blokes not fit to own guns

[mickb]

I notice coming back to mining as an industry how many of these fellas must play up as a lot wished they could own guns but cant. I dont delve into the exact nature of their infractions but in a few cases I was dissappointed to hear it was due to punchups years ago. Im assuming there are a range of other offences which preclude people from owning guns . Where else do you lose the rights to do something or maintain a hobby so easily.

If a fella maliciously chops down the neihgbours tree with a chainsaw he doesnt lose the right to enter hardware stores or own tools for 10 years.

If a bloke committs any crime whilst drunk he isnt banned from consuming for ten years.

If a bloke doesnt fence a pool or get council permission for a shed he doesnt lose the ability to ever build one again.

I also reject the idea a bloke who gets charged for a punch up is always too dangerous to own a gun for 5 or 10 years. If he wanted to use a gun to hurt someone, he would have done so.

Also what other sport gets you banned for leaving something like a loose 22LR cartridge rolling around when you take the car to a mechanic. There is a 1000% more chance of someone getting hurt from people leaving car keys out at night where teenagers can flog them for joyrides...

They seem to have taken a mechanism to prevent hardened pyschos from owning guns and mis using it as a tool to reduce ownership

[Die Judicii]

[Wapiti]

Well you all recently saw both Labor AND the Coalition sign that latest "Qld Community Safety Bill 2024" which pretty much reinforces coming down on firearms owners with even more insidious infringements.

Shooters Union, KAP, One Nation, all warned Queenslanders to protest and try and influence significant changes so this wouldn't happen yet still protect victims of crime. Sure, people ticked an electronic box in protest but otherwise that's all they did.

It was the last straw for me politically, I jumped ship and have now seen the pointlessness of these political parties. I bet it hasn't changed too many other people's minds though, they all have their heads in the sand. Oh well, today is the day, those who can see through the cheap bribes and lies might make change. Might.

Good point though, out here, the biggest crimes with guns, shooting people's animals, drunken lawlessness on the remote roads, poaching and just simply disrespecting landowners out here, is most definitely dominated by mine and gas workers on R&R. And it's all fueled by alcohol.

[bigrich]

the biggest crimes with guns, shooting people's animals, drunken lawlessness on the remote roads, poaching and just simply disrespecting landowners out here, is most definitely dominated by mine and gas workers on R&R. And it's all fueled by alcohol.

and it's all too hard for the coppers to make the effort to clean this up . after some tragedy , due to inaction by authorities , they'll be clamouring for more restrictive laws . just like WA ......

i'm a shooters union member (as well as ssaa), and put ON , shooters and fishers ,and KAP as first preferences when voting . have done for years . i know people that whinge , but don't get off their ar$e to vote . general apathy , some will justify their inaction by saying it's all rigged and pre ordained . or their just lazy and can't be f@cked .
the defeat of "the voice" vote is proof that people power can change things . everyone i come into contact with , i promote voting for independants, who can hold the balance of power and stop bad policies .

evil men triumph when good men fail to act .....

[bigpete]

There's a lot of people with firearms licences who shouldn't have them too I reckon...

[alexjones]

As far as I am concerned if someone is fit to be in society than who am I to deny their basic human right to own a firearm? Either have them locked up in jail if they are a criminal or let them be to live their life so long as they are not harming others.

[Larry]

Most refusals I would bet would be due to getting busted for drugs in some way.

[bigrich]

There's a lot of people with firearms licences who shouldn't have them too I reckon...

yes, fortunately their a small minority . but their stupidity tars us all with the same brush with authorities and the general public thanks to the media

[bigpete]

There's a lot of people with firearms licences who shouldn't have them too I reckon...

yes, fortunately their a small minority . but their stupidity tars us all with the same brush with authorities and the general public thanks to the media

I know people who take great delight in torturing animals and getting blind drunk while out shooting,yet still got a licence. They definitely shouldn't have one imo

[Oldbloke]

There's a lot of people with firearms licences who shouldn't have them too I reckon...

yes, fortunately their a small minority . but their stupidity tars us all with the same brush with authorities and the general public thanks to the media

I know people who take great delight in torturing animals and getting blind drunk while out shooting,yet still got a licence. They definitely shouldn't have one imo

correct

[MtnMan]

Plenty of blokes lose their guns because their ex Mrs wants to be vindictive and make false, malicious and frivolous DV claims.

It's an epidemic actually. Claiming DV always helps if you want the kids, house etc and make your ex lose their job. (Some occupations will cancel your practice registration in the case of DV) and nobody is allowed to question it.

[Shootermick]

Plenty of blokes lose their guns because their ex Mrs wants to be vindictive and make false, malicious and frivolous DV claims.

It's an epidemic actually. Claiming DV always helps if you want the kids, house etc and make your ex lose their job. (Some occupations will cancel your practice registration in the case of DV) and nobody is allowed to question it.

I very narrowly avoided this exact scenario.
The ex threatened to make a false accusation just to have my firearms seized, but she thankfully never went through with it.

[Oldbloke]

Plenty of blokes lose their guns because their ex Mrs wants to be vindictive and make false, malicious and frivolous DV claims.

It's an epidemic actually. Claiming DV always helps if you want the kids, house etc and make your ex lose their job. (Some occupations will cancel your practice registration in the case of DV) and nobody is allowed to question it.

I very narrowly avoided this exact scenario.
The ex threatened to make a false accusation just to have my firearms seized, but she thankfully never went through with it.

glad it didn't happen m8. You won in the end.

[Wm.Traynor]

Plenty of blokes lose their guns because their ex Mrs wants to be vindictive and make false, malicious and frivolous DV claims.

It's an epidemic actually. Claiming DV always helps if you want the kids, house etc and make your ex lose their job. (Some occupations will cancel your practice registration in the case of DV) and nobody is allowed to question it.

My SIL had this done to him. The cops take the wife's word for it that she feels threatened. No proof of violence, no nothing. Those laws need to change. He can't go shooting for years.

[mickb]

There's a lot of people with firearms licences who shouldn't have them too I reckon...

yes, fortunately their a small minority . but their stupidity tars us all with the same brush with authorities and the general public thanks to the media

true and sadly you can never eliminate the small minority in any hobby and its playing a losing game to care what others do that you have no control of.

I look at all the thousands of idiots killing themselves drink driving and dont feel a single bit of personal tarring or responsibility being a consumer of alcohol and a car driver myself.

Nor do I feel any responsbility policing my own sport if some bloke kills his wife with the same brand of golf clubs I use.

[bigrich]

Plenty of blokes lose their guns because their ex Mrs wants to be vindictive and make false, malicious and frivolous DV claims.

It's an epidemic actually. Claiming DV always helps if you want the kids, house etc and make your ex lose their job. (Some occupations will cancel your practice registration in the case of DV) and nobody is allowed to question it.

My SIL had this done to him. The cops take the wife's word for it that she feels threatened. No proof of violence, no nothing. Those laws need to change. He can't go shooting for years.

i've heard these stories numerous times in recent years . no proof at all , a woman can make serious allegations and a guy is screwed . as a 55 year old bachelor who hasn't dated in a long time , i think i dodged a bullet (pardon the pun) compared to what i've seen some fellas go through .

[MtnMan]

My SIL had this done to him. The cops take the wife's word for it that she feels threatened. No proof of violence, no nothing. Those laws need to change. He can't go shooting for years.

So your daughter???

[Wm.Traynor]

My SIL had this done to him. The cops take the wife's word for it that she feels threatened. No proof of violence, no nothing. Those laws need to change. He can't go shooting for years.

So your daughter???

Perhaps I was not clear. I was having a rant to be honest.
It was my son in law (SIL) being accused by his wife, she being the daughter of another family altogether.

[Oldbloke]

I'm very confused too.

[alexjones]

A son in law is the husband of one's daughter. Maybe it is a step child, adopted or family friend etc but I think son in law is not the right term.

[bigrich]

There's a lot of people with firearms licences who shouldn't have them too I reckon...

yes, fortunately their a small minority . but their stupidity tars us all with the same brush with authorities and the general public thanks to the media

true and sadly you can never eliminate the small minority in any hobby and its playing a losing game to care what others do that you have no control of.

I look at all the thousands of idiots killing themselves drink driving and dont feel a single bit of personal tarring or responsibility being a consumer of alcohol and a car driver myself.

Nor do I feel any responsbility policing my own sport if some bloke kills his wife with the same brand of golf clubs I use.

unfortunately common sense goes out the window with the general public when it comes to a minority of gun owners misbehaving . they understand cars , alcohol and individual decisions regarding their use/misuse . thanks to the mainstream media and hollywood , some in our society think all gun owners are dangerous, sadistic, right wing crazies who wear camo and hang nazi flags in their Livingroom, or have klan membership . i've encountered people who believe this sort of cr@p , and when you start throwing real world facts at them they double down on their belief's cause conceding their wrong and ignorant is too shameful for them

[Oldbloke]

There's a lot of people with firearms licences who shouldn't have them too I reckon...

yes, fortunately their a small minority . but their stupidity tars us all with the same brush with authorities and the general public thanks to the media

true and sadly you can never eliminate the small minority in any hobby and its playing a losing game to care what others do that you have no control of.

I look at all the thousands of idiots killing themselves drink driving and dont feel a single bit of personal tarring or responsibility being a consumer of alcohol and a car driver myself.

Nor do I feel any responsbility policing my own sport if some bloke kills his wife with the same brand of golf clubs I use.

unfortunately common sense goes out the window with the general public when it comes to a minority of gun owners misbehaving . they understand cars , alcohol and individual decisions regarding their use/misuse . thanks to the mainstream media and hollywood , some in our society think all gun owners are dangerous, sadistic, right wing crazies who wear camo and hang nazi flags in their Livingroom, or have klan membership . i've encountered people who believe this sort of cr@p , and when you start throwing real world facts at them they double down on their belief's cause conceding their wrong and ignorant is too shameful for them

Spot on BR

[Ballistix]

I notice coming back to mining as an industry how many of these fellas must play up as a lot wished they could own guns but cant. I dont delve into the exact nature of their infractions but in a few cases I was dissappointed to hear it was due to punchups years ago. Im assuming there are a range of other offences which preclude people from owning guns . Where else do you lose the rights to do something or maintain a hobby so easily.

If a fella maliciously chops down the neihgbours tree with a chainsaw he doesnt lose the right to enter hardware stores or own tools for 10 years.

If a bloke committs any crime whilst drunk he isnt banned from consuming for ten years.

If a bloke doesnt fence a pool or get council permission for a shed he doesnt lose the ability to ever build one again.

I also reject the idea a bloke who gets charged for a punch up is always too dangerous to own a gun for 5 or 10 years. If he wanted to use a gun to hurt someone, he would have done so.

Also what other sport gets you banned for leaving something like a loose 22LR cartridge rolling around when you take the car to a mechanic. There is a 1000% more chance of someone getting hurt from people leaving car keys out at night where teenagers can flog them for joyrides...

They seem to have taken a mechanism to prevent hardened pyschos from owning guns and mis using it as a tool to reduce ownership

There is significant truth to this, but at least some of these guys have actually been through a legitimate legal process and been convicted after having their day in court. Far more insidious is the Police's use of 'criminal intelligence' (which may be not only malicious complaints from ex partners, but even unfounded assumption or speculation on the part of the Police) to deny a firearms related application with literally zero evidence and no right to respond...

The Police and the Tribunals that review their decisions have become far too risk adverse and apply the wrong test to the assessment of risk to deny whole sections of the community licences. The pendulum has clearly swung too far and at some point reality will re-assert itself. Almost every other part of government has to make decisions, believe it or not, on actual, rational, probative evidence. But where it involves firearms, let's just arbitrarily speculate about the existence of a secret risk, that we won't tell you about, and you can't respond to - so that we can deny you a licence...

[Wm.Traynor]

A son in law is the husband of one's daughter. Maybe it is a step child, adopted or family friend etc but I think son in law is not the right term.

Now that alexjones has commented, it looks like I have been using the wrong expression.
Apologies to everyone
The tormented husband is my wife's son who I kind of "inherited", when she and I became a couple. So, he is my Adoptive Son by marriage.
Anyway, the Bitch (my wife's name for her) is still giving him a hard time, although he is fighting back as best he can.

And now that I am getting warmed up, is it any wonder that some blokes commit murder?

[deye243]

Plenty of blokes lose their guns because their ex Mrs wants to be vindictive and make false, malicious and frivolous DV claims.

It's an epidemic actually. Claiming DV always helps if you want the kids, house etc and make your ex lose their job. (Some occupations will cancel your practice registration in the case of DV) and nobody is allowed to question it.

I very narrowly avoided this exact scenario.
The ex threatened to make a false accusation just to have my firearms seized, but she thankfully never went through with it.

Hmmm I had this s**t sorted way before my split my ex had balls bigger that a ram but when it came to this she knew better .

[mickb]

There's a lot of people with firearms licences who shouldn't have them too I reckon...

yes, fortunately their a small minority . but their stupidity tars us all with the same brush with authorities and the general public thanks to the media

true and sadly you can never eliminate the small minority in any hobby and its playing a losing game to care what others do that you have no control of.

I look at all the thousands of idiots killing themselves drink driving and dont feel a single bit of personal tarring or responsibility being a consumer of alcohol and a car driver myself.

Nor do I feel any responsbility policing my own sport if some bloke kills his wife with the same brand of golf clubs I use.

unfortunately common sense goes out the window with the general public when it comes to a minority of gun owners misbehaving . they understand cars , alcohol and individual decisions regarding their use/misuse . thanks to the mainstream media and hollywood , some in our society think all gun owners are dangerous, sadistic, right wing crazies who wear camo and hang nazi flags in their Livingroom, or have klan membership . i've encountered people who believe this sort of cr@p , and when you start throwing real world facts at them they double down on their belief's cause conceding their wrong and ignorant is too shameful for them

I agree mate, the big difference is not just the public having a more critical view of guns...its gun owners themselves.Look at any time there is a shooting or poaching incident hits the news. Gun forums including real ones as in industry discussion groups/think tanks fill up with new legislation/safety/screening ideas. let me say appeasement works zero % because they just take what you offer and change the goalposts again.

[mickb]

Good point though, out here, the biggest crimes with guns, shooting people's animals, drunken lawlessness on the remote roads, poaching and just simply disrespecting landowners out here, is most definitely dominated by mine and gas workers on R&R. And it's all fueled by alcohol.

Where about is that mate. Oil and gas and mining combined are less than 1% of the working population so I am assuming you are near one of the coal or mineral basins etc. Where I am in the wet tropics the actual poaching is more tradies and local labourers looking for free meat , basically blokes with a 4x4 setup doing the deed. Middle ages blokes as well.

[Wapiti]

Good point though, out here, the biggest crimes with guns, shooting people's animals, drunken lawlessness on the remote roads, poaching and just simply disrespecting landowners out here, is most definitely dominated by mine and gas workers on R&R. And it's all fueled by alcohol.

Where about is that mate. Oil and gas and mining combined are less than 1% of the working population so I am assuming you are near one of the coal or mineral basins etc. Where I am in the wet tropics the actual poaching is more tradies and local labourers looking for free meat , basically blokes with a 4x4 setup doing the deed. Middle ages blokes as well.

Southern central Qld.
But the main reason is that the bloke that bought the joint next to me is off the oil/gas, and all his mates are invited to come along when they have R&R.
No problem with that at all, that's how most people get a chance to get out, that's someone else's generosity for whatever reason they like to share.

It's when they are inconsiderate, disrespectful and downright criminal dogs, that it becomes a problem.
And to deny that it goes on, because this owner is too weak to do anything about it, or too proud, or both, is the issue.
If you were in those shoes for years, and had stock and property shot by these lowlifes, you would begin to completely wish they were not in a position to have guns. My wife and I found a fallow buck last week, 100m off the fenceline inside our place with a hole in it's shoulder, a hole through it's shoulder blade and busted up ribs. It had been shot.
It's not just them of course, it's the knuckledragger "Pros" on their way between properties they are permitted on, shooting along roads and over fences. They only shoot things they can drag back to the ute though. It's the mentally retarded poacher hunters that just shoot at something because it breathes, over a high fence they have no intention or fitness of going through or over to get what they killed for fun.
It is this that has made a huge area out this way now not allow outside hunters anymore, and distrust anyone from outside. Because that's becoming the experience, that our only exposure to them is disrespectful and criminal?

It makes me doubly annoyed, because I know that to back shooting and hunting politically, I can't separate us all. But it is making it increasingly hard to convince anyone around here that lives on the land, affected by outsiders, that city people should have guns. And to see people who just don't get it is disheartening when you are trying to support everybody.

[mickb]

Good point though, out here, the biggest crimes with guns, shooting people's animals, drunken lawlessness on the remote roads, poaching and just simply disrespecting landowners out here, is most definitely dominated by mine and gas workers on R&R. And it's all fueled by alcohol.

Where about is that mate. Oil and gas and mining combined are less than 1% of the working population so I am assuming you are near one of the coal or mineral basins etc. Where I am in the wet tropics the actual poaching is more tradies and local labourers looking for free meat , basically blokes with a 4x4 setup doing the deed. Middle ages blokes as well.

Southern central Qld.
But the main reason is that the bloke that bought the joint next to me is off the oil/gas, and all his mates are invited to come along when they have R&R.
No problem with that at all, that's how most people get a chance to get out, that's someone else's generosity for whatever reason they like to share.

It's when they are inconsiderate, disrespectful and downright criminal dogs, that it becomes a problem.
And to deny that it goes on, because this owner is too weak to do anything about it, or too proud, or both, is the issue.
If you were in those shoes for years, and had stock and property shot by these lowlifes, you would begin to completely wish they were not in a position to have guns. My wife and I found a fallow buck last week, 100m off the fenceline inside our place with a hole in it's shoulder, a hole through it's shoulder blade and busted up ribs. It had been shot.
It's not just them of course, it's the knuckledragger "Pros" on their way between properties they are permitted on, shooting along roads and over fences. They only shoot things they can drag back to the ute though. It's the mentally retarded poacher hunters that just shoot at something because it breathes, over a high fence they have no intention or fitness of going through or over to get what they killed for fun.
It is this that has made a huge area out this way now not allow outside hunters anymore, and distrust anyone from outside. Because that's becoming the experience, that our only exposure to them is disrespectful and criminal?

It makes me doubly annoyed, because I know that to back shooting and hunting politically, I can't separate us all. But it is making it increasingly hard to convince anyone around here that lives on the land, affected by outsiders, that city people should have guns. And to see people who just don't get it is disheartening when you are trying to support everybody.

I hear you mate but I think we have to take the good with the bad mate or we end up dismantling our sport for the anti's. I know plenty of responsible blokes with guns in the city as Im sure you do. As you say the blokes doing most of the damage arent some pistol owner, target shooter, respectable bloke, mil collector or big game rifle guy attending club shoots in Melbourne and Brisbane each week and booking safaris to the top end.