Garmin Xero.

[Wyliecoyote]

Just wanted to pass on my personal view of the Garmin Xero having owned one since December 2023.

Firstly, anyone who has owned anything Garmin knows they don't put anything out there that is rubbish and this chronograph is no exception.
Like a lot of you i saw it reviewed on youtube long before it was here for sale and i was surprised by how every reviewer claimed how easy it was to use. When i got mine i was struck by how small the unit is, weighs nothing, that there is nothing but a screen, four buttons and a charging port in a package the size of a pack of cigarettes. The tripod at first looks sort of like an afterthought but having used it a lot i see no need to use any other stand or platform.

Before i go any further it should be noted that Garmin claim an accuracy of 0.1% of real world velocity. Why i say this is that i have had little use for a chronograph in years past where with all my competition rifles i used the paper to tell me what worked and what didn't. More recently i have set up long range hunting rifles for both day and thermal night shooting. There you need to know velocity and previous chronograph testing has had me ask more questions than answer them. What the Xero has shown me is how far out and how inconsistent old screen type chronographs are. I mean day to day lot testing of rimfire ammo for my IRB and Hunter rimfires showed different results everytime and sometimes within hours of each other. Obviously sunlight and screens and time of day gave different results. This is where the Garmin is so good where even during night matches you can shoot a 30 or 40 round match and see the data on your phone or Garmin.
Going on ten months now the Zero has never missed reading a single shot from the 900 fps PCP through to the 4000fps 204 and a heap of cartridges in-between. Muzzle blast from you or someone on the bench next to you does not affect the read out unlike the Labradar. There are no batteries to fiddle with as it has an internal battery. Just turn it on, put it beside your rifle within the specified distance and shoot.

The final thing i have to say is if you think you know your muzzle velocity and it wasn't gotten with a Labradar a FX or Xero, you most likely don't have a true muzzle velocity.

PS The pic below shows the unit in a protective box 3D printed by Tim Lane and retails for $30 plus postage. He can be found on ozfclass.

[deye243]

Can you change the battery or it it built in like the little cylinder type chronographs.
There is one thing I would like to see is it tested with a magspeed .

[Jorlcrin]

I've been eyeing one of these Garmin Xero's off for a while; Woefully uninspired with my LabRadar's emotional behaviour, and little incentive to burn serious money to resolve it.
[And still have a cumbersome, clunky unit at the end of it]]..

So, nearly at the point of biting the bullet and buying one of the Garmin Xero units.
Many thanks for the review; helped me firm up my plans.

But I do take exception at the statement "Firstly, anyone who has owned anything Garmin knows they don't put anything out there that is rubbish and this chronograph is no exception."
I take it you've not owned a Garmin Rino 650 combo UHF/GPS?
Yeah...We bought 4 of these units about 10 years ago, and I wouldnt buy them again.
The Speaker/Mic port is crap in comparison to either Electraphone or Icom, and all 4 units have problems as a result when using Speaker/Mic.
The Charge port could be a much better design for using the unit in a cradle, as does the Icom and Electraphone designs[on their UHF radios].
Some of the issues were resolved in the later 750, but the stupidity of some of the unit's programming defies belief.
For instance, they have disabled the tracking mode on all channels that potentially can have a repeater operating on them.
Tracking is where each Rino unit send a silent data 'Chirp' via the UHF radio, and displays on the other Rino Map screens.
Idea seems ideal for mustering and attending bushfires, as well as general working in the paddock on your own.
But Garmin royally screwed it up.
Doesnt matter if you dont live in range of a repeater, Garmin disabled tracking on channels 1-8, 31-38, 41-48, and 81-88.
[Note that 5/35 and possibly 45/75 are reserved for Emergency use only]
When I got the supplier to contact Garmin Australia as to the stupidity of this programming, they refused to change it, despite it being a software alteration that they were easily able to do.
[They fixed a couple of other similar features that didnt work properly, so demonstrated they were capable of doing so].
Garmins attitude was that their programming was the 'Best-Fit' to meet Australian ACMA law, despite the law actually stating that the restrictions only apply when a repeater is operating on that channel.

Anyway; after that little rant about Garmin not hitting a home-run every time, I'll likely be owning a Xero before years end.
At least this Garmin has people saying positive things about it..

[Jorlcrin]

Took the plunge and bought one of these units last week; Garmin C1 Xero Chronograph.

It is TINY!
Unit itself would barely be larger than a cigarette pack; the tripod probably takes up as much volume as the chrono itself.
Total of 4 buttons on it; doesnt take long to work your way through the menus, even if you dont bother to read the book in detail.

Flashed it up for the first time yesterday arvo, while running the waters.
Put a set of 10 rounds through the .22 handgun, and then another session where I put 5 rounds from the .223 rifle through it.

Firstly, the unit was simple to operate, and read EVERY shot from each session.
The [POXED!!] LabRadar I had previously, was much more Hit & Miss as to whether it would record a complete session without errors.
The small size of the Garmin meant it was simple to prep and use.
[I just keep mine in a spare handgun soft-case, which is about 2 times too large for it, but protects it fine.]

Secondly, in comparison to LabRadar, the Garmin only records the MV, and if you have dialed in the bullet weight, will also give you KE and Power factor readings.
LabRadar used to record up to 5 readings(Think it was out to 100 metres?), so a bit more info recorded there.
But to be honest, I'm only really looking for the MV, and none of my previous chronos ever recorded anything more than the MV, so no real loss(to me at least).

Thirdly, the extracting of the data from the Garmin, is more fiddly than what the LabRadar offered.
If you dont want to pair it with a phone, you need a conversion program to convert .FIT files to .CSV files, which can then be imported into a spreadsheet.
Garmin make a conversion tool, but have made it in Java, which has been losing support for some years, for a range of reasons(security being one?).

Also, Garmin have made the pairing of the phone to be way too fiddly for what should be much more simple and streamlined.
It uses Bluetooth, but it's not a standard Bluetooth protocol, and so MUST have the 'ShotView' app to act as the interface.
And there is a defined sequence as to how you pair them up, and it will sit there pairing forever, if you havent confirmed the 'Create Account' email.
[Learned this last one the hard way last night...Sigh]
Thats a rather clunky solution.
And now, I find that it seems any sessions that were conducted without having the phone paired beforehand, arent visible by the app(suggests it needs to sync them real-time), and so cant be downloaded via the app.
I'm yet to try out the Garmin since I figured out the pairing setup, but I'll be surprised if it doesnt work, and save copies of sessions onto my phone.

I cannot see why the downloading of sessions cannot be something I can simply drag & drop when I connect the USB cable to my laptop, OR by a Bluetooth file-transfer app.
Now, I havent installed the Java app, but it looks like it might allow for files to be converted to .CSV format, which can then be imported into a spreadsheet.

But why this clunky data transfer??
For all it's faults(and there are MANY), the LabRadar data is stored on a removable SD card, and it easily imported into any spreadsheet.
NO idea why Garmin couldnt do similar.

So, I see a number of people have developed conversion apps, but I see they are all running Java, so effectively a variant of what the Garmin SDK offered.
There should be a lot more user-friendly option than this.

I like this chrono, and if I can streamline the process of extracting data from it, I'll be using it a lot over the next few months.
And the size and simplicity of using it, is great.
But Garmin could have done a LOT better, for not a lot of effort on their behalf.

My 2 cents.

Xero beside LabRadar

20241103_103523 (2)_Downsized.jpg (637.18 KiB) Viewed 6007 times

[bladeracer]

All I do with the ProChrono is video on my phone as I click through the readings, then play the video on the computer while I type them into the spreadsheet. But the number of times I've done this I could probably count on two hands, and I have looked back at those data even less times than that. I consider the velocity data to be useful on the day when I'm testing the ammo, I don't see any use for it at later times, except to refer back to what the mean velocity was last time I tested it. I record the mean, SD, and ES in the logbook, and if I've only measured ten or less shots I'll sometimes list those in the notes of the log as well. I paid extra for the add-on to the ProChrono Digital and have never felt any need to bother with it.

Why do you need to download data from it? Is there some advantage to having these data on the computer or phone a year after the test?

Took the plunge and bought one of these units last week; Garmin C1 Xero Chronograph.

It is TINY!
Unit itself would barely be larger than a cigarette pack; the tripod probably takes up as much volume as the chrono itself.
Total of 4 buttons on it; doesnt take long to work your way through the menus, even if you dont bother to read the book in detail.

Flashed it up for the first time yesterday arvo, while running the waters.
Put a set of 10 rounds through the .22 handgun, and then another session where I put 5 rounds from the .223 rifle through it.

Firstly, the unit was simple to operate, and read EVERY shot from each session.
The [POXED!!] LabRadar I had previously, was much more Hit & Miss as to whether it would record a complete session without errors.
The small size of the Garmin meant it was simple to prep and use.
[I just keep mine in a spare handgun soft-case, which is about 2 times too large for it, but protects it fine.]

Secondly, in comparison to LabRadar, the Garmin only records the MV, and if you have dialed in the bullet weight, will also give you KE and Power factor readings.
LabRadar used to record up to 5 readings(Think it was out to 100 metres?), so a bit more info recorded there.
But to be honest, I'm only really looking for the MV, and none of my previous chronos ever recorded anything more than the MV, so no real loss(to me at least).

Thirdly, the extracting of the data from the Garmin, is more fiddly than what the LabRadar offered.
If you dont want to pair it with a phone, you need a conversion program to convert .FIT files to .CSV files, which can then be imported into a spreadsheet.
Garmin make a conversion tool, but have made it in Java, which has been losing support for some years, for a range of reasons(security being one?).

Also, Garmin have made the pairing of the phone to be way too fiddly for what should be much more simple and streamlined.
It uses Bluetooth, but it's not a standard Bluetooth protocol, and so MUST have the 'ShotView' app to act as the interface.
And there is a defined sequence as to how you pair them up, and it will sit there pairing forever, if you havent confirmed the 'Create Account' email.
[Learned this last one the hard way last night...Sigh]
Thats a rather clunky solution.
And now, I find that it seems any sessions that were conducted without having the phone paired beforehand, arent visible by the app(suggests it needs to sync them real-time), and so cant be downloaded via the app.
I'm yet to try out the Garmin since I figured out the pairing setup, but I'll be surprised if it doesnt work, and save copies of sessions onto my phone.

I cannot see why the downloading of sessions cannot be something I can simply drag & drop when I connect the USB cable to my laptop, OR by a Bluetooth file-transfer app.
Now, I havent installed the Java app, but it looks like it might allow for files to be converted to .CSV format, which can then be imported into a spreadsheet.

But why this clunky data transfer??
For all it's faults(and there are MANY), the LabRadar data is stored on a removable SD card, and it easily imported into any spreadsheet.
NO idea why Garmin couldnt do similar.

So, I see a number of people have developed conversion apps, but I see they are all running Java, so effectively a variant of what the Garmin SDK offered.
There should be a lot more user-friendly option than this.

I like this chrono, and if I can streamline the process of extracting data from it, I'll be using it a lot over the next few months.
And the size and simplicity of using it, is great.
But Garmin could have done a LOT better, for not a lot of effort on their behalf.

My 2 cents.

20241103_103523 (2)_Downsized.jpg

[Jorlcrin]

Bladeracer,

I do refer to the data from my Chrono sessions fairly regularly, and I'd like to be able to download the data from the unit.
The LabRadar chrono was my first that made downloading the shot-session data relatively simple, and I've found I do refer to it a bit.

Not expecting everyone else to follow suit, but Garmin do spruik this data transfer being a feature, so not sure why they made it so convoluted.

Anyway; my frustrations have become somewhat irrelevant; found an online tool that does the conversion, and spits it back in a similar format to my LabRadar files, so all good.

[Wyliecoyote]

If you pair the Xero with your phone the data is there to bring up any time you wish. I mark each group on the target sheet with the main data of average velocity and es. That way i can refer directly to the target for sine location and what velocity i have to get to to achieve the same group with differing batch lots of powder. Velocity data without the group pattern is pretty useless in my view so for me it makes sense to keep the two together. My Xero is cleared of all data once the session is finished. The phone data is cleared whenever where these days i don't bother turning the phone pairing on. Not really that essential to my needs.

The biggest issue i have is setting the ballistic app in my Infiray to the claimed BC. Nosler flat out lies especially with their RDF line, Speer is better and Sierra is close. Berger and Hornady can be low or high depending on projectile or batch lots. For example, the Nosler 120 7mm BT says it has a BC of just over 0.410. Real world is closer to 0.380. Speer 6mm 100 grain SPBT says 0.44, real world is 0.43. Hornady 7mm 180 ELDM say around 0.79, real world with current batch is around 0.81. So the Xero is invaluable for getting the speed but to get the exact ballistic solution a fair bit of data gathering at known ranges is required in conjunction with the Xero readings on the day. It is just guess work getting the Xero to give you a speed then plugging that in with a bullet BC into an app. At a 1000 yards you could be out by multiple MOA or Mil.

[No1_49er]

Couple of things to comment on now.
Anybody who thinks there is a need to have ready access to the battery (for replacement ?) should maybe think of the parallel with your "smart-phone". Can you replace the battery in that?
If the Garmin doesn't spin your wheels, consider the new Labradar ( https://mylabradar.com/product/labradar-lx/ ). Yes, they make one that looks damned close in physical format to the Garmin. Oh, it too has an internal battery. No reviews of the device suggest that it is a replaceable battery. Just like your phone. In the US it's exactly the same price as the Garmin.
Use whatever search engine you like and you'll find on-line reviews of both.

[Larry]

I have put the garmin next to my rifle with a magneto speed on it and it was consistently either spot on or within a few fps it was great confirmation of both. I had put my magneto speed up against the industry standard Oehler Personally I think the magneto perfomed better the the Oehler which is a bit fussy about the lighting.

[Wyliecoyote]

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/th ... l.7205771/

[deye243]

Couple of things to comment on now.
Anybody who thinks there is a need to have ready access to the battery (for replacement ?) should maybe think of the parallel with your "smart-phone". Can you replace the battery in that?
If the Garmin doesn't spin your wheels, consider the new Labradar ( https://mylabradar.com/product/labradar-lx/ ). Yes, they make one that looks damned close in physical format to the Garmin. Oh, it too has an internal battery. No reviews of the device suggest that it is a replaceable battery. Just like your phone. In the US it's exactly the same price as the Garmin.
Use whatever search engine you like and you'll find on-line reviews of both.

Exactly my point and why I would never buy one these it's the biggest thing I hate about so-called smartphones once the battery's buggered you've done your close to 2,000 bucks for a phone ...... crazy

[Jorlcrin]

Couple of things to comment on now.
Anybody who thinks there is a need to have ready access to the battery (for replacement ?) should maybe think of the parallel with your "smart-phone". Can you replace the battery in that?
If the Garmin doesn't spin your wheels, consider the new Labradar ( https://mylabradar.com/product/labradar-lx/ ). Yes, they make one that looks damned close in physical format to the Garmin. Oh, it too has an internal battery. No reviews of the device suggest that it is a replaceable battery. Just like your phone. In the US it's exactly the same price as the Garmin.
Use whatever search engine you like and you'll find on-line reviews of both.

Exactly my point and why I would never buy one these it's the biggest thing I hate about so-called smartphones once the battery's buggered you've done your close to 2,000 bucks for a phone ...... crazy

Plenty of forums that show how simple it is to replace the battery in the Garmin Xero.
Heck of a lot easier to replace than a phone battery from the ones I saw.
They've used a bog-standard battery used in a number of other Garmin devices, so not hard to source.

It's just not using AA batteries like the big LabRadar.

[Wapiti]

These Garmins are awesome, so much easier than my old "Shootin' Chrony".
It was the kind with the opaque screens to shade the sky from the bullet passing below. The chinesium plastic crumbled to dust, as fake Chinese plastic does, and I was sick of trying not to shoot the damn thing.

I don't go nuts over BC's and all the app stuff, I found what I normally do works great which is, find the true MV of the projectile/cartridge, refer to two trusted ballistic calculators we use, put up the targets at the ranges we want to check and shoot. To be spot on, you have to shoot ammo at the ranges anyway to confirm your dope, no matter what complexity people think they must use.
Anyway, these things are the ducks guts.

[deye243]

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/possible-garmin-xero-c1-chrono-achilles-heel.7205771/

Thanks for that

[OyKurwa]

I've been eyeing one of these off for a while. The 20% discount emergency services get from Garmin makes it even more enticing.

Thanks for the practical review. I think I'm all but sold.

[Billo]

I've been eyeing one of these off for a while. The 20% discount emergency services get from Garmin makes it even more enticing.

Thanks for the practical review. I think I'm all but sold.

I bought a Garmin off Amazon for $679 delivered and its so easy to use, I've taken to the range twice in the last 2 week and it beats strapping the old Magneto speed to the barrel.

[deye243]

I've been eyeing one of these off for a while. The 20% discount emergency services get from Garmin makes it even more enticing.

Thanks for the practical review. I think I'm all but sold.

I bought a Garmin off Amazon for $679 delivered and its so easy to use, I've taken to the range twice in the last 2 week and it beats strapping the old Magneto speed to the barrel.

Is it any more accurate? ...... for you .
I ran one of these with a labradar and a magneto at a mates farm and all were within 17fps so I'm not in a hurry to spend a heap of cash that is better spent on powder and primers .
I don't think trump getting in is gunna make things cheaper or easier to get .

[Larry]

The magneto does change POI while it does its job great it affects the system. The garmin which is about the same price as the magneto top model is a no brianer if you are buying new. being able to put it next to you during a practice shoot at a target it can help explain any outliers or not. No more blaming Oh i must have loaded that one badly when things go astray.

[Harrisor44]

Currently a black Friday special on Amazon for $755

[wanneroo]

That Garmin sure seemed to make everything obsolete very quickly. Certainly I will have to consider getting one down the road.

[Wyliecoyote]

I have found one issue with the Xero. It is too light. A mate with a 375 Ruger was doing some load testing on the weekend. No matter where we placed the Xero the blast would blow it off the bench. No damage done as it fell on grass but most ranges are concrete floors.