Updates on the Eureka Stockade and Australian manufacturing

[Wapiti]

I've been following the progress of ASA and their work on bringing new firearms to the Aus market, specifically ones built here. I think, especially in today's fickle consumer market, it's extremely brave of these guys to be pulling this off.
I'm referring to the Eurekas in 223 (Aus made) and Chimeras (Turkish made) in both 223, 308, 9mm and 12ga.
The honesty of them in explaining the issues they've had, including some design faults (which to be fair, are part and parcel of doing this sort of stuff) is unreal and unheard of today. This includes the inevitable bullsh*t that they are copping from individual states licensing officials.
Manufacturers do not ever have to be so open and honest with all this, including their failures, but the result inevitably is that these products are going to be pretty damn good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JluyYzLhtxg
There's many updates in the past too, for those interested in what's being done here.

Not trying to be a smart-arse, but as a dual metal tradesperson and Mech Engineer, I am sympathetic with their attempts especially their explanations of problems they've overcome show some mistakes, but they have been quick to realise this and make changes. Things like gas blocks made from aluminum to save on cost and machine time ending up being unacceptable.
They've also been incredibly receptive to taking on suggestions to make their products more foolproof and reliable, even one which I proposed such as redesigning the 308 to take Pmags instead of another unique proprietary design of Turkish home-grown steel mags, for example. Which they are actually doing.

I think there are firearms here about to be released which will be accepted enthusiastically by those who see the usefulness of these firearms. Primary Producers and pest controllers who can't access Cat D gear, or paper shooters in IPSC for example, or just general urban shooters and hunters looking for something different to have some pleasure with. They won't suit everyone's needs or biases, but I think they are going to kick all the others for six pretty soon. If this really does come to fruition.

[Wyliecoyote]

The paragraphs read out are self explanatory in lawyer speak. The firearm operation is within current Cat B but the firearm appearance is that of Restricted. That is all that NSW weapons licensing needs to allow it or ban it.
To begin with it may go to the head licensing or even the commissioner where the decisions made are almost always on their personal view after some appointed flunky looks at it and reports on how hard it may or may not be to illegally modify it for the wrong kind of purpose. This of course is subjective where the real motive is to demoralise and or send them broke. The latter is best outcome for the government and i have personally seen one such case with what we would call a slightly out of the ordinary bolt gun.
If it goes to the AG then that will be an expensive and very drawn out process.
I wish them the best of luck with it but the inclusion of a gas block in my personal view is going to be the death knell. I could be totally wrong but it is the one component other variants don't have for B classification but all semi and auto variants do have.

[bladeracer]

I spent almost an hour on the phone with Bastion just before Christmas and it'd be hard to find somebody more enthusiastic about what they're trying to achieve. I hope they manage to make these firearms totally awesome.

I've been following the progress of ASA and their work on bringing new firearms to the Aus market, specifically ones built here. I think, especially in today's fickle consumer market, it's extremely brave of these guys to be pulling this off.
I'm referring to the Eurekas in 223 (Aus made) and Chimeras (Turkish made) in both 223, 308, 9mm and 12ga.
The honesty of them in explaining the issues they've had, including some design faults (which to be fair, are part and parcel of doing this sort of stuff) is unreal and unheard of today. This includes the inevitable bullsh*t that they are copping from individual states licensing officials.
Manufacturers do not ever have to be so open and honest with all this, including their failures, but the result inevitably is that these products are going to be pretty damn good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JluyYzLhtxg
There's many updates in the past too, for those interested in what's being done here.

Not trying to be a smart-arse, but as a dual metal tradesperson and Mech Engineer, I am sympathetic with their attempts especially their explanations of problems they've overcome show some mistakes, but they have been quick to realise this and make changes. Things like gas blocks made from aluminum to save on cost and machine time ending up being unacceptable.
They've also been incredibly receptive to taking on suggestions to make their products more foolproof and reliable, even one which I proposed such as redesigning the 308 to take Pmags instead of another unique proprietary design of Turkish home-grown steel mags, for example. Which they are actually doing.

I think there are firearms here about to be released which will be accepted enthusiastically by those who see the usefulness of these firearms. Primary Producers and pest controllers who can't access Cat D gear, or paper shooters in IPSC for example, or just general urban shooters and hunters looking for something different to have some pleasure with. They won't suit everyone's needs or biases, but I think they are going to kick all the others for six pretty soon. If this really does come to fruition.

[Wapiti]

Tell you what, I'll be very quick to look at the 308 Chimeras. Will be a very useful firearm and one not restricted only to the property it is registered to (I.e. Cat D).
If they turn out as I hope they will, there will be a few PTA's put in here.

[alexjones]

Turkey is starting to make some good rifles lately. Cheap, reliable and they take pmags.

[Wapiti]

The 223 Chimeras always were going to take Pmags, but the 308's weren't.
They were already testing prototypes with a proprietary steel/plastic combination made in Turkey, and all I could think of was, WTF?

Anyway, after some negotiating now they will, I have been told. I believe the video link does mention that too, along with the redesign of the larger mag well in the machining program.
Which is great, because they are the best mags in 308 by far, nice and short for their length, completely reliable and, as I have found, indestructible.

I recently lost a full 20-rd 308 Pmag out the door of the Cruiser ute, and it was mashed into the freshly bulldozer-shattered rocks along a fenceline cut when I ran over it a few times. I picked it up days later when I found it and put it straight back into the rifle it was from, no dramas except for some deep gouges to remember that mistake.

To consider genuine requests from potential hard use customers will benefit everybody and make for a better more reliable product, and people should support this hard work and respect for the customer.
Now all they need to do is to machine the pic-rail into the receiver top in one piece.

[Jorlcrin]

My experience with the Magpul .308 Pmags isnt anywhere near as positive.

Both the 10-round Magpul PMags supplied with my Ruger Precision Rifle(Gen 2) in Dec 2017, failed in under 12 months.
Both became harder and harder to work the bolt with anything mroe than a half-full mag, and eventually started causing mis-feeds.
Looking at them, it seems the rear-tops of the mags are too weak, and have spread over time.
I mentioned this to the gunshop I purchased the rifle from, and subsequent advice from Ruger supplier was I would need to return the rifle for repair.
Pretty obvious the damn mags arent strong enough in that area, but I'm expected to ship the damn rifle halfway across Australia for them to twiddle it.
Reason I KNOW the mags arent strong enough, is the MDT Polymags have a slightly beefier rear top to the mag, and have worked perfectly from day 1, and are now nearly 13 years old(Purchased with an MDT tac-21 chassis for my Rem 700).
All my MDT Polymags(Now have 3) and my 3 AI metal mags, all work perfectly in this rifle.
But the Magpul Pmags dont, and had both failed inside 12 months.

So, I wont be buying another Magpul Pmag for either of my .308 rifles.

[Wapiti]

That's interesting to hear. I wonder what a bolt action target rifle does to a magazine that an autoloader used in the field being knocked around every day doesn't.
I reckon it's the Ruger perversion to try and make a Frankenstein rifle that takes two completely different types of mags to satisfy some marketing or some tacticool box ticking exercise and they don't suit. Well, something is wrong.
Especially since these magazines are the first choices of, and supplied to, the most elite military units in the world because they passed all their torture tests against the competitors including the worst conditions of the battlefields of the world.

I can say though from my actual experience where the rifles are carried on racks, in dust, on buggies and in utes, spares in bags bouncing around fully loaded, that we haven't had any wear whatsoever. And they go out every day for a run, whether the intention of use is there or not.

The magazines are a very nice fit inside the receiver forgings, and don't experience any pressure internally to separate them in any direction and are supported from all directions against being able to deform. The only moving parts to touch the mags in use is the bolt hold open from the follower (and only when empty), and the mag catch slot, which doesn't get any pressure other than gravity. The bolt only contacts the top cartridge, not the mag whatsoever.

These are used both in a PWS and Wilson Combat 308 rifles. We rotate the same 6 mags through each rifle so all get use (we could only buy 20 rounders in sets of 6 through AG Permits) so they get field use which quickly sorts out the junk from the jewels. If anything I have can break, I will find a way to break it..

Lately I've bought a few 10 rounders,which is what would be supplied with the Chimeras, and no problems whatsoever.
I also modify the follower bottom sections so that they hold a full 10 or 20 rounds respectfully with enough room to get in one more, so that when they are inserted into the firearms over a closed bolt they go in with plenty of room to push the top cartridge down and click in positively and not fall out if I'm not paying attention. Thats how I lost one before and did my own torture test.
Again, despite all the internet cr@p saying this ruins them and they misfeed, they don't whatsoever even with the high feed speeds of an auto bolt.

I do make an effort to only make comments on this forum about my real experience to help others who are casually reading these threads. I don't have an axe to grind, nor favour anything unless it works perfectly and doesn't f*ck me around.
I sit here punching this reply out for 10 minutes to inform others not to listen to misinformation regardless who I p1ss off.
Maybe something's up with your use of the product, or it being used outside of it's designed use to satisfy some marketing goal in a bolt action. Or some just need to argue something to put others down for some reason. Who knows. It's the internet.

[Blr243]

Blade , during your chat with bastion , did u get any idea of when those eureka rifles will hit the shelves ? I’m wondering if my pta will expire

[bladeracer]

Blade , during your chat with bastion , did u get any idea of when those eureka rifles will hit the shelves ? I’m wondering if my pta will expire

No, he was very circumspect about dates, he wants to be absolutely confident they won't be another disaster when they hit the dealers shelves. My mate paid for the Eureka months ago so he's waiting as well.

[Blr243]

I think they have trained themselves to not commit to dates. Looks bad if they can’t deliver on time. I was looking fwd to it be available for my hunt this Xmas 2024 , then looking fwd to it being available for my end of feb hunt. But realistically I think I’ll be lucky to see it before the pta expires … fortunately I have a new shotgun I can’t wait to use. That will keep me distracted

[Coxy383]

I've been following the progress of ASA and their work on bringing new firearms to the Aus market, specifically ones built here. I think, especially in today's fickle consumer market, it's extremely brave of these guys to be pulling this off.
I'm referring to the Eurekas in 223 (Aus made) and Chimeras (Turkish made) in both 223, 308, 9mm and 12ga.
The honesty of them in explaining the issues they've had, including some design faults (which to be fair, are part and parcel of doing this sort of stuff) is unreal and unheard of today. This includes the inevitable bullsh*t that they are copping from individual states licensing officials.
Manufacturers do not ever have to be so open and honest with all this, including their failures, but the result inevitably is that these products are going to be pretty damn good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JluyYzLhtxg
There's many updates in the past too, for those interested in what's being done here.

Not trying to be a smart-arse, but as a dual metal tradesperson and Mech Engineer, I am sympathetic with their attempts especially their explanations of problems they've overcome show some mistakes, but they have been quick to realise this and make changes. Things like gas blocks made from aluminum to save on cost and machine time ending up being unacceptable.
They've also been incredibly receptive to taking on suggestions to make their products more foolproof and reliable, even one which I proposed such as redesigning the 308 to take Pmags instead of another unique proprietary design of Turkish home-grown steel mags, for example. Which they are actually doing.

I think there are firearms here about to be released which will be accepted enthusiastically by those who see the usefulness of these firearms. Primary Producers and pest controllers who can't access Cat D gear, or paper shooters in IPSC for example, or just general urban shooters and hunters looking for something different to have some pleasure with. They won't suit everyone's needs or biases, but I think they are going to kick all the others for six pretty soon. If this really does come to fruition.

I think in Australia someone who is manufacturing firearms for our use must be recognised and supported in today's world as they are taking a huge risk. If WA passes and the different laws trying to be passed within different states they could really ban it all tomorrow if they really wanted putting these people out of business.

[Wapiti]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/I4V_ghA3Oy0

How good's this? An obviously excited Bastion, pleased with all the hard work they've done.

This rifle might also have some interest to the people who have personal bias against the rifles being made to take advantage of the particular ergonomics of the AR15-style layout, useability and controls.

I hope that upcoming videos that are promised will include the 308 version, which is more suited to those of us in the bush. Of course, showing my own bias (personal] needs of myself and primary producers, admittedly) here!

[Wapiti]

Well I've made a huge mistake in hoping this firearm would be a "game changer".
Any of you with engineering design interests who check out the videos, especially part 2, will be disappointed. I had high hopes, especially with a supposed "clean sheet" design, but I was wrong.

The awful flimsy scope rail clamped to the barrel on the very end with two screws (imagine this with the huge scopes people need nowadays stressing the mount end, flapping about), the use of set screws holding everything together instead of the parts themselves being threaded together to secure them (example, the gas piston), springs compressing to past their design lengths and weights instead of "settling" to their design weights, the barrel pinch bolt being a huge wear issue needing to be taken in/out to clean and coming loose due to forces. They think changing it to an LH thread will solve it and tightening it to almost yield points.

Yes, being a Monday's expert is not an endearing trait but, bloody hell. Imagine the 308 version tearing itself to bits with this same design and all the extra forces, gas and stresses.
This is why the AR design, modified to a gas piston design over the DI system has been so successful, despite some people's dislike of it. It is immune to all these issues. Bugger.

[dnedative]

The guns junk, as it stands its a good prototype for beta testing but thats it.
Needs heaps of s**t fixed, changed and redesigned. It looks like it runs far too hard and is over gassed given its utterly f***ed the recoil spring so quickly and the bolt has hammered through the buffer. That's probably more of a fundamental issue than 'better spring will fix it' type fix.

The pic rail is a s**t design, its never going to be good or work well.
Machining it into the receiver would be better but given how the bolt and action assemble from the front having it hold zero is going to be an issue, as it stands, that single pin with the bolt the comes loose is no good. LH thread is a solution to a problem that shouldn't exist.

Its a interesting design that I'm sure can be rectified but I cant see it getting fixed.
Reminds me of when Daniel Defense bought the Hudson pistol, had a few issues they thought could be easily fixed with some tweaks. Ended up being a near group up redesign to do it.

[stihl88]

Well I've made a huge mistake in hoping this firearm would be a "game changer".
Any of you with engineering design interests who check out the videos, especially part 2, will be disappointed. I had high hopes, especially with a supposed "clean sheet" design, but I was wrong.

The awful flimsy scope rail clamped to the barrel on the very end with two screws (imagine this with the huge scopes people need nowadays stressing the mount end, flapping about), the use of set screws holding everything together instead of the parts themselves being threaded together to secure them (example, the gas piston), springs compressing to past their design lengths and weights instead of "settling" to their design weights, the barrel pinch bolt being a huge wear issue needing to be taken in/out to clean and coming loose due to forces. They think changing it to an LH thread will solve it and tightening it to almost yield points.

Yes, being a Monday's expert is not an endearing trait but, bloody hell. Imagine the 308 version tearing itself to bits with this same design and all the extra forces, gas and stresses.
This is why the AR design, modified to a gas piston design over the DI system has been so successful, despite some people's dislike of it. It is immune to all these issues. Bugger.

Yes mate as i pointed out here this thing is a frankenstein, i wouldn't touch it with a 10' pole... viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19256&sid=50344bb2d7c43e4db1cbb30662c87726#p331252

Anyone who doesn't like the AR has never touched or owned one.

[bladeracer]

Anyone who doesn't like the AR has never touched or owned one.

I LOVE the AR, but I don't need a crippled aesthetic replica of one

[stihl88]

Anyone who doesn't like the AR has never touched or owned one.

I LOVE the AR, but I don't need a crippled aesthetic replica of one

I hear you and yes the like of the Eureka Stockade and Taipan platforms are probably only 20% that of an AR, so yeah there's certainly some rubbish out there but If we focus on manufacturers like Oceania Precision, Wedgetail and Warwick well their platforms are every bit an AR minus the gas system meaning i can fit them with everything from a standard AR market minus the gas system and the BCG and some of it's componentry. The Chinmera in particular doesn't come close to the AR platform.

If i wanted to get the appropriate licenses for semi-auto i could and these 3 manufacturers will cater for semi-auto AR also but for me right now it's not worth the hassle...

[Billo]

Well I've made a huge mistake in hoping this firearm would be a "game changer".
Any of you with engineering design interests who check out the videos, especially part 2, will be disappointed. I had high hopes, especially with a supposed "clean sheet" design, but I was wrong.

The awful flimsy scope rail clamped to the barrel on the very end with two screws (imagine this with the huge scopes people need nowadays stressing the mount end, flapping about), the use of set screws holding everything together instead of the parts themselves being threaded together to secure them (example, the gas piston), springs compressing to past their design lengths and weights instead of "settling" to their design weights, the barrel pinch bolt being a huge wear issue needing to be taken in/out to clean and coming loose due to forces. They think changing it to an LH thread will solve it and tightening it to almost yield points.

Yes, being a Monday's expert is not an endearing trait but, bloody hell. Imagine the 308 version tearing itself to bits with this same design and all the extra forces, gas and stresses.
This is why the AR design, modified to a gas piston design over the DI system has been so successful, despite some people's dislike of it. It is immune to all these issues. Bugger.

It was the first thing I noticed

[geoff]

I'm not necessarily the target market for these firearms but after stumbling upon their "torture test" part 2 video of the 223 chimera on YouTube I do have to say that I am also impressed with their transparency and candour showing their customers what it takes to bring products into our market.

[Wapiti]

Unreal how transparent they are, hey. That isn't anything like the norm now.
It will help people decide either way whether the rifle is for them.

Towards the end there was a hint at the problems screwing everything together and securing stressed parts with loctited grubscrews - they all came loose. OK so it was a high round count and the heat was blamed. There are high temp versions of thread lockers, but the issue would be when that design makes you have to loosen them to clean the gun. I don't see that going well, and tiny Allen hex head holes being turned into round ones.

I know there are detractors to the AR pattern and I'm certain its just bias not experience with this "pattern", especially the great new piston driven AR rifles now that just dont foul the chambers at all but this design that seems to scare the politicians doesn't have these issues.
Still got high hopes, but the 308 is conspicuous by its absence.

[geoff]

Unreal how transparent they are, hey. That isn't anything like the norm now.
It will help people decide either way whether the rifle is for them.

Towards the end there was a hint at the problems screwing everything together and securing stressed parts with loctited grubscrews - they all came loose. OK so it was a high round count and the heat was blamed. There are high temp versions of thread lockers, but the issue would be when that design makes you have to loosen them to clean the gun. I don't see that going well, and tiny Allen hex head holes being turned into round ones.

I know there are detractors to the AR pattern and I'm certain its just bias not experience with this "pattern", especially the great new piston driven AR rifles now that just dont foul the chambers at all but this design that seems to scare the politicians doesn't have these issues.
Still got high hopes, but the 308 is conspicuous by its absence.

Agree on all fronts there, yes.

Any small hex head grub screw that needs regular attention will be completely rounded by the average hamfist owner almost immediately

The general public grossly underestimate what it takes to r&d products and get them into market so it's good to be taking everyone along for the ride, so to speak.

[dnedative]

The Turkish manufacturer would of known the issues and just didn't care enough to fix them, the alternative is that they did absolutely no testing which is worse.

[stihl88]

FHCK put a video up on the Chimera, he does a brief teardown of the rifle. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFTcGxGEkr4
Looking at the components this thing looks actually quite solid and well made and much more thought out and better than i was expecting and I think it has some potential yet.

[Wapiti]

As an example, have a look at the evolution of the AR-pattern gas block. The pinned type. It's bomb proof.
Or the Ruger Mini-14 self-cleaning gas piston design. Or even the early '50's M14. Combine these proven designs and an orang-utan could service it with an old pair of jocks as a rag without any tools whatsoever.

[stihl88]

As an example, have a look at the evolution of the AR-pattern gas block. The pinned type. It's bomb proof.
Or the Ruger Mini-14 gas piston design. Combine the two and an orang-utan could service it with an old pair of jocks as a rag without any tools whatsoever.

I'm very familiar with the AR's design and it's gas system, i've worked on the AR system from barrel swaps, feed ramp porting/polishing to Bolt Carrier Group tuning, the list goes on, i love the AR platform... Probably why i was put off by the Chimera at first but after watching FHCK's video of the components and rundown i'm actually optimistic, its components look to be very solid and well made which in the current day of chinesium crap is a blessing.

I was originally concerned about it holding zero due to the barrel mating with the receiver but the pinned pic rail is solid looking so can't see this being a concern and it overcomes the issue of having to zero each time users remove the barrel to clean etc.

My guess, for $1500 i think it will sell and perform well.

[alexjones]

This celiik arms push button 223 just listed has a side folding stock. That looks cool.

https://usedguns.com.au/gun/697610/

[Bugman]

Myself? I have no interest in this style/type of firearm or anything from Eureka Stockade Firearms. I am old fashioned and prefer stuff like Winchester model 70, Ruger M77 etc.
I know some of you like the styles built around AR types, and good for you....BUT I would have guess that quite a few of us don't
Each to their own.

[Wapiti]

Yes, I too love my bolt actions for hunting and even longer range pest shooting.
The AR "platform" rifles have some huge advantages, and for autoloaders they are top of the tree, this style of rifle will print tiny groups just like a bolt gun, and all the controls are ergonomic, and you get on and off the gun without thought. For purely pest destruction they have shown they are the true kings here, if people look at them as a tool without emotion. They will run for thousands of rounds without touching them, and they certainly haven't any pinch bolts or set screws holding vital parts in place. Even their rails are machined in.
But they certainly aren't a thing of beauty, merely a tool that's completely evolved and one that is incredibly cheap to manufacture in quantity. You do not need any tools either to replace working parts except for the barrel and maybe the gas plug if you have one of the more reliable piston AR's with adjustable gas.

My concerns were some very strange, corner and cost cutting design ideas engineering-wise that I'd hoped could have been addressed but it is Turkish after all.
And the twice a year hunter will probably never see any issues from these things.

[alexjones]

I just love all guns, new or old guns are good.