2024 Whats your Favourite Centrefire Rifle

[bladeracer]

What twist are you shooting 85gnbt out of in a .22-250. ??

the 22-250 brass has been resized for the parent case , 250 savage, which is what i'm shooting the 85's out of . just as well i didn't post about my 100gn loads

I loaded four bullets for testing in the .303-25 yesterday, Bertram's 87gn SP, Speer Hotcore 87gn SP, Hornady Interlock 117gn RN and the 110gn FTX. The FTX is 1.110" though and I'm sure will be too long to stabilise. I'll fire one and if it hits sideways I'll pull the tips making them 1.000" and see if they work then as HP's. I hope the 110gn RN shoots well as it looks like it would hit hard.

[Wyliecoyote]

Maybe not exacly about favourite rifle but my favourite cartridge for 2024, and i have many, is the 375 Raptor. Originally looked at the 8.6 Blackout but the Raptor has the abilty to do impressive supersonic speeds and run subsonic without the need for powders we currently aren't able to get. The 270 grain Speer at 2200 fps out of a 14 inch barrel or 350 Woodleigh's subsonic using the same powder like 2219, 2207 and 2206H. Cases are 308 parent one pass in the dies then shortened slightly then are ready to use with no fireforming requirement which is a bonus for those looking for a cost effective option. Surprisingly popular in the US in AR platform and gaining traction with bolt guns here. Overall length with even 350 Woodleigh's is under 2.800". The surprise for me is the recoil. You would expect more but is very soft and more of a push than a punch. Not sure why this is but everyone who has shot it is surprised. The primary use so far has been larger pigs in thicker scrub using thermal at night but will be buff and scrub cattle in the new year. Looking at US user data 22 inch barrels and 270 Speers get over 2600 fps which is extraordinary for such a small cartridge.

Below is a pic of a stock 308, then 270 Speer and 350 Woodleigh loaded in Raptor cases.

[bigrich]

What twist are you shooting 85gnbt out of in a .22-250. ??

the 22-250 brass has been resized for the parent case , 250 savage, which is what i'm shooting the 85's out of . just as well i didn't post about my 100gn loads

I loaded four bullets for testing in the .303-25 yesterday, Bertram's 87gn SP, Speer Hotcore 87gn SP, Hornady Interlock 110gn RN and the 117gn FTX. The FTX is 1.110" though and I'm sure will be too long to stabilise. I'll fire one and if it hits sideways I'll pull the tips making them 1.000" and see if they work then as HP's. I hope the 110gn RN shoots well as it looks like it would hit hard.

the 25 cal ftx i have are 110gn . used in a fireforming load with 31gn of 2206h they shot 1/2 ' straight up . not a lot of speed out of a 250 savage case , you'd probably do better out of a 303-25 case . i'm running 1-10 twist , probably why it doesn't like speer projectiles that would've been designed for the original 1-14 twist . most 303-25's i've heard of are 1-12 . it's like my 1-12 twist 308 doesn't like newer designed ballistic tips ,nosler bt's, sst's, but will shoot older projectile designs very accurately for the original 1-12 twist of the 308

[bigrich]

Maybe not exacly about favourite rifle but my favourite cartridge for 2024, and i have many, is the 375 Raptor. Originally looked at the 8.6 Blackout but the Raptor has the abilty to do impressive supersonic speeds and run subsonic without the need for powders we currently aren't able to get. The 270 grain Speer at 2200 fps out of a 14 inch barrel or 350 Woodleigh's subsonic using the same powder like 2219, 2207 and 2206H. Cases are 308 parent one pass in the dies then shortened slightly then are ready to use with no fireforming requirement which is a bonus for those looking for a cost effective option. Surprisingly popular in the US in AR platform and gaining traction with bolt guns here. Overall length with even 350 Woodleigh's is under 2.800". The surprise for me is the recoil. You would expect more but is very soft and more of a push than a punch. Not sure why this is but everyone who has shot it is surprised. The primary use so far has been larger pigs in thicker scrub using thermal at night but will be buff and scrub cattle in the new year. Looking at US user data 22 inch barrels and 270 Speers get over 2600 fps which is extraordinary for such a small cartridge.

Below is a pic of a stock 308, then 270 Speer and 350 Woodleigh loaded in Raptor cases.

2600fps with 270gn ? yeah wow , if that's correct that's impressive . yanks have a very large variety of powder to choose from, which would make it easier to obtain great results . i ran 225 sierra GK in a 358 win years ago . dynamite on pigs and scary accurate with 2208

[Oldrooshooter]

Haha na you should share your experience that’s what this is all about!
So your shooting the .22-250 shells out of same gun just formed them to .250 specs ???

[bigrich]

Haha na you should share your experience that’s what this is all about!
So your shooting the .22-250 shells out of same gun just formed them to .250 specs ???

yeah. the 22-250 was a wildcat varmit cartridge developed from the original 250 savage . brass for the savage is hard to come by so i'm reverse engineering by FLS 22-250 brass to 250 savage and fireforming with mild loads to make sure headspace is correct before loading full power loads. however i'm getting flyers with flat primers with 100gn projectiles, so i think i'm getting pressure spikes from donuts . not with 85's though , 85's are silly accurate

[bladeracer]

the 25 cal ftx i have are 110gn . used in a fireforming load with 31gn of 2206h they shot 1/2 ' straight up . not a lot of speed out of a 250 savage case , you'd probably do better out of a 303-25 case . i'm running 1-10 twist , probably why it doesn't like speer projectiles that would've been designed for the original 1-14 twist . most 303-25's i've heard of are 1-12 . it's like my 1-12 twist 308 doesn't like newer designed ballistic tips ,nosler bt's, sst's, but will shoot older projectile designs very accurately for the original 1-12 twist of the 308

Quite right, Rich, I had the weights arse about
I haven't measured the twist rate but I'm assuming it's 12", which I think should stabilise bullets up to a little over one-inch.
I've loaded all of them on 30gn of AR2206H.

[bigrich]

the 25 cal ftx i have are 110gn . used in a fireforming load with 31gn of 2206h they shot 1/2 ' straight up . not a lot of speed out of a 250 savage case , you'd probably do better out of a 303-25 case . i'm running 1-10 twist , probably why it doesn't like speer projectiles that would've been designed for the original 1-14 twist . most 303-25's i've heard of are 1-12 . it's like my 1-12 twist 308 doesn't like newer designed ballistic tips ,nosler bt's, sst's, but will shoot older projectile designs very accurately for the original 1-12 twist of the 308

Quite right, Rich, I had the weights arse about
I haven't measured the twist rate but I'm assuming it's 12", which I think should stabilise bullets up to a little over one-inch.
I've loaded all of them on 30gn of AR2206H.

it seems to me from talking to people about numerous 25 cal cartridges, the 25 cal can be fussy with loads in some rifles . BM2 shows a lot of promise with great accuracy in my 250, but i haven't got back to exploring this powder yet . my 250 gives excellent accuracy with 2206h for 85's and also 2208 with 85's and 100's near max loading . i'm assuming the 110gn ftx is designed for the 25-35 win . probably don't need a lot of speed for splat factor i don't think i'd use it on big pigs , but as a mild general purpose projectile on goats and similar body weights it's got a lot of merit . your 303-25 was very popular for a reason for a reason back in the day , it just works on average sized game at a pleasant recoil level , muzzle blast and cost . i've even seen old custom mauser 98's converted to it , so that says something . i reckon you could ramp up hotter with the ftx in your 303-25 . i'm running 31gn in the smaller 250 case for a node that's still under max by a gn or two . i wouldn't be supprised if the ftx works well in 1-12 twist . it's flat based and short for what it is . good luck blade

[bladeracer]

it seems to me from talking to people about numerous 25 cal cartridges, the 25 cal can be fussy with loads in some rifles . BM2 shows a lot of promise with great accuracy in my 250, but i haven't got back to exploring this powder yet . my 250 gives excellent accuracy with 2206h for 85's and also 2208 with 85's and 100's near max loading . i'm assuming the 110gn ftx is designed for the 25-35 win . probably don't need a lot of speed for splat factor i don't think i'd use it on big pigs , but as a mild general purpose projectile on goats and similar body weights it's got a lot of merit . your 303-25 was very popular for a reason for a reason back in the day , it just works on average sized game at a pleasant recoil level , muzzle blast and cost . i've even seen old custom mauser 98's converted to it , so that says something . i reckon you could ramp up hotter with the ftx in your 303-25 . i'm running 31gn in the smaller 250 case for a node that's still under max by a gn or two . i wouldn't be surprised if the ftx works well in 1-12 twist . it's flat based and short for what it is . good luck blade

I am finding it very difficult to seat bullets concentrically in the new brass, though whether it causes problems I don't know. The already fired brass is much better.

The .303-25 doesn't seem to have any modification to the magazine, which is designed to hang onto the full-size cartridge with big 174gn bullets, the little 87's tend to move around a lot in there - give the rifle a good bump while the bolt is open and they'll all pop out. I wanted to try some bullets that might hang onto the feed lips better, the fat 117gn RN looks good for that.

I'm sure you could push the cartridge to good velocities, but the SMLE is rear-locking and will eat brass at higher pressures. I do want to get some velocities this time to see where it's running.

The FTX is a boat-tail and is quite long, the SST and CX are flat-base designs.
https://www.hornady.com/bullets/rifle/25-cal-.257-110-gr-ftx#!/

[bigrich]

whoops , you are right blade , the ftx is indeed a boat tail . my bad has been a little while since i last played with them

[bigpete]

375 raptor sounds like fun

[bigrich]

375 raptor sounds like fun

just had a look at it's ballistics , energy drops quickly . 358win is more useful to my way of thinking . a interesting cartridge i came across between the 358win and the whelen is 358 mitchell express . 8x57 mauser necked up to 358 and the case ackleyed for more shoulder . would be interesting in the field . 358 win was a little range limited for me , and 225gn sierra game kings have been non existent in australia for quite a while . my smith i use built a 375 whelen as 375 projectiles are more common and cheap compared to 358

[straightshooter]

375 raptor sounds like fun

. a interesting cartridge i came across between the 358win and the whelen is 358 mitchell express . 8x57 mauser necked up to 358

Then why not give consideration to a 9.3x57.
It is still a standard European chambering even though it has been overtaken by much hotter cartridges.
It was once very popular in Scandinavia for taking Moose.
9.3 cal projectiles seem to be far more readily available in Australia than 35 cal rifle projectiles.

[bigrich]

375 raptor sounds like fun

. a interesting cartridge i came across between the 358win and the whelen is 358 mitchell express . 8x57 mauser necked up to 358

Then why not give consideration to a 9.3x57.
It is still a standard European chambering even though it has been overtaken by much hotter cartridges.
It was once very popular in Scandinavia for taking Moose.
9.3 cal projectiles seem to be far more readily available in Australia than 35 cal rifle projectiles.

very true . but 358 projectiles are more flexible on lighter game species than the 9.3. i used the 9.3 on all manner of game up north, and except for 270gn speers , the majority of 9.3 projectiles are too stout for deer , pigs and the like . american based 35 cal projectiles are designed to, and have variety of choice, handle everything from white tail deer on up . 225gn game kings out of my 358win had energy transfer and shock like nothing i've seen since on pigs. so while 35 cal is hard to find , IMHO it's much better for hunting up and down the east coast of oz than 9.3 . i reckon 9.3 is about perfect for sambar, but 35 whelen with a premium bullet would do well also . while up north lapua "mega" 285gn projectiles flattened wild horses and donkeys DRT, 250ttsx barnes for penetration on buff worked very well with good shot placement . soft 270 speers worked well on large northern pigs so long as you hit the shoulder . medium bores on medium game are about energy transfer to anchor game right on the spot. 35 cal and it's suitable projectiles ,does this very well .only other thing i've seen as devastating on large pigs is 170gn sst out of a mates 8x57 98 mauser

[Wyliecoyote]

2600fps with 270gn ? yeah wow , if that's correct that's impressive . yanks have a very large variety of powder to choose from, which would make it easier to obtain great results . i ran 225 sierra GK in a 358 win years ago . dynamite on pigs and scary accurate with 2208 [/quote]

That is the claim from some US owners. I'm sceptical of those claims. 2400 fps I reckon so, 2500 maybe in a 24 inch barrel. But 2600? I would like to see it with my Xero. Most definitely possible with the 220 Hornady or 235 Speer. The yanks rave about some powders we will never see for the Raptor. Might be true but I would have to see it.

[bigpete]

Bigrich,I own a 35 whelen. That'll do me.
Another interesting wildcat is the 375/284. More powder capacity,short length,standard bolt face,and will fit into a cz 550 308w magazine...

[bigrich]

Bigrich,I own a 35 whelen. That'll do me.
Another interesting wildcat is the 375/284. More powder capacity,short length,standard bolt face,and will fit into a cz 550 308w magazine...

Hadn’t heard of that on the 284 case Pete. My local toy shop had a howa built into a 35-284 which I found interesting. I find wild cat cartridges very interesting, but time and money wise it’s a bit of a rabbit hole for me these days. Maybe if I win lotto and employ my own personal gun smith….

[bigpete]

Bigrich,I own a 35 whelen. That'll do me.
Another interesting wildcat is the 375/284. More powder capacity,short length,standard bolt face,and will fit into a cz 550 308w magazine...

Hadn’t heard of that on the 284 case Pete. My local toy shop had a howa built into a 35-284 which I found interesting. I find wild cat cartridges very interesting, but time and money wise it’s a bit of a rabbit hole for me these days. Maybe if I win lotto and employ my own personal gun smith….

That is the dream

[straightshooter]

375 raptor sounds like fun

. a interesting cartridge i came across between the 358win and the whelen is 358 mitchell express . 8x57 mauser necked up to 358

Then why not give consideration to a 9.3x57.
It is still a standard European chambering even though it has been overtaken by much hotter cartridges.
It was once very popular in Scandinavia for taking Moose.
9.3 cal projectiles seem to be far more readily available in Australia than 35 cal rifle projectiles.

very true . but 358 projectiles are more flexible on lighter game species than the 9.3. i used the 9.3 on all manner of game up north, and except for 270gn speers , the majority of 9.3 projectiles are too stout for deer , pigs and the like . american based 35 cal projectiles are designed to, and have variety of choice, handle everything from white tail deer on up . 225gn game kings out of my 358win had energy transfer and shock like nothing i've seen since on pigs. so while 35 cal is hard to find , IMHO it's much better for hunting up and down the east coast of oz than 9.3 . i reckon 9.3 is about perfect for sambar, but 35 whelen with a premium bullet would do well also . while up north lapua "mega" 285gn projectiles flattened wild horses and donkeys DRT, 250ttsx barnes for penetration on buff worked very well with good shot placement . soft 270 speers worked well on large northern pigs so long as you hit the shoulder . medium bores on medium game are about energy transfer to anchor game right on the spot. 35 cal and it's suitable projectiles ,does this very well .only other thing i've seen as devastating on large pigs is 170gn sst out of a mates 8x57 98 mauser

I suppose "The heart wants what it wants, or else it does not care,"
But in my reality "devastating" = 444 Marlin in a front on shot on a very large boar at about 15 meters. Without any exaggeration it dropped on the spot.

[bigrich]

But in my reality "devastating" = 444 Marlin in a front on shot on a very large boar at about 15 meters. Without any exaggeration it dropped on the spot.

yeah, 444 has that reputation . as it can take 444 specific bullets or bullets designed for 44mag pistol, i imagine it to be very useful over a lot of game weights at ranges under 100 metres . i'm not saying you can't take longer shots, but with projectiles with similar BC's to a brick i imagine the ballistics fall off quick over distance .
i tried 45-70 on pigs years ago and found projectile performance to be disappointing. maybe i had the wrong projectiles , woulda thought 300gn hp to be spot on .

[alexjones]

Bigrich,I own a 35 whelen. That'll do me.
Another interesting wildcat is the 375/284. More powder capacity,short length,standard bolt face,and will fit into a cz 550 308w magazine...

Hadn’t heard of that on the 284 case Pete. My local toy shop had a howa built into a 35-284 which I found interesting. I find wild cat cartridges very interesting, but time and money wise it’s a bit of a rabbit hole for me these days. Maybe if I win lotto and employ my own personal gun smith….

That's 100% the way to do it mate. That's what I would do too Then you can legally buy and manufacture machine guns and suppressors under an armourers licence.

[bigrich]

Bigrich,I own a 35 whelen. That'll do me.
Another interesting wildcat is the 375/284. More powder capacity,short length,standard bolt face,and will fit into a cz 550 308w magazine...

Hadn’t heard of that on the 284 case Pete. My local toy shop had a howa built into a 35-284 which I found interesting. I find wild cat cartridges very interesting, but time and money wise it’s a bit of a rabbit hole for me these days. Maybe if I win lotto and employ my own personal gun smith….

That's 100% the way to do it mate. That's what I would do too Then you can legally buy and manufacture machine guns and suppresses under an armourers licence.

umm, not interested in making machine guns or making suppressors . not what i consider a practical hunting rifle for my application, and suppressors will get you in a lot of trouble if not licensed for one . i believe suppressor use also dictates reduced loads , which is counter productive for reach and down range energy . kiwis use them a lot in dense bush close range scenarios i've heard . if i owned a large property and did a lot of pig control , i'd consider applying for a semi auto centrefire .but i'd employ my personal gun smith to craft old school hunting rifles , 404 jefferies on a P14 custom , 7x57 AI on a nice early 98 mauser, that sort of thing . if i lived in the states i'd be inclined to own a MP40 or a early pattern thompson smg i suppose . an ar10 in 358win would be interesting too i reckon . heard a lot of stories about folks using mini 14 in 223 and the chinese sk's with fmj ammo on mobs of pigs back in the day . after poor performance a lot of these guys went back to sporterized 303's and 94 30-30's caused they were more effective .

on second thoughts disregard all of the above . i want a german mg42 ,8x57 loaded with 170gn sst's . mobs of pigs would have no chance . i need about 1000 rounds to get started. can you help AJ i'd also have to get a kubelwagon to mount the mg42 onto i suppose . as my deisel prado doesn't have a sunroof

[bigpete]

Suppressors do not need subsonic or even reduced loads to be useful. A mate was fully licensed to own and use them and I was utterly shocked how well they worked on full power 22-250 loads

[bigrich]

Suppressors do not need subsonic or even reduced loads to be useful. A mate was fully licensed to own and use them and I was utterly shocked how well they worked on full power 22-250 loads

yeah right . that's enlightening . thanks

[alexjones]

Bigrich,I own a 35 whelen. That'll do me.
Another interesting wildcat is the 375/284. More powder capacity,short length,standard bolt face,and will fit into a cz 550 308w magazine...

Hadn’t heard of that on the 284 case Pete. My local toy shop had a howa built into a 35-284 which I found interesting. I find wild cat cartridges very interesting, but time and money wise it’s a bit of a rabbit hole for me these days. Maybe if I win lotto and employ my own personal gun smith….

That's 100% the way to do it mate. That's what I would do too Then you can legally buy and manufacture machine guns and suppresses under an armourers licence.

umm, not interested in making machine guns or making suppressors . not what i consider a practical hunting rifle for my application, and suppressors will get you in a lot of trouble if not licensed for one . i believe suppressor use also dictates reduced loads , which is counter productive for reach and down range energy . kiwis use them a lot in dense bush close range scenarios i've heard . if i owned a large property and did a lot of pig control , i'd consider applying for a semi auto centrefire .but i'd employ my personal gun smith to craft old school hunting rifles , 404 jefferies on a P14 custom , 7x57 AI on a nice early 98 mauser, that sort of thing . if i lived in the states i'd be inclined to own a MP40 or a early pattern thompson smg i suppose . an ar10 in 358win would be interesting too i reckon . heard a lot of stories about folks using mini 14 in 223 and the chinese sk's with fmj ammo on mobs of pigs back in the day . after poor performance a lot of these guys went back to sporterized 303's and 94 30-30's caused they were more effective .

on second thoughts disregard all of the above . i want a german mg42 ,8x57 loaded with 170gn sst's . mobs of pigs would have no chance . i need about 1000 rounds to get started. can you help AJ i'd also have to get a kubelwagon to mount the mg42 onto i suppose . as my deisel prado doesn't have a sunroof

Haha yeah mate. Anything is legal in Queensland you just need enough money to buy the paperwork.

There is a mg42 for sale in Victoria 5/10 condition for only 50grand. Not to bad a price considering the market and that is cheaper than a lot of classic cars.

My friend is a legitimate gun armourer supplying guns for TV and movies and he gets so mad because a lot of rich people jump through the hoops to have an armourer licence so they can have personal collections of machine guns and semi autos etc. And they overpay because they have money then he can't run his business because the price of machine guns go up in value due to inflated demand.

But I say F him. If I had money I would do the same thing because the government sets it up so rich people can buy the machine guns and semi autos but us commoners have to suffer.

[on_one_wheel]

@ $1or more per shot, firing 500 to 1500 rounds per minute, they can keep their machine guns.

I'm happy to "suffer" sending one shot at a time.

Imagine the cost of blasting a 50 cal machine gun

[bladeracer]

umm, not interested in making machine guns or making suppressors . not what i consider a practical hunting rifle for my application, and suppressors will get you in a lot of trouble if not licensed for one . i believe suppressor use also dictates reduced loads , which is counter productive for reach and down range energy . kiwis use them a lot in dense bush close range scenarios i've heard . if i owned a large property and did a lot of pig control , i'd consider applying for a semi auto centrefire .but i'd employ my personal gun smith to craft old school hunting rifles , 404 jefferies on a P14 custom , 7x57 AI on a nice early 98 mauser, that sort of thing . if i lived in the states i'd be inclined to own a MP40 or a early pattern thompson smg i suppose . an ar10 in 358win would be interesting too i reckon . heard a lot of stories about folks using mini 14 in 223 and the chinese sk's with fmj ammo on mobs of pigs back in the day . after poor performance a lot of these guys went back to sporterized 303's and 94 30-30's caused they were more effective .

on second thoughts disregard all of the above . i want a german mg42 ,8x57 loaded with 170gn sst's . mobs of pigs would have no chance . i need about 1000 rounds to get started. can you help AJ i'd also have to get a kubelwagon to mount the mg42 onto i suppose . as my deisel prado doesn't have a sunroof

Suppressors are more effective with supersonic ammo in my opinion, subsonic ammo is already very quiet.

[alexjones]

@ $1or more per shot, firing 500 to 1500 rounds per minute, they can keep their machine guns.

I'm happy to "suffer" sending one shot at a time.

Imagine the cost of blasting a 50 cal machine gun

Check out this belt fed 22. I think we all need this in our life. This would be very fun and cheap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHWhDTOYpQA

[bigrich]

@ $1or more per shot, firing 500 to 1500 rounds per minute, they can keep their machine guns.

I'm happy to "suffer" sending one shot at a time.

Imagine the cost of blasting a 50 cal machine gun

one shot, one kill . not into "spray and pray " myself

[bigrich]

@ $1or more per shot, firing 500 to 1500 rounds per minute, they can keep their machine guns.

I'm happy to "suffer" sending one shot at a time.

Imagine the cost of blasting a 50 cal machine gun

Check out this belt fed 22. I think we all need this in our life. This would be very fun and cheap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHWhDTOYpQA

bloody yanks hey i've seen a 22lr version of the thompson smg on youtube as well