Safe storage of .22 rifle in caravan?

[Precise-Plinker]

Hello everyone, this is my first post, I hope I'm in the correct topic site. Please redirect me if I'm wrong.
We are travelling full time, and I need to know where or how I can safely and legally store a .22 magnum rifle?
A caravan has very limited spare space for the fitting of a gun safe, but I'm sure it can be done.
I would like to ask fellow members who have been in this same position, how did you get around this predicament?
Thank you, Peter.

[alexjones]

Hello everyone, this is my first post, I hope I'm in the correct topic site. Please redirect me if I'm wrong.
We are travelling full time, and I need to know where or how I can safely and legally store a .22 magnum rifle?
A caravan has very limited spare space for the fitting of a gun safe, but I'm sure it can be done.
I would like to ask fellow members who have been in this same position, how did you get around this predicament?
Thank you, Peter.

What State and or territory are you travelling in? Seeing as laws are not national.

[Oldbloke]

"What State and or territory are you travelling in? Seeing as laws are not national."
alexjones

He is full time. Likely most states. But he does need to clarify.

If I'm right it's a mine field. As he doesn't have a permanent address. He may be considered "itinerant". You need an official place of storage for the rifle and residential address.

What state is the firearm registered?
You must have a "primary " address"? (City,town)
Where is all your mail directed to? A relatives house?


If you install a safe in the caravan you may find it will make your van over weight?! You should check on a weigh bridge.


May I suggest.
If you are registered at a permanent address you are just travelling. (On holidays) Normal state regulations for travelling with a firearm would likely apply. That is how I would approach it.

Locked hard case, bolt removed and stored separately, ammo locked in small tool box separately.

However W.A. is a nightmare

[Beno]

Look at it this way. If you get pulled over and asked why you have a firearm onboard what are you going to say? Genuine reasons give firearms users a reason to posses a firearm away from its storage location. What’s your reason? if you are shooting all over the place they might ask where and how long this will occur. You may have to notify the registry that the firearm is going on a holiday. In NSW i think you have to notify the registry if your firearm is not at is primary storage location after 14days.

[bladeracer]

Hello everyone, this is my first post, I hope I'm in the correct topic site. Please redirect me if I'm wrong.
We are travelling full time, and I need to know where or how I can safely and legally store a .22 magnum rifle?
A caravan has very limited spare space for the fitting of a gun safe, but I'm sure it can be done.
I would like to ask fellow members who have been in this same position, how did you get around this predicament?
Thank you, Peter.

When we lived in the bus for two years I mounted a rifle safe in it, in WA you would need a second safe for your ammo. When I was living in a caravan for a couple years working in the northwest I simply bolted a steel toolbox to the floor under one of the beds, but a toolbox would not be legal storage in WA nowadays.

[alexjones]

My understanding of QLD law is you can't drive around with a firearm in your car unless you are using it the purpose of the licence. IE driving to and fro a range, property to shoot on or a dealer. Weapons Regulation Section 5

You would have to travelling for the SOLE purpose of shooting. With ranges booked out in advance and you must take the direct route between them.

[Oldbloke]

Just noticed. He is from W.A.

[bladeracer]

May I suggest.
If you are registered at a permanent address you are just travelling. (On holidays) Normal state regulations for travelling with a firearm would likely apply. That is how I would approach it.

Locked hard case, bolt removed and stored separately, ammo locked in small tool box separately.

However W.A. is a nightmare

If he is simply "travelling" then he would have to have legitimate reasons to be taking his firearms with him, competition entries, property letters, state forest bookings, etc. If he is living in the vehicle for an extended time then it is legally his residence and he is allowed to have his personal possessions with him, including his firearms.

Yes, WA is a nightmare.

In all states except WA you can simply borrow somebody else's firearm if you have an opportunity to shoot a competition or do some hunting so it may be simpler to leave them in storage somewhere in WA (they can be stored at any address, it doesn't have to be your own). I found it more relaxing when we didn't have the firearms with us. Whenever we stopped, one of us always remained with the vehicle when we had firearms onboard and we were more careful about where we stopped, without the firearms we felt more free to enjoy the places we visited without worrying about break-ins. With the caravan if we had to leave the van somewhere and go to town then the firearms went in the vehicle with us rather than leave them in the van. I think all states have the stipulation that the primary concern with firearms is to take all reasonable efforts to ensure they don't become accessible to people that shouldn't have access to them.

[bladeracer]

My understanding of QLD law is you can't drive around with a firearm in your car unless you are using it the purpose of the licence. IE driving to and fro a range, property to shoot on or a dealer. Weapons Regulation Section 5

This is correct in all states. But if you are living in a vehicle, it is your residence, it becomes a grey area. I'm not aware of any law that requires you to leave your firearms somewhere else when living mobile.

[alexjones]

My understanding of QLD law is you can't drive around with a firearm in your car unless you are using it the purpose of the licence. IE driving to and fro a range, property to shoot on or a dealer. Weapons Regulation Section 5

This is correct in all states. But if you are living in a vehicle, it is your residence, it becomes a grey area. I'm not aware of any law that requires you to leave your firearms somewhere else when living mobile.

Yes you are right mate. If he is just travelling around with a gun in his car then it is ilegal. However if his van is his permanent residence then it would be legal.

You know how the registry must have your storage address. How would that work in regards to having a mobile residence? Would you have to inform the registry at every location? or Beforehand where you intend on going?

[bladeracer]

Yes you are right mate. If he is just travelling around with a gun in his car then it is illegal. However if his van is his permanent residence then it would be legal.

You know how the registry must have your storage address. How would that work in regards to having a mobile residence? Would you have to inform the registry at every location? or Beforehand were you intend on going?

Yes, that's the grey area part. Our laws don't specifically allow for it yet, so it does come down to the officer on the day. With it becoming so common though it's only a matter of time until we see laws covering extended travelling.

WA is the only state that requires you to notify Police when entering that you have interstate-registered firearms with you, and you require temporary permits as they don't recognise other states' registrations.

[Oldbloke]

May I suggest.
If you are registered at a permanent address you are just travelling. (On holidays) Normal state regulations for travelling with a firearm would likely apply. That is how I would approach it.

Locked hard case, bolt removed and stored separately, ammo locked in small tool box separately.

However W.A. is a nightmare

If he is simply "travelling" then he would have to have legitimate reasons to be taking his firearms with him, competition entries, property letters, state forest bookings, etc. If he is living in the vehicle for an extended time then it is legally his residence and he is allowed to have his personal possessions with him, including his firearms.

Yes, WA is a nightmare.

In all states except WA you can simply borrow somebody else's firearm if you have an opportunity to shoot a competition or do some hunting so it may be simpler to leave them in storage somewhere in WA (they can be stored at any address, it doesn't have to be your own). I found it more relaxing when we didn't have the firearms with us. Whenever we stopped, one of us always remained with the vehicle when we had firearms onboard and we were more careful about where we stopped, without the firearms we felt more free to enjoy the places we visited without worrying about break-ins. With the caravan if we had to leave the van somewhere and go to town then the firearms went in the vehicle with us rather than leave them in the van. I think all states have the stipulation that the primary concern with firearms is to take all reasonable efforts to ensure they don't become accessible to people that shouldn't have access to them.

Not just "travelling" on holidays. Therefore could be going hunting etc.

I think storage requirements in all states require a safe bolted to floor or wall, including studs. Vans dont have solid construction. So, he can't comply with normal storage requirements. In any case steel safes are heavy, most likely too heavy for the van.

He is from WA making it even more complex/difficult.

Just leave it at home, if you can do this.

Or change residential address to another state, Inc FAL etc.

Like I said, it's a nightmare.

[alexjones]

May I suggest.
If you are registered at a permanent address you are just travelling. (On holidays) Normal state regulations for travelling with a firearm would likely apply. That is how I would approach it.

Locked hard case, bolt removed and stored separately, ammo locked in small tool box separately.

However W.A. is a nightmare

If he is simply "travelling" then he would have to have legitimate reasons to be taking his firearms with him, competition entries, property letters, state forest bookings, etc. If he is living in the vehicle for an extended time then it is legally his residence and he is allowed to have his personal possessions with him, including his firearms.

Yes, WA is a nightmare.

In all states except WA you can simply borrow somebody else's firearm if you have an opportunity to shoot a competition or do some hunting so it may be simpler to leave them in storage somewhere in WA (they can be stored at any address, it doesn't have to be your own). I found it more relaxing when we didn't have the firearms with us. Whenever we stopped, one of us always remained with the vehicle when we had firearms onboard and we were more careful about where we stopped, without the firearms we felt more free to enjoy the places we visited without worrying about break-ins. With the caravan if we had to leave the van somewhere and go to town then the firearms went in the vehicle with us rather than leave them in the van. I think all states have the stipulation that the primary concern with firearms is to take all reasonable efforts to ensure they don't become accessible to people that shouldn't have access to them.

Not just "travelling" on holidays. Therefore could be going hunting etc.

I think storage requirements in all states require a safe bolted to floor or wall, including studs. Vans dont have solid construction. So, he can't comply with normal storage requirements. In any case steel safes are heavy, most likely too heavy for the van.

He is from WA making it even more complex/difficult.

Just leave it at home, if you can do this.

Or change residential address to another state, Inc FAL etc.

Like I said, it's a nightmare.

QLD allows safes that weigh over 150kg to not be bolted. But only for Cat A,B and C firearms. They can also be made of wood.

So I guess you could have a 150kg safe in a van?

It seems like a hassle doesn't it. Easier to just shoot at a range with the ranges guns or at a friends place with their guns.

[Oldbloke]

"So I guess you could have a 150kg safe in a van?"

No way. Even a 50kg safe would likely put the van over its ATM rating. (Permitted loaded weight)

But the only way to find out is put the van over a weigh bridge.

[bladeracer]

That's the grey area, when travelling you can't comply with secure storage requirements, but as you are travelling you don't have to. You can supply any address as your storage address though, your firearms are not required to be left there while travelling.

I haven't weighed the safe I used but it's a 14-rifle safe (1460x500x350mm). I just picked it up and would guess it weighs around 50kg. I could've gotten away with the 5-rifle safe I bought later on for the purpose of travelling, that one probably weighs more like 30-35kg, it's very handy for putting in and out of a vehicle.

I definitely agree that leaving them in storage somewhere while travelling is probably easier. In most states, for hunting you need to have permissions from property owners as there is no public land (in NSW there is but you will need an R licence permission), so unless you have a portfolio of property owners' letters before you head off, I doubt "hunting" will be considered an acceptable reason to be travelling with firearms. All states have various shooting clubs, but I would print the calendars of all clubs along your route if you want to have some support for your excuse of intending to shoot at clubs while travelling. In Victoria you can travel all around the state stopping to shoot and/or hunt at state forests open to shooting, without requiring any permissions or bookings.

Not just "travelling" on holidays. Therefore could be going hunting etc.

I think storage requirements in all states require a safe bolted to floor or wall, including studs. Vans don't have solid construction. So, he can't comply with normal storage requirements. In any case steel safes are heavy, most likely too heavy for the van.

He is from WA making it even more complex/difficult.

Just leave it at home, if you can do this.

Or change residential address to another state, Inc FAL etc.

Like I said, it's a nightmare.

[bladeracer]

QLD allows safes that weigh over 150kg to not be bolted. But only for Cat A,B and C firearms. They can also be made of wood.

So I guess you could have a 150kg safe in a van?

It seems like a hassle doesn't it. Easier to just shoot at a range with the ranges guns or at a friends place with their guns.

You don't need to comply with secure storage requirements while travelling, they refer to a specific address where your firearms "are normally stored". I wouldn't lug a 150kg safe around in a vehicle or van. It would certainly be possible to tuck it into the rear cargo bay of the Coaster bus but I wouldn't want the weight.

[alexjones]

Yes but if your van is your permeant residence do you not have to comply with the permeant storage requirements and not the transporting requirements?

The police commissioner can issue an exemption for storage so maybe this is possible for people in this situation.

For instance in QLD for cat H you must have your safe bolted regardless of its weight. However you could apply for an exemption if your safe is something ridiculous like 400kg(or more). They might not except it but you can apply.


I hate all gun laws and this is another reason why. By making a law about storage it creates confusing situations that good law abiding people try to navigate. And the only way to fix this law is to make another law then another etc.

[Oldbloke]

What would a 3 gun safe weigh?

This has been discussed before. I've had a fairly close look at it in the past. And it's bloody messy. Most vanners have "weight" issues. Not easy to comply. I lightish safe may be doable. Again, weight the van.

Just 3-4 months in a van is doable but still need to avoid WA.

Your pulled over police ask you about the rifle, the answer is:

your on a holiday, I intend to go hunting or shoot at a few ranges.
Storage is as required for each state in van or ute for travelling. Generally speaking, separate storage for ammo, bolt, rifle. All under lock and key would be ok.

And where is his place of residence? WA, they won't make it easy.

[Precise-Plinker]

Thank you everyone for you replies.
I would like to firstly note that I always practice safe firearm management and abide by all legal requirements, without question.
I'll clarify some points;
We are from Qld, have a Qld firearms licence, member of SSAA, member of Qld gun club.
The firearm at present is stored safely and legally in a gun safe at home.
I have one firearm, a Winchester .22 magnum lever action rifle,
I rarely go hunting anymore, although opportunities to shoot vermin (dogs & cats) on a cattle station has recently arisen, otherwise I enjoy club target shooting.
We are in a caravan and have been travelling for the past 2 years and expect to continue for a few years longer.
We are now in WA.
We are considering settling in WA permanently and I am in the process of applying for a WA gun licence.
I can fulfill all WA application criteria.
I have discussed the topic of safe storage with the WA firearms branch and have been allowed to install a gun safe in the caravan.
That leads me back to my original question: 'Safe storage of a .22 rifle in a caravan', have others done this, what type of safe did you use and where did you fit it within the van?
The smallest safe that I have been able to find is a 3 gun safe. Does anyone know of a single, 1 gun (rifle) safe?
Weight does not pose a problem, I can get around this.
Once again, I appreciate your replies.
Peter.

[alexjones]

Good luck in WA mate. Going from QLD to WA as a legal gun owner must be hell.

One year paper licences, No PTAs, no like for like swaps, cant ship a gun to your home, serviceability certificates, appearance laws, cant use other peoples gun. And the law about brass being ammo. I am sure I am missing more but that's the gist of it. It is the most anti gun jurisdiction in this federation.

[bladeracer]

Good luck in WA mate. Going from QLD to WA as a legal gun owner must be hell.

One year paper licences, No PTAs, no like for like swaps, cant ship a gun to your home, serviceability certificates, appearance laws, cant use other peoples gun. And the law about brass being ammo. I am sure I am missing more but that's the gist of it. It is the most anti gun jurisdiction in this federation.

In WA brass is not considered ammo but bullets are.

[bladeracer]

Thank you everyone for you replies.
I would like to firstly note that I always practice safe firearm management and abide by all legal requirements, without question.
I'll clarify some points;
We are from Qld, have a Qld firearms licence, member of SSAA, member of Qld gun club.
The firearm at present is stored safely and legally in a gun safe at home.
I have one firearm, a Winchester .22 magnum lever action rifle,
I rarely go hunting anymore, although opportunities to shoot vermin (dogs & cats) on a cattle station has recently arisen, otherwise I enjoy club target shooting.
We are in a caravan and have been travelling for the past 2 years and expect to continue for a few years longer.
We are now in WA.
We are considering settling in WA permanently and I am in the process of applying for a WA gun licence.
I can fulfill all WA application criteria.
I have discussed the topic of safe storage with the WA firearms branch and have been allowed to install a gun safe in the caravan.
That leads me back to my original question: 'Safe storage of a .22 rifle in a caravan', have others done this, what type of safe did you use and where did you fit it within the van?
The smallest safe that I have been able to find is a 3 gun safe. Does anyone know of a single, 1 gun (rifle) safe?
Weight does not pose a problem, I can get around this.
Once again, I appreciate your replies.
Peter.

I wouldn't apply for a WA licence if you're only considering living there, if you get it your Qld licence is immediately lost, and if you then decide not to stay there you have to apply again in whichever state you do decide to stay in.

In the bus I used the 14-rifle safe and mounted it just inside the door. The dining table is just to the right of the door as you step in so I took out the forward seat and mounted the safe there instead and draped a sheet over it so it just looked like a cupboard. In a van I would bolt it through the floor frame under one of the beds. My 5-rifle safe is about 200mm square and maybe 1200mm tall with a bolt box in the top - it's not tall enough for my M96 Swede or M1903 Turk. It doesn't have a handle, just a keyhole, and you pull the door open with the key, no handle is very good when it's in the rear footwell of the car. You could shrink a larger safe by cutting around it and welding it back together.

[Oldbloke]

If your from interstate with interstate FAL you can only legally carry a firearm in WA for 3 months IIRC.

[bladeracer]

If your from interstate with interstate FAL you can only legally carry a firearm in WA for 3 months IIRC.

I don't know if there's an exemption if you are moving and applying for a licence, but a visitor can only register an interstate firearm for a maximum of six months. You can buy the temporary permit for a max of three months and renew it once only. If your temp permit expires they expect you to hand your firearms in for destruction.

[Oldbloke]

If your from interstate with interstate FAL you can only legally carry a firearm in WA for 3 months IIRC.

I don't know if there's an exemption if you are moving and app[lying for a licence, but a visitor can only register an interstate firearm for a maximum of six months. You can buy the temporary permit for a max of three months and renew it once only. If your temp permit expires they expect you to hand your firearms in for destruction.

OK, up to 6 months then.
My point was, he can't stay in WA indefinitely with a QLD FAL and firearm.

[bladeracer]

If your from interstate with interstate FAL you can only legally carry a firearm in WA for 3 months IIRC.

I don't know if there's an exemption if you are moving and app[lying for a licence, but a visitor can only register an interstate firearm for a maximum of six months. You can buy the temporary permit for a max of three months and renew it once only. If your temp permit expires they expect you to hand your firearms in for destruction.

OK, up to 6 months then.
My point was, he can't stay in WA indefinitely with a QLD FAL and firearm.

Definitely can't keep an interstate-registered firearm longer than six months, but I think you can maintain an interstate licence as long as you are not taking up residence, once you become resident you have a short time to make a licence application.

[Oldbloke]

We need a HUGE chain saw so we can set WA free. It can drift off into the Indian Ocean.

[Precise-Plinker]

Thanks guys, I appreciate your responses, but they, just like a bad day on the range, have missed the point.

I have and am dealing with the legal application side of things. Thank you.

I primarily need to know, does anyone know of a single rifle gun case on the market?
The smallest I can find is a 3 weapon gun case.

Thanks again.

Peter.

[Oldbloke]

Smallest I've seen is 3 firearm safe.

[alexjones]

If money is no concern to you than get one custom built based on your rifles measurements. Otherwise as old bloke mentioned, the smallest I have seen is a 3 gun safe. Which is very small as it is for a rifle safe.