Minimum rifle/barrel length

[Shootermick]

In Victoria the law states that the minimum rifle length must be 750mm and you can’t shorten a barrel to under 500mm, but you can buy a rifle with a factory fitted shorter barrel, Ruger Ranch, CZ 457, Tikka T1X all come with a 16” option.
A bit contradictory.
So, would it be legal to buy a rifle from QLD with a gunsmith shortened barrel to under the 500mm but still over 750mm in total length?
Bit of wishful thinking going on here.

[bladeracer]

In Victoria the law states that the minimum rifle length must be 750mm and you can’t shorten a barrel to under 500mm, but you can buy a rifle with a factory fitted shorter barrel, Ruger Ranch, CZ 457, Tikka T1X all come with a 16” option.
A bit contradictory.
So, would it be legal to buy a rifle from QLD with a gunsmith shortened barrel to under the 500mm but still over 750mm in total length?
Bit of wishful thinking going on here.

That is how I read it. I think if they offer the rifle with a 16" barrel then there would be no issue shortening a 20" to 16". I want a 16" Rossi 92, so I could shorten my 24" Rossi 92 to 16" and would think that would be perfectly legal as they offer the 16" Puma. If the shortest they offer is 20" though I think it would be sensible to apply for a Commissioner's permission before shortening. I really want to shorten the 20" Norinco JW21 to 16" but haven't done so because of that contradiction in the law. At 16", when the rifle is separated into two pieces, both halves would be the same length, making for an excellent take-down pack rifle.

Regardless, it might be sensible to simply apply for the Commissioner's permission anyway, then you know you're covered.

[stihl88]

I have 750mm OAL firearm fitted with a 14" barrel (355mm), bought from NSW manufacturer posted to Victoria no problems.

[bladeracer]

I have 750mm OAL firearm fitted with a 14" barrel (355mm), bought from NSW manufacturer posted to Victoria no problems.

Yes, there is no issue with owning shorter barrels, the law regards shortening a barrel.

[alexjones]

Such a strange law you guys have down there. So you can own a shorter barrel gun if the total length of the gun stays over 75cm but you can't buy a gun with a long barrel and shorten it to keep the total 75cm length?

If the gun is in Queensland with a shorter barrel then it should comply with Victorian law upon entering Victoria because for all intents and purposes it was outside Victorian jurisdiction when the barrel was shortened. An armourer is a manufacture so he can manufacture the gun.

In Queensland Cat A and B firearms can be any barrel length so long as total length is above 75cm.
Cat C,D and R can be any total length.

[Shootermick]

I have 750mm OAL firearm fitted with a 14" barrel (355mm), bought from NSW manufacturer posted to Victoria no problems.

So is this a factory 14” barrel, or was it second hand and shortened there before you bought it?

[stihl88]

I have 750mm OAL firearm fitted with a 14" barrel (355mm), bought from NSW manufacturer posted to Victoria no problems.

So is this a factory 14” barrel, or was it second hand and shortened there before you bought it?

Yes, factory firearm and barrel.

[stihl88]

I have 750mm OAL firearm fitted with a 14" barrel (355mm), bought from NSW manufacturer posted to Victoria no problems.

Yes, there is no issue with owning shorter barrels, the law regards shortening a barrel.

Correct. The way i read it, the law is specific to shortening an existing barrel to no less than 50 centimeters, fitting the firearm with an even shorter factory barrel is ok so long as the OAL is not less than 75 centimeters.

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[Shootermick]

Thanks for the replies.
I’ve sent an email to Vic LRD, I’ll let you know if the outcome when they reply.

[Oldbloke]

Good move mick

[Wapiti]

I've customised a 10/22 with a magpul stock and a Volquartzen 12" carbon wrapped barrel, and it's just over the 750mm OAL without needing to use the additional length of pull butt spacers. Awesome fun. Well worth it.

[Shootermick]

I've customised a 10/22 with a magpul stock and a Volquartzen 12" carbon wrapped barrel, and it's just over the 750mm OAL without needing to use the additional length of pull butt spacers. Awesome fun. Well worth it.

What state are you in mate?
I had thoughts of doing something similar with my 10/22.
The Magpul Hunter stock is as far as it’s gotten so far.

[alexjones]

In Queensland cat C, D or R firearm's are not required to adhere to any minimum lengths. So a Ruger 10/22 will be a C or D(depending on the mag size) and can be any overall length. So once something is deemed cat C or D it can be any total length and is not classed as a pistol.

[stihl88]

In Victoria a longarm under 75 centimeters is classed as a Cat E Longarm (in the same class as a Bazooka, RPG or machine gun), guess they really don't like people sawing the ends off their SG/Rifles

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And a handgun is defined as follows;
(I'm fairly certain i could fire at least half of my firearms with one hand and could probably conceal most of them 'about my person' )

Handgun.jpg (45.77 KiB) Viewed 1907 times

[Wapiti]

I've customised a 10/22 with a magpul stock and a Volquartzen 12" carbon wrapped barrel, and it's just over the 750mm OAL without needing to use the additional length of pull butt spacers. Awesome fun. Well worth it.

What state are you in mate?
I had thoughts of doing something similar with my 10/22.
The Magpul Hunter stock is as far as it’s gotten so far.

Qld, Mick.
So more info that may help:
I bought the barrel online from Cleavers, its on their website store which would be great for you guys down there to have posted too. It was delivered to the farm gate letterbox. Fitted straight in.
They also sell extended bolt handles on new recoil springs, new race bolt kits and a few different triggers, extractor/lighter firing pin kits.
You won't believe the handing difference.
And the compensator that comes with these barrels is amazing at combating the muzzle jump from the bolt flying back and forth. If someone tries to tell you that's BS, it's because they haven't used one. It's insane with a short travel trigger.

I chrony'd some Velocitors from the 12", and they did drop in velocity from the 16" carbon PWS barrel i had on it prior, but a mere 50 fps. Who cares.
Does crack a bit more though. Quite a bit.

If 750mm isn't a Cat C/D requirement in Qld, as I was told by someone at another big shop in Oakey, I don't care. 12" is short enough, it just reaches the end of the forend of the Magpul Hunter stock with the supplied brake and feels like a kids toy gun.

[Sarco]

Altering firearms in Vic is not a big deal.
See Link
https://www.police.vic.gov.au/altering- ... ur-firearm

Fill out the form, receive the approval, and get the job done.

Similarly altering the calibre. Though I have done this (223Rem to 300BO) and I admit that it took something like 5 years to finally get the calibres correct on my Registry list of firearms.

Buying one from interstate may be a different matter, but to my mind, submit PTA including details of barrel length, if approved, buy firearm. I don't think that I would buy it before holding an approved PTA.

[alexjones]

How do the police even know the barrel length? In Queensland only pistol barrel length is recorded on PTAs.

Do PTAs record rifle barrel lengths in Victoria?

[bladeracer]

How do the police even know the barrel length? In Queensland only pistol barrel length is recorded on PTAs.

Do PTAs record rifle barrel lengths in Victoria?

Probably be able to spot it during an inspection. Barrel length isn't listed on the rego papers but I don't know if it goes on the permits.

[alexjones]

How do the police even know the barrel length? In Queensland only pistol barrel length is recorded on PTAs.

Do PTAs record rifle barrel lengths in Victoria?

Probably be able to spot it during an inspection. Barrel length isn't listed on the rego papers but I don't know if it goes on the permits.

Sorry I mean like so long as the rifle is over 75cm how would the police know the history of riles barrel length? Like if it had a 22" then now has a 16" or 14". Is this information recorded against the serial number anywhere? Amourers are licensed and a lot of times are exempt to perform these alterations. So can an amourer not even alter the barrel length?

[bladeracer]

How do the police even know the barrel length? In Queensland only pistol barrel length is recorded on PTAs.

Do PTAs record rifle barrel lengths in Victoria?

Probably be able to spot it during an inspection. Barrel length isn't listed on the rego papers but I don't know if it goes on the permits.

Sorry I mean like so long as the rifle is over 75cm how would the police know the history of riles barrel length? Like if it had a 22" then now has a 16" or 14". Is this information recorded against the serial number anywhere? Amourers are licensed and a lot of times are exempt to perform these alterations.

Oh yes, that I don't know. The officer would have to be an enthusiast or own one himself to immediately recognise that a model never came with that barrel length I guess. 16" is relatively common so a 14" would perhaps stand out. Barrel diameter also makes the length difficult to judge, an 18" bull barrel can sometimes look like it's only 16" long.

[Wapiti]

What does it matter if the firearm is over the minimum length of 750mm? It doesn't.

And it's the model of the firearm, and serial number, that's on file when an inspection might occur. Nothing else. Barrel length isn't listed in Cat A and B, only overall length.

The only issue I can see is a real one, and that's with Cat C&D firearms, which doesn't apply to most anyway. And that is, it doesn't state a minimum length as I am learnedly advised here. Outwardly anyway. The issue would be an overzealous troublemaker coming to inspect your firearms, and because there is no data on underlength for that category, they could easily charge you with an offence based on the Cat A,B specifications. Hence driving you to court to prove this wrong, spending $15k on legals without recompense to prove a point. And this sort of thing definitely happens.
My supplying dealer has 14" and 12" barrelled 223 autoloaders, with collapsing buttstocks, and they sell as is within Cat D without changes as an example and fit within the regs of that category. They don't suit my type of feral animal control, I want reasonable ballistics and even ignore this small cartridge, but for chopper shooting they are becoming popular as distances are short as I'm told.

[Tomotron]

What is the shortest possible barrel length at 75 cm OAL?

[bladeracer]

What is the shortest possible barrel length at 75 cm OAL?

400mm isn't it, regardless of overall length?

[Tomotron]

What is the shortest possible barrel length at 75 cm OAL?

400mm isn't it, regardless of overall length?

That's if you're modifying a barrel to a shorter length e.g. 20 inches to 16, but not if you buy a new barrel e.g. 14 inches. What I meant is the shortest possible barrel length at 75 cm OAL e.g. is it 12 inches, 11.5 even?

[bladeracer]

What is the shortest possible barrel length at 75 cm OAL?

400mm isn't it, regardless of overall length?

That's if you're modifying a barrel to a shorter length e.g. 20 inches to 16, but not if you buy a new barrel e.g. 14 inches. What I meant is the shortest possible barrel length at 75 cm OAL e.g. is it 12 inches, 11.5 even?

I see what you mean. If the Act doesn't list a minimum then I guess it would be whatever the manufacturer offers the rifle at, and is accepted by VicPol. Submit a permit for a 250mm-barrelled rifle and see what they say, but that's going be an odd rifle with a 250mm barrel in a 750mm chassis. Does anybody offer a rifle of 750mm overall length with a barrel shorter than 400mm?

[Tomotron]

What is the shortest possible barrel length at 75 cm OAL?

400mm isn't it, regardless of overall length?

That's if you're modifying a barrel to a shorter length e.g. 20 inches to 16, but not if you buy a new barrel e.g. 14 inches. What I meant is the shortest possible barrel length at 75 cm OAL e.g. is it 12 inches, 11.5 even?

I see what you mean. If the Act doesn't list a minimum then I guess it would be whatever the manufacturer offers the rifle at, and is accepted by VicPol. Submit a permit for a 250mm-barrelled rifle and see what they say, but that's going be an odd rifle with a 250mm barrel in a 750mm chassis. Does anybody offer a rifle of 750mm overall length with a barrel shorter than 400mm?

Unmodded 14-inch barrelled guns can be sold in Vic e.g. WFA1-L rifle and unmodded 10/11/12/13-inch barrels at 75 cm OAL would be theoretically legal.

[Oldbloke]

Thanks for the replies.
I’ve sent an email to Vic LRD, I’ll let you know if the outcome when they reply.

No reply yet??

[bladeracer]

Unmodded 14-inch barrelled guns can be sold in Vic e.g. WFA1-L rifle and unmodded 10/11/12/13-inch barrels at 75 cm OAL would be theoretically legal.

I would agree with that, but whether LRD will allow you to have such a firearm is a separate issue.
I know a guy shooting a Ruger PC Carbine in 9mm that I believe is licenced as a pistol so doesn't actually fit the definition of a rifle for 3-Gun.

[Shootermick]

IMG_7588.png (600.28 KiB) Viewed 577 times

Here is the reply I got. Pretty generic and basically straight out of the rule book. Didn’t exactly answer my question, but I think that a short factory barrel is ok, but a shortened barrel to less than 50cm is a no.

Thanks for the replies.
I’ve sent an email to Vic LRD, I’ll let you know if the outcome when they reply.

No reply yet??

[stihl88]

What is the shortest possible barrel length at 75 cm OAL?

400mm isn't it, regardless of overall length?

That's if you're modifying a barrel to a shorter length e.g. 20 inches to 16, but not if you buy a new barrel e.g. 14 inches. What I meant is the shortest possible barrel length at 75 cm OAL e.g. is it 12 inches, 11.5 even?

I see what you mean. If the Act doesn't list a minimum then I guess it would be whatever the manufacturer offers the rifle at, and is accepted by VicPol. Submit a permit for a 250mm-barrelled rifle and see what they say, but that's going be an odd rifle with a 250mm barrel in a 750mm chassis. Does anybody offer a rifle of 750mm overall length with a barrel shorter than 400mm?

Yes they do, my OP is 750mm OAL and has a 355mm (14") barrel.