Need help translating these bits

[Zappa]

If the door is hinged - have a fixed locking bar or dogging bolts welded to the inside face of the door near the hinge edge that engages or engage in a rebate in the container body when the door is closed; and

A locking mechanism must be securely fixed to the rear face of the door of the container by retaining screws and a metal strap overlapping, or enclosing, the locking case with each end welded to the rear door face.

[deye243]

It seems pretty self explanatory what parts are you having trouble with

[Blr243]

What state is this ?

[deye243]

What state is this ?

According to his sig he's in the ACT

[Wyliecoyote]

Should have said "if the hinges are external". Basically a tag, pin or internal flange where if the external hinges were to be cut off, the door being closed, and still locked, the tags/pins/flange prevents the door being pried open. Being rebated prevents the door then being lifted or pushed down to access what is inside.
The second bit is pointless if the main lock body is inside the closed container. As it would be. The assumption here is the lock could be driven off its mount so a captive box would prevent that. Quite difficult to do through a key slot.

[No1Mk3]

if by "these bits" you mean the bold type in your post, then it is what it says, the inside of the door on the hinge side must have bolts or straps welded in such a way that they fit behind the edge of the safe when closed, so that if the hinges are cut the door still will not open from that side. The other part simply says the lock mechanism inside the safe must have a strap welded over it to stop it being forced off the door.

[Zappa]

Should have said "if the hinges are external". Basically a tag, pin or internal flange where if the external hinges were to be cut off, the door being closed, and still locked, the tags/pins/flange prevents the door being pried open. Being rebated prevents the door then being lifted or pushed down to access what is inside.

That's what i presumed they were referring to, external hinges. All safes are hinged. It could have been worded better to remove ambiguity. Many safes have concealed hinges and do not have the pins on the 'hinge' side.

The second bit is pointless if the main lock body is inside the closed container. As it would be. The assumption here is the lock could be driven off its mount so a captive box would prevent that. Quite difficult to do through a key slot.

I agree. Redundant statement as locks are all enclosed with a container welded to the door. "Strapping the lock" is an antiquated term.

I would assume these conditions are targeted for people making their own safes but adds confusion for people buying commercial safes, As todays safes appear to be made to a benchmark standard.

Good post WCoyote.

[Bugman]

Again. What state is this info in relevance to? NSW, Victoria, Qld etc. etc?

[bladeracer]

If the door is hinged - have a fixed locking bar or dogging bolts welded to the inside face of the door near the hinge edge that engages or engage in a rebate in the container body when the door is closed; and

A locking mechanism must be securely fixed to the rear face of the door of the container by retaining screws and a metal strap overlapping, or enclosing, the locking case with each end welded to the rear door face.

Part one they want a steel lug that folds around the body of the safe when the door is closed so the door can't be pulled forward.

Part two they want the locking mechanism securely attached to the inside of the door.

Basically, they don't want it to be possible to tear the door off the front of the safe or punch the locking mechanism off the back of the door.

[Zappa]

Basically, they don't want it to be possible to tear the door off the front of the safe or punch the locking mechanism off the back of the door.

Even if you were successful in punching the lock through, how on earth would it retract the pins and pop the door open?
ACT storage regulations need updating. Last act ammendnemt was 2008.

[bladeracer]

Basically, they don't want it to be possible to tear the door off the front of the safe or punch the locking mechanism off the back of the door.

Even if you were successful in punching the lock through, how on earth would it retract the pins and pop the door open?
ACT storage regulations need updating. Last act ammendnemt was 2008.

If the locking pins aren't secured to the door then it'll simply be a matter of moving them out of the way once you pull the door off. Most of the cheaper safes don't have full-length pins, they're just a few inches long around the edges of the door. If you can punch the lock off the back of the door the pins are just held there by loose linkage rods. The regs are trying to cover all possible designs, which rarely works. They updated ours recently to simply say that the receptacle must be purpose-designed for firearm storage, the onus is still on us to ensure they're secured well enough not to go missing.

I had to open an old rifle safe and a pistol safe last year that didn't have keys when I was given them. Neither were very difficult to get open, the rifle safe only needed a magnet to move the blocking piece and the pistol safe had obviously had its hinges cut off at least once before and welded back on. I opened a floor safe a couple years ago that I was given and that put up much more of a fight as it was an actual safe, not a simple pistol safe. I think I had to punch the lock through that one then reach in with probes to move the linkages. It was double-skinned with walls about two-inches thick and filled with powder.

[bladeracer]

That's what i presumed they were referring to, external hinges. All safes are hinged. It could have been worded better to remove ambiguity. Many safes have concealed hinges and do not have the pins on the 'hinge' side.

Not all safe doors are hinged, some have a separate door that lifts out, more common on floor safes and pistol safes. Yes, it's much better to have internal hinges. To get into a pistol safe that had external hinges I simply cut through the welds holding the hinge blocks to the safe (maybe two minutes with an angle grinder), but because the door had a steel lug hooked inside along the hinged edge I couldn't simply lift the door out. I still had to get the lock off the inside of the door to allow me to lift the latched side a couple inches to allow that hinge locking lug to pass through the opening.

[Zappa]

The regs are trying to cover all possible designs, which rarely works. They updated ours recently to simply say that the receptacle must be purpose-designed for firearm storage

That would be preferable than trying to cover all permutations. Seems like they formulated the regs asking a boilermaker to make one from scratch. back in 1996

If you can punch the lock off the back of the door the pins are just held there by loose linkage rods

I still cant see how they would move the rods without cutting open a substantial hole to swivel in a strong earth magnet at least.

Not all safe doors are hinged, some have a separate door that lifts out, more common on floor safes and pistol safes.

OK. Given the absolute vast majority are buying commercial ready, long arm safes, then it's pretty safe to presume hinges on all. I've yet to see a lift door on a safe advertised as a pistol safe. Wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea if they'd had to move 5-10kgs everytime they opened a safe. I can't imagine it being popular.

[bladeracer]

OK. Given the absolute vast majority are buying commercial ready, long arm safes, then it's pretty safe to presume hinges on all. I've yet to see a lift door on a safe advertised as a pistol safe. Wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea if they'd had to move 5-10kgs everytime they opened a safe. I can't imagine it being popular.

I haven't seen all the safes on the market but I would tend to agree that most will have hinged doors. My pistol safe I bought in 1990, the door is a little awkward but not too difficult to handle, and weighs perhaps two kilos. It slots into a groove in the bottom (or "hinged" side) then latches at the other side. Being in the end of the safe rather than the side the door is only about 250mm by 200mm square. The door is recessed into the safe about 30mm so impossible to get a pry bar into it. Mounted to the floor and two walls in the corner of a cupboard it's very unobtrusive. I'm hoping it'll hold around ten handguns otherwise I'll need another one.