Case holder" with ally tube.
223 cases and "pencil" gas tip.

The smaller tip does take a bit longer, but, gives greater control IMHO.

Resized_20231001_111902.jpeg.jpg (223.41 KiB) Viewed 5953 times

[Oldbloke]

Just watched this video.
It's an accuracy test. Annealing every time Vs not annealing at all.

Mmmmm,,,, me thinks some of us spend too much time and money annealing brass.

For me, i loose every 5th or 6th case i fire in the field. Probably just wasting my time annealing.

https://youtu.be/YWUw6tyzE7U?si=Yw08N2Y6GwypIOrk

[Wm.Traynor]

One of my aims with annealing, was to lengthen case life. In particular, that of 30/06 cases. One of them suffered a split neck after not many firings.

[Oldbloke]

One of my aims with annealing, was to lengthen case life. In particular, that of 30/06 cases. One of them suffered a split neck after not many firings.

Agree. I now anneal all brass when I first acquire it. Was doing every time I sized. Recently changed to every second time I size.

If your into target go for it. But I think if your hunting just every 4 or 5 would be plenty.

[Oldbloke]

Hey, WmT, how did you decide to do it?

[Oldbloke]

Hey, WmT, how did you decide to do it?

[Wm.Traynor]

Hey, WmT, how did you decide to do it?

Well That's the question isn't it?
That split neck had been on my mind for a very long time, in which a lot of Yt videos were studied, to do with how to anneal. I never gave up the idea even though a lot of the gear was either waaay expensive or to do with DIY electronics. I am a dunce at electronics, so no going there for me.
Along the way, I was thinking about neck tension because there was a lot of neck expansion after firing, in my cases. I reckoned that was a recipe for premature neck splitting and that FLS or even just neck sizing, would hasten neck splitting. Therefore I reasoned that annealing would lelp prolong neck life by softening the brass and delaying the onset of a brittle condition, which encouraged splitting. I reckoned that called for mandrel neck sizing dies, because you can have one custom made to be a bit bigger in diameter than standard. Have not used them yet but will see what they measure when reloaded compared to the diameter of the neck after firing. Hopefully, there won't be as much difference as with the standard FLS die. Otherwise I will order a bigger mandrel and worry about whether or nor it has enough grip on the bullet, later.

Holy Cow! It's my bedtime. Been another big day, so have a read of that OB and we will catch up tomorrow

[Larry]

I think youre on the right track if that is any help. Other than the caveman thing. the more consistent you can do the process the better the results you will have on the cases on the target and in the field. Good luck stick with it.

[Oldbloke]

It's no where near as critical as some try to make out.

https://youtu.be/9HfjRKrbYbo?si=2lHh-DgLEJ1of8D-

[Wm.Traynor]

It's no where near as critical as some try to make out.

https://youtu.be/9HfjRKrbYbo?si=2lHh-DgLEJ1of8D-

Thank you OB. Boy does he bust some myths and Holy Cow!, how about those contradictions in the comments!
Never mind. I will continue using Tempilaq. That will be my guide.
And Oldbloke, I had never seen that video even though I have seen heaps. I think that all I can do it and see if it works

[Oldbloke]

Wm,
Once you learn to count to 7 or 8 you won t need the tempilaq.


Do it in near dark. As soon as you see dark blue/grey or any red, it's done.

[Fester]

As we are using thin brass cases and re-size them many times, I feel that annealing is just part of the process.

It solves those "springy brass" problems we all run into when the cases are FLRSed but spring back a little after going through the die.
Consistent neck tension is a real thing but I only anneal after every 4 firings.
Some of my batches have gone around 20 times now.

The other tip that helped me was learning to adjust the FLRing die to get minimal headspace.
I now trim far less than I did when just setting the dies up to factory instructions.

Will be good to see how you go using the tempelaqu stuff as lots of blokes under anneal and won't get the full benefits.
I was getting the nice coloring exactly like ADI bought ammo but I think you do need to get to the cherry red stage to bring the brass back to it's original softness after work hardening.
I still avoid bright red but you want more than just a bit of blue.

I think that 2nd pic from Old Bloke shows an under-annealed batch.
If it was FarceBook I would see 50 posts calling BS but I am pretty sure its the truth of the matter.
You definatly don't need water and its just anthoth step (drying them)

[Oldbloke]

Agree with all that Fester


My under annealed brass. ??? Perhaps. Hard to say. In any case will get done again after 3-4 fireings. So no big deal.

[on_one_wheel]

It's certainly a better scenario than over annealing brass, there's no turning back once you've burnt the zink out.

[Oldbloke]

Yes but it would take about 10 - 15 seconds of bright red or more to do that.