How can this happen ?

[Die Judicii]

Anybody got any idea or reasonings as to how such vast differences can occur with one particular projectile,,,, in the following instances ?

Caliber > .308
Projectile > Speer 130gr HP

In three separate instances I have had three totally differing results that I have no idea or explanation for.

Instance #1
Shot a Hare at 175 meters, and it literally exploded into minced meat, leaving only one back leg intact. (Chest shot)

Instance #2
Shot a Feral Cat at 185 meters, with an instant kill but zero obvious entry or exit hole. (Chest shot)

Instance #3
Shot a Pig at 180 meters with an instant kill. Entered through shoulder and into the lungs.

Why such varied results at almost exactly the same meters range ?

With the same ammo and rifle I've shot other pigs (also chest shots) and had the projectile explode on the surface and Mr Porky just kept running.
I would expect that,,,,,,,, being HP's,,,,,,, but this last one (pic) it went straight in through the lot.
There seems to be no rhyme nor reason.

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[Oldbloke]

How fast are they going?


Looks to me that are thin cupped, soft.
They are designed to expand/explode pretty fast.

Small variations in resistance, e.g. bone, no bone, can give variable results. Hit a rib/shoulder, explode, miss the rib, more or less normal result or whistle through.

Personally, I don't think you can go far wrong with a basic cup and core SP., something like interlock sp or hotcore sp.

I use interlocks in my 30.06, I get variable results too if I miss bone.

When you pull the trigger the variables are huge.
Hit bone.
Miss bone.
Close.
Far
Big animal.
Small animal.
Muddy shoulder
No mud

What Bullet will do it all??

Perhaps use a 150gr sp bloody popular.

[Oldbloke]

I'll assume they are doing abt 2950fps or more.

They will likely be more reliable if you slow them down to abt 2750fps. The 130gr sp in one of my 30.06s is doing that. Nice mushrooms in fallow at abt 130yards.

[on_one_wheel]

Projectile speed
Projectile construction
Angle of entry
Distance travelled through tissue.
Contact with bone.

You can cross the first 2 variables out.

[Die Judicii]

Projectile speed
Projectile construction
Angle of entry
Distance travelled through tissue.
Contact with bone.

You can cross the first 2 variables out.

Yeah Mate, but I can't figure the difference between the cat and the hare.
Both thin skinned and similar body weight/density.
Bones almost insignificant.
One blows up,,,,, one passes straight through like a laser and does little to zero damage.

And yet on the pig where by all rights, the projectile should've exploded on the surface,,,,, but instead goes all the way into the boiler room.

[bigpete]

Did the animals die ?
Looks like the projectiles did what they were meant to.

[bigpete]

As for hares,I've shot them and foxes with the old 125gn soeer tnt in my 308 and the same results. I'm thinking hares have lots of blood which possibly makes them explode. Dunno though

[Oldbloke]

No experience using them. But my impression is that the more frangable type projectiles can be less reliable/predictable in how they react. Esp if driven very fast.

Just my 2c

[Larry]

muscle mass and fat content and make up. not all fat is the same. some like jelly and other like grissle.

[wrenchman]

I like speer and shoot there bullet I don't think 130 hp is made for hogs or deer i would try to find something a little different like oldbloke said try a s.p

[bigpete]

I like speer and shoot there bullet I don't think 130 hp is made for hogs or deer i would try to find something a little different like oldbloke said try a s.p

The 130gn hot cor is too hard for light thin skinned game in my experience but I believe would be fantastic on medium light skinned game like fallow and pigs besides maybe big crusty boars

[animalpest]

I think what happens on occasion is that the hollow gets plugged with skin and doesn't open up. Had that happen on the rare occasion with my 30/06 and .308's.
That and the suggestions above. I have used these alot on everything up to goats and they a normally dynamite.

[bigpete]

I've sometimes wondered if they don't expand that quick that the petals fold back on themselves and the base just keeps pushing through

[Oldbloke]

I like speer and shoot there bullet I don't think 130 hp is made for hogs or deer i would try to find something a little different like oldbloke said try a s.p

The 130gn hot cor is too hard for light thin skinned game in my experience but I believe would be fantastic on medium light skinned game like fallow and pigs besides maybe big crusty boars

I'm also convinced the interloks are on the hard side.
Recently had a 180gr pass through on a sambar hind, chest shot. Opened up on far side shoulder. About thumb sized exit. DOA
BUT, few years ago shot a fox with one 160 yards, face on, gutted it.
But not moving very fast, (2550fps) have now increased velocity by abt 100fps. (2650fps IIRC. I might "tip' these)
I just bought 200 165gr interlocks to load when i run out of 180gr. They will be about 100fps faster again. (2750fps IIRC)

Thing is, if it works great at 100 yards might not do so well at 300 yards. Same hit bone or not hit bone.

I have enough bullets to out last me now.

[Oldbloke]

I think what happens on occasion is that the hollow gets plugged with skin and doesn't open up. Had that happen on the rare occasion with my 30/06 and .308's.
That and the suggestions above. I have used these alot on everything up to goats and they a normally dynamite.

I've heard of that elsewhere.

[Die Judicii]

I like speer and shoot there bullet I don't think 130 hp is made for hogs or deer i would try to find something a little different like oldbloke said try a s.p

What I didn't mention this time round is that I specialize in hunting and killing feral dogs.
That is the only reason why I'm out there most nights,, and the 130gr Speer HP's are chosen for that job.
If I get the opportunity to get a cat or hare I do so for bait carcasses.

The owner of the property where I got the pig,, had told me the pig had been seen hanging around, and if I got the opportunity to shoot it,,,, please do so.
Thats why I took the shot using the 130 gr HP,,,,,,,, because I didn't have any other ammo that night.

[Die Judicii]

I think what happens on occasion is that the hollow gets plugged with skin and doesn't open up. Had that happen on the rare occasion with my 30/06 and .308's.
That and the suggestions above. I have used these alot on everything up to goats and they a normally dynamite.

I think what you say there about the "hollow" may have got clogged up,,,,, makes a lot of sense to me.
Thanks.

[Oldbloke]

I'm also using Hornady 130 gr SP Varmint #3020 doing abt 2950fps. Shot two fallow bucks both about 120yards. Found a nice mushroom under the skin. Abt 85% weight IIRC.
Should work ok for your use.

[Die Judicii]

Prior to swapping over to the 130gr HP's in 308 I was using 55gr Varmint Express out of the 22/250
The reason I swapped was because the 22/250 55 gr Varmint Express was not always getting the job done satisfactorily.
For the last 18 months or so we've had an influx of dogs that are larger than usual.
There seems to be two main cross breed infusions that are showing up regularly.

One with distinct German Shepherd hair along the back line and tail areas,,,, (the pic of 2 dogs) Foreground is the Mother, and the background is her pup with German Shepherd like hair down the backline and the tail.

And one with maybe Border Collie that regularly presents in the more Dingo types as a white ruff around the neck or chest blaze.
The large male with the white ruff around the neck took 3 55gr Varmint Express in the boiler room before it stopped.
(see pics)

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[mickb]

I think what happens on occasion is that the hollow gets plugged with skin and doesn't open up. Had that happen on the rare occasion with my 30/06 and .308's.
That and the suggestions above. I have used these alot on everything up to goats and they a normally dynamite.

i tend to agree this might be a factor. Also maybe the HP encounters bone too early.You see some tests of hollowpoints on hard targets, (eg the yanks love shooting stuff into ply board, gyprock and pig bones etc) and a HP may outpenetrate softpoints- being if they hit something hard early the HP closes over and acts like a FMJ.

[Die Judicii]

I think what happens on occasion is that the hollow gets plugged with skin and doesn't open up. Had that happen on the rare occasion with my 30/06 and .308's.
That and the suggestions above. I have used these alot on everything up to goats and they a normally dynamite.

i tend to agree this might be a factor. Also maybe the HP encounters bone too early.You see some tests of hollowpoints on hard targets, (eg the yanks love shooting stuff into ply board, gyprock and pig bones etc) and a HP may outpenetrate softpoints- being if they hit something hard early the HP closes over and acts like a FMJ.

Good point,, methinks.