Should Australia Go It Alone

[Bugman]

China giving us a taste of our own medicine.
Apparently we don't like it.

Secondly, we've never prepared for an attack from the south, they'll be hoping to watch our movement at this time to learn how we respond.
Imagine how easy it would be to inflicted major damage from the un-prepared Southern waters when a "exercise" turns into war.

we need long range missile capability . i guess if they invade melbourne comrade dan would greet them with open arms

I reckon a smart move would be to not overreact over China doing something that every other navy does within international law, we should take the moral high ground and invite them into port for a visit instead of trying to escalate tensions.

.......and they can sample our homemade dim sims!

[mchughcb]

Trump just booted Zelensky from the White House, not even allowing him to stay for the prepared lunch. Well at least he's always welcome to Canberra and with open arms.

[alexjones]

China giving us a taste of our own medicine.
Apparently we don't like it.

Secondly, we've never prepared for an attack from the south, they'll be hoping to watch our movement at this time to learn how we respond.
Imagine how easy it would be to inflicted major damage from the un-prepared Southern waters when a "exercise" turns into war.

we need long range missile capability . i guess if they invade melbourne comrade dan would greet them with open arms

I reckon a smart move would be to not overreact over China doing something that every other navy does within international law, we should take the moral high ground and invite them into port for a visit instead of trying to escalate tensions.

about 20 years ago a chinese naval ship visited brisbane . the public wasn't allowed anywhere near it and chinese military stood guard on the dock with ak47's. i think that's the only time i've heard of a visiting navy ship being guarded on our soil by visiting foreign troops with automatic weapons . in brisbane for god's sake ! the media made a big deal out of it and it put rudd in a awkward position as he was very pro china back then . Chinese military like playing the bully boy . "tell 'em to go get stuffed...." i reckon

America guards there ships here too.

Remember a few years ago maybe 10 or 15 when an American navy ship was attacked in the Gulf by a little tinny filled with explosives?

Months later an American ship was in I believe Sydney harbour and the AFP patrolled around a set distance to stop people going in because if they did the Americans were going to assume it hostile and defend themselves without warning.

It was all over the news at the time.

[alexjones]

Speaking of security it annoys me how foreign politicians security teams are exempt from our laws. As a born and bred QLD man I can't carry a gun to defend my life yet when a foreigner comes here the law allows them exemptions to carry. That is not fair!

[alexjones]

See Trump dominate Zelensky to his face? Haha

This is why I like Trump because he goes against the grain. Other politicians would do this behind closed doors but Trump does it in front of the camera for transparency.

Zelensky just sits there nothing he can do because he needs America. America does not need him.

"Your in no position to tell us what were gonna feel"
~Trump

Haha that above line was gold!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?si=Bu_0xC ... e=youtu.be

[Oldbloke]

This bloke has Trump worked.

https://youtu.be/OBIRPVUkWBA?si=JcNckfz-ZGaoW3FR

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[6mm Remington]

Hey Old Bloke. You wouldn't be a Pom by any chance would you ?

[on_one_wheel]

FFS, read "The Art Of War" by Sun-Tzu.
This will only help you if you have the ability to understand it however and see it happening here in the real world.
Completely wrong and why we are being disrespected by the Chinese. And in fact, anyone else off our shores manipulating us through our pathetic "politicians". And some of you just are fooled by anything, respectfully.

The Chinese are hell bent on controlling the South Pacific, and in dominating the world. Financially as well as by force.
Trying the soft touch and trying to play that "long game" in manipulating them in turn, is for the foolish.
They only respect strength and pushback.
They will NEVER be fooled by the weakling approach.


That's exactly like the schoolboy being constantly being picked on by bullies in the playground.
He's told to ask them to first stop, then explain to them they are hurting him, and that they should stop. Maybe even try and be friendly with them to get their respect.
In fact. it doesn't give them respect, it makes YOU WEAK, and they have you beaten right there.
In the contrary, if you told your schoolboy son that, the next time they do it, he tells them firmly to stop and never hassle him again. If the biggest one does not do that, then he smashes the bully as hard as he can in the middle of his face, and when he stumbles back, kick him in the nuts.
Watch what happens after that.
Disregard the detention and Dad being summoned up to the school principal for explanation. Don't ask me how I know this. But the bulling stopped forever.

Gee you rant a bit ...
Yes I've had a good read of "the art of war" And if our government gets smart, two can play that game.
Edit: let me add that if you truly understood the writings in "The Art Of War" You'd understand that we've played right into their hand by jumping up and down about about nothing, we've literally shown them our inability to identify a real threat.

And to the other bits in your post ... no ****** Sherlock, there's no need to preach to the converted.

[Oldbloke]

Pom?

About 5 generations back. Good convict stock.

[mchughcb]

That's the end of Zelensky. He said in Russian to JD Vance f**king b*tch under breath which was recorded which Trump heard who then lost it.

There's no stepping back from that. USA isn't going to even help in negotiations while he's in charge, he's not stepping down or having elections. He really needs to cone to Australia and see Albo.

[Wapiti]

FFS, read "The Art Of War" by Sun-Tzu.
This will only help you if you have the ability to understand it however and see it happening here in the real world.
Completely wrong and why we are being disrespected by the Chinese. And in fact, anyone else off our shores manipulating us through our pathetic "politicians". And some of you just are fooled by anything, respectfully.

The Chinese are hell bent on controlling the South Pacific, and in dominating the world. Financially as well as by force.
Trying the soft touch and trying to play that "long game" in manipulating them in turn, is for the foolish.
They only respect strength and pushback.
They will NEVER be fooled by the weakling approach.


That's exactly like the schoolboy being constantly being picked on by bullies in the playground.
He's told to ask them to first stop, then explain to them they are hurting him, and that they should stop. Maybe even try and be friendly with them to get their respect.
In fact. it doesn't give them respect, it makes YOU WEAK, and they have you beaten right there.
In the contrary, if you told your schoolboy son that, the next time they do it, he tells them firmly to stop and never hassle him again. If the biggest one does not do that, then he smashes the bully as hard as he can in the middle of his face, and when he stumbles back, kick him in the nuts.
Watch what happens after that.
Disregard the detention and Dad being summoned up to the school principal for explanation. Don't ask me how I know this. But the bulling stopped forever.

Gee you rant a bit ...
Yes I've had a good read of "the art of war" And if our government gets smart, two can play that game.
Edit: let me add that if you truly understood the writings in "The Art Of War" You'd understand that we've played right into their hand by jumping up and down about about nothing, we've literally shown them our inability to identify a real threat.

And to the other bits in your post ... no ****** Sherlock, there's no need to preach to the converted.

At first I thought you were being really nasty to me and that really hurt my feelings... you don't know how desperate I was for approval from my superiors.
But then I realised you didn't get my post and instead of being nasty you are only just dyslexic. I'm shattered.

[on_one_wheel]

Perhaps I'm so dyslexic I didn't understand what FFS ment ?

At least we've established one thing, you can dish it out but you certainly can't take it

[bigrich]

trump tends to act and say things at times to impress the "mob" . we all don't know sh!t about why they got stuck into zelensky . we're not privy to all the facts , some of you are making assumptions on the face value of media reports . and as usual turn to insulting each other when opinions differ . one day i'll be on this forum and actually see intelligent debate on politics. but i won't hold my breath .........all these politicians , including trump, have agendas and engage in propaganda. the white house stoush was done in front of cameras for a reason

[mchughcb]

trump tends to act and say things at times to impress the "mob" . we all don't know sh!t about why they got stuck into zelensky . we're not privy to all the facts , some of you are making assumptions on the face value of media reports . and as usual turn to insulting each other when opinions differ . one day i'll be on this forum and actually see intelligent debate on politics. but i won't hold my breath .........all these politicians , including trump, have agendas and engage in propaganda. the white house stoush was done in front of cameras for a reason

Zelensky was there to get a mineral deal signed that he proposed. He wanted security guarantees with it. He was warned he wouldn't get them and he brought it up again. This was his way to get the USA involved even if Ukraine wasn't part of NATO. However he never got it signed. He called Vance a Russian expletive and then was kicked out of the office.

If Trump signed the deal and American companies started mining then the government may be obligated to protect those assets. Just like the USA was protecting copper mines in Afghanistan for Xinjing copper from the Taliban and remember Trump complaining on an interview about it. He said the Chinese should do it. The Chinese were probably thinking, it's your war and your problem.

[bigrich]

trump tends to act and say things at times to impress the "mob" . we all don't know sh!t about why they got stuck into zelensky . we're not privy to all the facts , some of you are making assumptions on the face value of media reports . and as usual turn to insulting each other when opinions differ . one day i'll be on this forum and actually see intelligent debate on politics. but i won't hold my breath .........all these politicians , including trump, have agendas and engage in propaganda. the white house stoush was done in front of cameras for a reason

Zelensky was there to get a mineral deal signed that he proposed. He wanted security guarantees with it. He was warned he wouldn't get them and he brought it up again. This was his way to get the USA involved even if Ukraine wasn't part of NATO. However he never got it signed. He called Vance a Russian expletive and then was kicked out of the office.

If Trump signed the deal and American companies started mining then the government may be obligated to protect those assets. Just like the USA was protecting copper mines in Afghanistan for Xinjing copper from the Taliban and remember Trump complaining on an interview about it. He said the Chinese should do it. The Chinese were probably thinking, it's your war and your problem.

i do believe trump proposed the mineral deal as a way of getting the billions of financial and military aid paid back ,and i don't believe zelensky was keen on the deal at all . we saw the carry on in front of the cameras, what goes on when they're off camera might be totally different. i don't trust any of them to be honest . the best thing about this situation is the possibility of europe being more united and looking after their own problems in their own backyard instead of expecting the USA to save the day at great cost to america . USA spent trillions being in afghanistan for years, as soon as they pulled out the taliban walked straight in . all that money, effort and lives for no result . i think trump is trying to avoid the same thing in ukraine , which is why he's pushing for peace so hard even if there's no benefit for Ukraine , it's just good business sense , and he's a business man not a career politician . putin must laughing and china's watching this closely . the only winners are the commies ATM , and i don't like commies JMHO

[mchughcb]

America's war on terror cost 6.6 trillion.

The sooner Trump gets out of that and focuses on America lives the better.

[Oldbloke]

trump tends to act and say things at times to impress the "mob" . we all don't know sh!t about why they got stuck into zelensky . we're not privy to all the facts , some of you are making assumptions on the face value of media reports . and as usual turn to insulting each other when opinions differ . one day i'll be on this forum and actually see intelligent debate on politics. but i won't hold my breath .........all these politicians , including trump, have agendas and engage in propaganda. the white house stoush was done in front of cameras for a reason

Zelensky was there to get a mineral deal signed that he (trump) proposed. He wanted security guarantees with it. He was warned he wouldn't get them and he brought it up again. This was his way to get the USA involved even if Ukraine wasn't part of NATO. However he never got it signed. He called Vance a Russian expletive and then was kicked out of the office.

If Trump signed the deal and American companies started mining then the government may be obligated to protect those assets. Just like the USA was protecting copper mines in Afghanistan for Xinjing copper from the Taliban and remember Trump complaining on an interview about it. He said the Chinese should do it. The Chinese were probably thinking, it's your war and your problem.

1. i do believe trump proposed the mineral deal as a way of getting the billions of financial and military aid paid back ,and i don't believe zelensky was keen on the deal at all . we saw the carry on in front of the cameras, what goes on when they're off camera might be totally different. i don't trust any of them to be honest . the best thing about this situation is the possibility of europe being more united and looking after their own problems in their own backyard instead of expecting the USA to save the day at great cost to america . USA spent trillions being in afghanistan for years, as soon as they pulled out the taliban walked straight in . all that money, effort and lives for no result . i 2. think trump is trying to avoid the same thing in ukraine , which is why he's pushing for peace so hard even if there's no benefit for Ukraine , it's just good business sense , and he's a business man not a career politician . putin must laughing and china's watching this closely . the only winners are the commies ATM , and i don't like commies JMHO

1. 100% correct.

2. Nope, trump just wants the Nobel Peace Price and fuk Ukraine's future and its people.

3. You just can't believe ANTHING that comes out of Trump or Vance's mouths.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/f ... -zelenskyy

4. Trump needs to rename Truth Social to Lies Social.

P.S. About half of the US assistance was never a loan, it was gifted by Biden.

Same with France and UK. A mix if loans and gifts.

[alexjones]

The people who support Ukraine the most never donate their own money or their sons/grandsons to fight. Its always someone else's money and kin they expect to do the bidding. The American tax payers want their money back. Thats what the mineral deal is all about.

[straightshooter]

It now seems there was an underlying reason for the putative White House theatrical fiasco and why Zelensky was not about to agree to the minerals deal.
Turns out Zelensky has already signed over rights to all of Ukraine's ports on the Black Sea and all the minerals Trump was so eager to get, to the UK.
I think the US may be gradually tiring of playing the role of Lenny to the role of George as is being played by the UK.
Anybody who had to read "Of Mice and Men" at school will understand what I am getting at.
The UK's age old tactic of "let's you and him have a fight" may well be coming to an end.
I have this sneaking feeling that if things keep going the way they are the opening salvo of WWIII proper may be a Tsar Bomb on London and Lenny may well be disinclined to intervene.

[Oldbloke]

It now seems there was an underlying reason for the putative White House theatrical fiasco and why Zelensky was not about to agree to the minerals deal.
Turns out Zelensky has already signed over rights to all of Ukraine's ports on the Black Sea and all the minerals Trump was so eager to get, to the UK.
I think the US may be gradually tiring of playing the role of Lenny to the role of George as is being played by the UK.
Anybody who had to read "Of Mice and Men" at school will understand what I am getting at.
The UK's age old tactic of "let's you and him have a fight" may well be coming to an end.
I have this sneaking feeling that if things keep going the way they are the opening salvo of WWIII proper may be a Tsar Bomb on London and Lenny may well be disinclined to intervene.

Where does that info come from?

[on_one_wheel]

They sure got stuck into Zelensky, even criticising his choice of clothing.
It's probably about time to dose the drinking water with chill pill meds.

[Billo]

That's the end of Zelensky. He said in Russian to JD Vance f**king b*tch under breath which was recorded which Trump heard who then lost it.

There's no stepping back from that. USA isn't going to even help in negotiations while he's in charge, he's not stepping down or having elections. He really needs to cone to Australia and see Albo.

I doubt it Chucky, everyone knows Putin is pissing in Trumps pocket. Putin has stated that Ukraine doesnt exist, same with the Govt.

This war will either end with Putin dying or retiring, that's probably the same moment

[mchughcb]

Starky is a national treasure and doesn't let people BS.

https://youtu.be/ItCYWJBSJX0?si=dmJBWhamHSCPguHc

[Tinker]

What's next? Trump sends us an invoice for the Battle of the Coral Sea in 1942?

[mchughcb]

What's next? Trump sends us an invoice for the Battle of the Coral Sea in 1942?

In 2006, the UK paid off the WW2 debt to the USA.
Wars are expensive and somebody has to pay for them.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History ... o%20Canada.

[on_one_wheel]

What's next? Trump sends us an invoice for the Battle of the Coral Sea in 1942?

In 2006, the UK paid off the WW2 debt to the USA.
Wars are expensive and somebody has to pay for them.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History ... o%20Canada.

Somewhere around $250 billion Euros has been thrown at Ukraine to date.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/130 ... o-ukraine/

[alexjones]

Yeah Germany paid off its war debt from WW1 in 2010. The peace treaty was signed in 1919.

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Internationa ... d=11755920

[Oldbloke]

AU lend lease

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/world- ... ogram.html

[bigrich]

What's next? Trump sends us an invoice for the Battle of the Coral Sea in 1942?

In 2006, the UK paid off the WW2 debt to the USA.
Wars are expensive and somebody has to pay for them.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History ... o%20Canada.

and people don't remember the US exploited the hell out of the UK with the lend lease agreement . the UK was on the ropes and the US charged top dollar for military equipment . wonder if the russians have paid off their lend lease debt . the US has profited very well out of war and military aid . still does .....

[Billo]

The people who support Ukraine the most never donate their own money or their sons/grandsons to fight. Its always someone else's money and kin they expect to do the bidding. The American tax payers want their money back. Thats what the mineral deal is all about.

Let's ignore the fact that China controls most of the rate earth minerals and their supply, it's in America's best interests to secure long term deals in Ukraine. This has nothing to do with taxpayers as they have always been fleeced.

CLearing out old tech munition and replacing with next generation gear is a big win for the US manufacturers.