WA Firearm Law Reforms - Monday 16 October announcement

[Barbarian]

https://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/Parliament/commit.nsf/(Report+Lookup+by+Com+ID)/F68E4BD25190B0A748258B160013F70A/$file/79730165.pdf

Link to the Legislative Committee report. Some of the answers from the police minister’s representative are worth a read.

[alexjones]

Reading that bill there is nothing really bad for gun owners but now they are going to search people at shopping centers without warrant?

That so called "Jacks Law" really aggravates me to no end. I seen his parents on the news praising it and all I can think of is you are proud that your sons name is now synonymous for molesting people and violating their personal liberty? I get they are sad their son is dead however they are brainwashed and delusional as so called 'public safety' should never trump peoples personal liberty.

Police searching people without a court warrant or reasonable cause IE they saw you put a knife in your waistband is beyond reprehensible.

Remember Blackstone’s formulation? That it is better that 10 guilty people go free than one innocent person suffer.

I would be repulsed if my son was murdered than the government used his name to promote destroying peoples personal liberty. Maybe if Jack was allowed to conceal carry he would of been able to defend his life? How about that?

[Oldbloke]

Sporting Shooters comments.

https://sportingshooter.com.au/gun-law/ ... ead%20More

[on_one_wheel]

WA Premier Roger Cook ...
“I thought it was a proper petition. It is just an epetition, is it?”

Get with the program Roger

[Oldbloke]

WA Premier Roger Cook ...
“I thought it was a proper petition. It is just an epetition, is it?”

Get with the program Roger

I noticed that too.
Ummm,,,, I that means he intends to ignore it. It's his way of saying GAGF

[on_one_wheel]

He's a stereotypical example of the personality that volunteers for a position of power.

This in a nutshell is exactly what's wrong with the world.

[alexjones]

He's a stereotypical example of the personality that volunteers for a position of power.

This in a nutshell is exactly what's wrong with the world.

What's worse? Their personality or the personality of people (IE you, me and everyone on here) who allows them to control us?

[on_one_wheel]

He's a stereotypical example of the personality that volunteers for a position of power.

This in a nutshell is exactly what's wrong with the world.

What's worse? Their personality or the personality of people (IE you, me and everyone on here) who allows them to control us?

What's worse ..... those who force their own ideals onto the masses who have little to no say in how our country is governed despite the general consensus of the population.

Are your suggesting we simply ignore the decision makers and just do what we want?

[alexjones]

He's a stereotypical example of the personality that volunteers for a position of power.

This in a nutshell is exactly what's wrong with the world.

What's worse? Their personality or the personality of people (IE you, me and everyone on here) who allows them to control us?

What's worse ..... those who force their own ideals onto the masses who have little to no say in how our country is governed despite the general consensus of the population.

Are your suggesting we simply ignore the decision makers and just do what we want?

Seeing how this website is being monitored by who knows what I am not suggesting that. I Love tyranny. I wish the Americans let the British keep molesting them instead of fighting back.

I am however suggesting we each get involved at the political level. Because we will continue to be ruled by our inferiors until we do. I have started to make pamphlets about how good freedom is to put in letterboxes in my community. Hopefully it starts to get people interested in freedom. I need to somehow have access to schools. I would love to do like lectures and teach kids about freedom. I am good at public speaking. I feel like old people are to brainwashed but if we can get to the younger generations about adopting freedom things may improve.

[Tomotron]

It's disappointing that Cook has ignored the petition and has not gone against Papalia, but it's not surprising given the untouchable position of WA Labor.

[mchughcb]

He's a stereotypical example of the personality that volunteers for a position of power.

This in a nutshell is exactly what's wrong with the world.

What's worse? Their personality or the personality of people (IE you, me and everyone on here) who allows them to control us?

What's worse ..... those who force their own ideals onto the masses who have little to no say in how our country is governed despite the general consensus of the population.

Are your suggesting we simply ignore the decision makers and just do what we want?

Seeing how this website is being monitored by who knows what I am not suggesting that. I Love tyranny. I wish the Americans let the British keep molesting them instead of fighting back.

I am however suggesting we each get involved at the political level. Because we will continue to be ruled by our inferiors until we do. I have started to make pamphlets about how good freedom is to put in letterboxes in my community. Hopefully it starts to get people interested in freedom. I need to somehow have access to schools. I would love to do like lectures and teach kids about freedom. I am good at public speaking. I feel like old people are to brainwashed but if we can get to the younger generations about adopting freedom things may improve.

You think this site is monitored? The question is by who? The fat sargent that was promoted from traffic camera duties?
Back in the day before facebook I'm sure there were cops logging in hoping that somebody would be stupid enough to incriminate themselves. These days morons just post illegal stuff of facebook gloating about it providing all the information are just asking to be investigated.

[on_one_wheel]

Everything is monitored, calls, SMS, emails, public forums, every frequency ever used for communication including all the dots and dashes on the long waves.
They use technology to flag anything of interest, from that point humans sift through the mess looking for something genuine.
Don't for one second believe that law enforcement agencies wait for a warrant, when they find something of interest they seek a warrant, everything from that point can be used in court.
When they don't have time for one they act regardless if they truly believe lives are in danger.
Here's just one example of how quickly they can react to a text sent from someone who isn'teven on their radar.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ndtv.c ... 1716/amp/1

[Oldbloke]

It's all filtered/checked by computers.
Email, texts, Web sites etc. When certain words or combinations are picked up the gears start clicking. Then a person gets involved.

You can bet in some way this forum is being scanned.

[Oldbloke]

Bit more info.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/wa-gu ... 801ae53b17

[darklazor]

Reading that bill there is nothing really bad for gun owners

Have a watch- https://vimeo.com/945103243

[Faedy]

Ive got every part of my body crossed hoping they invoke the "Grand Father" rule - I read something yesterday that said only 2.8% of LFAO in WA currently exceed the 5/10 limit, so they pose no risk...

[on_one_wheel]

The grandfather rule sucks.
People accept it because they don't give a flying f*** about the next generation of shooters.

[Barbarian]

Ive got every part of my body crossed hoping they invoke the "Grand Father" rule - I read something yesterday that said only 2.8% of LFAO in WA currently exceed the 5/10 limit, so they pose no risk...

I’d be stoked if they grandfather existing licenses but I doubt it, given their stated objective is to remove guns from licensed owners.

That said, in practice grandfathering existing licenses means absolutely nothing without a like-for-like replacement guarantee or clause in the new act or regulations as the moment you want to replace one of your existing firearms it’s highly likely they would simply refuse to allow a replacement as it would pot you over the new limit.

[1886]

That's not how a grandfather clause works. It's you keep what you now have but if you get rid of any they cannot be replaced.

Word is if you cannot met the new rules immediately you will have 12 months to do so otherwise they will be confiscated etc.

I trust all those that signed the petition will NOT be voting for Labor come 2025 as these total muppets must be set packing for not only this scenario.

[bigrich]

I trust all those that signed the petition will NOT be voting for Labor come 2025 as these total muppets must be set packing for not only this scenario.

mate , that's a understatement and a half..... labor are just turning into a socialist/communist party . they seem to be even worse in the west . i'll be voting for the "kat in the hat" from FNQ, and "auntie pauline" as always next election in QLD . as well as other conservative independent's

[Oldbloke]

I trust all those that signed the petition will NOT be voting for Labor come 2025 as these total muppets must be set packing for not only this scenario.

mate , that's a understatement and a half..... labor are just turning into a socialist/communist party . they seem to be even worse in the west . i'll be voting for the "kat in the hat" from FNQ, and "auntie pauline" as always next election in QLD . as well as other conservative independent's

Yes, best strategy.
The two parties are full of professional politicians. SFA real life experience. NFI what it's like for the average Joe blow.

The more independents the better. I know, some are far from great. But at least the house is then more of a reflection of our society with perhaps new ideas and understanding rather than just towing the party lines.

I havnt voted for a major party for God knows how long. They always go to the bottom.

[1886]

No. Guys from a WA perspective all WA guys here should vote Liberal in the lower house at the next election as voting for independents etc will not defeat Labor so they will once again do what they wish. They have again shown their total arrogance by again indicating they are NOT going to take any notice of the recent record petition .

Elections are a total numbers game which you have to reach or by joining in with others. Thus, whilst it may ease the mind to vote for independents etc that will not make a change which is needed and not just because of this issue.

If Lab & Lib get tied numbers they will then scramble with independents to make up the required number to win, which could mean Labor retain Govt to our further detriment. By all means vote for shooters and fishers or others in the upper house but not the lower house being a total waste which will not achieve a change.

As an example this is an amendment to this proposed act that will be introduced in the upper house by the Libs which basically is a grandfather clause but it will no doubt be defeated due to NUMBERS. But if the Libs win the next election outright !!!!!

437A. Operation of Act modified in relation to certain licence holders under 1973 Act
(1) In this section —
existing licensed firearm, in relation to an existing licence holder, means a firearm that immediately before commencement day was named and identified in the holder’s Firearm Licence or Firearm Collector’s Licence under the 1973 Act; existing licence holder means a person who —
(a) immediately before commencement day, held a Firearm Licence or Firearm Collector’s Licence under the 1973 Act; and
(b) at all times since the beginning of commencement day, has held or been taken to have held a licence under Part 2 or a firearm authority under section 411 or 417.
(2) This Act applies in relation to an existing licence holder with the following modifications —
(a) for the purposes of section 30, 58 or 125 (as the case requires), the maximum number of firearms that a licence, or a licence for any particular licence purpose,
held by the existing licence holder can apply to at any one time is —
(i) if the total number of existing licensed firearms of the existing licence holder exceeds the maximum number of firearms that would otherwise apply under section 30, 58 or 125 (as the case requires) — that total number; or
(ii) otherwise — the maximum number of firearms that applies under section 30, 58 or 125 (as the case requires);
(b) the Commissioner cannot impose a requirement under section 148 on, or in respect of, the existing licence holder unless the Commissioner believes on reasonable
grounds that it is likely that the existing licence holder does not meet the firearm authority health standards;
(c) the Commissioner cannot use the effect of paragraph (a) or (b) as a reason (direct or indirect) for doing any of the following —
(i) refusing to grant a firearm authority to the existing licence holder;
(ii) if the Commissioner grants a firearm authority to the existing licence holder — refusing to apply the firearm authority to an existing licensed firearm of the existing licence holder or to any other firearm;
(iii) doing anything else to the disadvantage of the existing licence holder.

[Oldbloke]

Yes, independents in upper house is most effective.

But, I don't vote for them in either.

LNP in the John Howard club.
LAB is too green.

[darklazor]

Sporting shooters- worth a read
https://sportingshooter.com.au/gun-law/wa-oppositions-push-back-against-new-gun-laws/

[Barbarian]

That's not how a grandfather clause works. It's you keep what you now have but if you get rid of any they cannot be replaced.

Word is if you cannot met the new rules immediately you will have 12 months to do so otherwise they will be confiscated etc.

I trust all those that signed the petition will NOT be voting for Labor come 2025 as these total muppets must be set packing for not only this scenario.

To be fair, 12 months is more generous than I was honestly expecting of the Stasi.

Also heard new safe requirements look like being 6mm door and 4mm wall and they are still banging on about QR codes and an app + CCTV cameras of your safes that they can access.

Between that and the inevitable lawsuits that will arise out of the new medicals for discrimination I think the eventual implementation will be a long, drawn out clusterfuck.

[Oldbloke]

That's not how a grandfather clause works. It's you keep what you now have but if you get rid of any they cannot be replaced.

Word is if you cannot met the new rules immediately you will have 12 months to do so otherwise they will be confiscated etc.

I trust all those that signed the petition will NOT be voting for Labor come 2025 as these total muppets must be set packing for not only this scenario.

To be fair, 12 months is more generous than I was honestly expecting of the Stasi.

Also heard new safe requirements look like being 6mm door and 4mm wall and they are still banging on about QR codes and an app + CCTV cameras of your safes that they can access.

Between that and the inevitable lawsuits that will arise out of the new medicals for discrimination I think the eventual implementation will be a long, drawn out clusterfuck.

That is just STUPID.

[bigrich]

It's all filtered/checked by computers.
Email, texts, Web sites etc. When certain words or combinations are picked up the gears start clicking. Then a person gets involved.

You can bet in some way this forum is being scanned.

Absolutely this forum is being monitored. You’d remember some of the strange new members years ago OB who got on this forum asking some very strange questions about semi autos and who seemed to be “fishing “ for far right views.

[bladeracer]

Absolutely this forum is being monitored. You’d remember some of the strange new members years ago OB who got on this forum asking some very strange questions about semi autos and who seemed to be “fishing “ for far right views.

The assumption _must_ be always that _anything_ you put online _anywhere_ can become publicly available, including email, SMS, private forums, private chats and messages, anything. If it goes through other peoples' servers then you have to assume that other people can gain access to it, even if it might theoretically require subpoena to get it.

There was a kid in the UK in 2022 who said jokingly, in private chat with some mates, that he was "in the Taliban" and was going to blow up the aircraft while he was boarding a flight to Spain. Fighter jets were sent up to escort the aircraft very, very quickly and Police were waiting for him in Spain. That was on SnapChat, supposedly private and encrypted. His statement must've been in the hands of "the security service" within minutes of him making it to have fighters scrambled and onto him within the hour. Perhaps he was seen sending it via one of the thousands of security cameras that the UK has become famous for, in which case he didn't even need to be online.
https://www.ndtv.com/indians-abroad/british-indian-man-aditya-verma-on-trial-in-spain-for-in-flight-taliban-joke-acquitted-4941716

If you do or say _anything_ on any device connected online you _must_ expect it to be seen by people you didn't intend. A couple of years ago there was a long spate of FB users having Police knocking on their doors over FB posts they'd made years before, so it seems there was/is an effort to delve into peoples' online personas looking for ways of prosecuting them over things long forgotten.

[Oldbloke]

Absolutely this forum is being monitored. You’d remember some of the strange new members years ago OB who got on this forum asking some very strange questions about semi autos and who seemed to be “fishing “ for far right views.

The assumption _must_ be always that _anything_ you put online _anywhere_ can become publicly available, including email, SMS, private forums, private chats and messages, anything. If it goes through other peoples' servers then you have to assume that other people can gain access to it, even if it might theoretically require subpoena to get it.

There was a kid in the UK in 2022 who said jokingly, in private chat with some mates, that he was "in the Taliban" and was going to blow up the aircraft while he was boarding a flight to Spain. Fighter jets were sent up to escort the aircraft very, very quickly and Police were waiting for him in Spain. That was on SnapChat, supposedly private and encrypted. His statement must've been in the hands of "the security service" within minutes of him making it to have fighters scrambled and onto him within the hour. Perhaps he was seen sending it via one of the thousands of security cameras that the UK has become famous for, in which case he didn't even need to be online.
https://www.ndtv.com/indians-abroad/british-indian-man-aditya-verma-on-trial-in-spain-for-in-flight-taliban-joke-acquitted-4941716

If you do or say _anything_ on any device connected online you _must_ expect it to be seen by people you didn't intend. A couple of years ago there was a long spate of FB users having Police knocking on their doors over FB posts they'd made years before, so it seems there was/is an effort to delve into peoples' online personas looking for ways of prosecuting them over things long forgotten.

Yep, correct.

I've slipped up on the odd occasion but generally careful about what I post anywhere.

[1886]

............And an app + CCTV cameras of your safes that they can access..........

Haven't heard of that but it won't happen as first it would be impossible to establish due to costs.

But moreso it would be a gross invasion of privacy having cops able to look inside your room whenever they wish. Browneye comes to mind. They would need a host of desk wombats monitoring 80,000 plus rooms, sheds, barns etc 24/7. Impossible and a major privacy issue.

Ironically, you may recall previously if you had a general monitored home security system installed with movement monitors etc, if it went off the company would contact you but the cops would attend asap. But the cops ceased doing this years ago due to false alarms. Seems to me if they believe the above is essential then why not go back to the future and actually attend any alarms from firearm owners premises. Nah, lets have a room full of desk wombats with mattress's.