How to make a hunting rifle more accurate

[MG5150]

I recently watched a youtube video on how to make your hunting rifle more accurate...

The fella speaking mentioned three things:

1) adjust your trigger to be as light as possible
2) use bipods
3) get a supressor

Given that we can't use suppressors is a muzzle break a substitute for this?

Putting it back to you guys, are there any other things we can do make rifles more accurate?

Has anyone got experience using Timny triggers? I'm looking at getting one for my Browning X Bolt 30-06

Here is the original video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuRvD73hlp4

[Oldbloke]

1) adjust your trigger to be as light as possible.
Yes, but not too light!


2) use bipods.
This is just assisting aim.


Start reloading.

In some cases floating the barrel helps,

or bedding the stock.

Quality scope.

[geoff]

If you are shooting a factory rifle with a factory barrel (especially if it's a pencil thin sporter/hunting profile barrel) then the first thing to adjust is probably your expectations

The reality is that most guns and especially most shooters simply are not "Sub MOA all day long" like the internet would have you believe.

Drop the trigger weight to something sensible and safe, bed and float the stock, invest good money in good glass (can't hit it if you can't see it) and find a load that works reliably.

[MG5150]

1) adjust your trigger to be as light as possible.
Yes, but not too light!


2) use bipods.
This is just assisting aim.


Start reloading.

In some cases floating the barrel helps,

Thanks for the feedback!

What counts as 'too light?'

what specifically do you do with reloading that makes it better or more accurate?

Apparently, my rifle already has a floating barrel.

[MG5150]

The reality is that most guns and especially most shooters simply are not "Sub MOA all day long" like the internet would have you believe.

Drop the trigger weight to something sensible and safe, bed and float the stock, invest good money in good glass (can't hit it if you can't see it) and find a load that works reliably.

Thanks for your input.

What is sensible and safe when it comes to trigger weight?

Interesting about the sub MOA all day long - is that dependant on the temperature and other conditions?

Here is a target with 5 shots with Remington Core Lokt 180g and 3 shots with Federal 180g at 100m which appear to be right on the 1 MOA mark (1 shot out with the Remington')

[geoff]

Three shots just isn't enough information to reliably tell you what your rifle or your load is doing. You cannot determine if that's a true reflection of how it performs or if you just got lucky. This goes on for a little while, and contains some discussion that is reasonably technical on statistics etc, but should be mandatory learning for anyone wanting to discuss accuracy and precision:

https://youtu.be/QwumAGRmz2I?si=TjMFJ-Qz4c_vWtCo

The short version: go do some 10 or 15 shot groups and then come back to us, you just don't know how accurate it is now. A 3 shot group can indicate to you that a given is load is not going to be sufficiently precise (because it'll never improve with more shots) but cannot reliably indicate that a load is precise.

[animalpest]

I recently watched a youtube video on how to make your hunting rifle more accurate...

The fella speaking mentioned three things:

1) adjust your trigger to be as light as possible
2) use bipods
3) get a supressor

Given that we can't use suppressors is a muzzle break a substitute for this?

Putting it back to you guys, are there any other things we can do make rifles more accurate?

Has anyone got experience using Timny triggers? I'm looking at getting one for my Browning X Bolt 30-06

Here is the original video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuRvD73hlp4

These are purely things that may make you shoot better, but doesn't improve your rifles accuracy.

Good glass, bedded, adjust trigger and a load it likes

[Oldbloke]

"What counts as 'too light?'"
How long is a piece of string.

All my rifles are used hunting. All are abt 2.8lbs. Happy with that.

IMO 2lb - 3lb for hunting. Target a lot lower.

Geoff is right about groups and statistics,,,but, for hunting IMO if you can reliably put 3 shots into 35mm it's plenty good enough. (If on target) But that depends on how far you shooting and at what game size? 100 or 300yards?

Reloading is probably the most reliable way of improving accuracy. More experience may not agree.

[Oldbloke]

I think we need this.

Pop Corn.jpg (58.56 KiB) Viewed 630 times

[womble]

1) adjust your trigger to be as light as possible.
Yes, but not too light!


2) use bipods.
This is just assisting aim.


Start reloading.

In some cases floating the barrel helps,

Thanks for the feedback!

What counts as 'too light?'

what specifically do you do with reloading that makes it better or more accurate?

Apparently, my rifle already has a floating barrel.

Too light counts as dangerous.

[MG5150]

Too light counts as dangerous.

'dangerous' isn't something I can quantify or measure with my limited experience

[Oldbloke]

I guess I'm saying for hunting is,,,under 2lb is probably getting risky/dangerous. YMMV.

[MG5150]

Three shots just isn't enough information to reliably tell you what your rifle or your load is doing. You cannot determine if that's a true reflection of how it performs or if you just got lucky. This goes on for a little while, and contains some discussion that is reasonably technical on statistics etc, but should be mandatory learning for anyone wanting to discuss accuracy and precision:

https://youtu.be/QwumAGRmz2I?si=TjMFJ-Qz4c_vWtCo

The short version: go do some 10 or 15 shot groups and then come back to us, you just don't know how accurate it is now. A 3 shot group can indicate to you that a given is load is not going to be sufficiently precise (because it'll never improve with more shots) but cannot reliably indicate that a load is precise.

thanks for such a detailed response. This was from an ammo grouping test when I was trying to figure out what it likes. I think I settled on the Remington 150g which was done on a separate target in the end.

How long do you recommend waiting between shots for the barrel to cool

Do you fire 3-5 shots then wait, or do you fire, wait, fire wait, fire wait...?

[womble]

Catastrophic range. Keep clear. 3km exclusion zone.

[MG5150]

Thank you Oldbloke and Animalpest - I've googled what bedding a rifle means and am looking more into it.

My scope came loose over the weekend so I've got to re-zero. I might book into a gun smith to get the trigger adjusted and rifle bedded before I re-zero

[Oldbloke]

Thank you Oldbloke and Animalpest - I've googled what bedding a rifle means and am looking more into it.

My scope came loose over the weekend so I've got to re-zero. I might book into a gun smith to get the trigger adjusted and rifle bedded before I re-zero

Often triggers are easy to adjust by the lay person. Adj a screw or change a spring. All mine are adjustable.


Bedding is also often done at home.Far from difficult. But no personal experience.

[Wapiti]

You can screw up a rifles consistency i.e. "accuracy " faster with an incorrect bedding job than if you'd left it alone.

Some rifle action designs, and stock construction they sit in are completely unnecessary to touch. Others sit in flexible, soft inconsistent compromises.

People will know that I'm all for doing it myself. If someone else can do it, so can you. But you need the knowledge, the right gear, and the right techniques.
Do a heap of research first as to what matters in a bedding job, why if anything it will actually change anything, and understand what the process is trying to achieve. Before you can make something better, you need to identify why it isn't achieving its best before you even start.

And whatever you do, filter what advice you choose to listen to. If you get advice from someone who admits to never have done it successfully themselves, well, go elsewhere.

And on trigger pull, it is the design of the trigger itself that dictates at what pull weight it becomes dangerous, not the number itself. Another half accurate statement.

I've seen plenty of very crack shots that have a rifle next to them every day handle standard 5lb triggers like nothing. And then there are the arguments raging about some ideal number from the opposite of that expectation.

The most accurate answer above I've seen is the best yet, that's adjusting your expectations. Most of these expectations are bulls**t.
And from the pics and info you've put up with bog-standard factory ammo, you've bought well.

[Wm.Traynor]

I cannot speak for modern 21st., century triggers but beware of aftermarket triggers with an alloy housing. In a 308 of mine, the steel securing pins hammered in to the alloy under recoil. This played havoc with the adjustment of that otherwise, very good trigger.

[GQshayne]

Well MG, before I gave you any tips I would want to know what you hunting you are doing, and what firearm you have. If you are like me, and hunting means kicking pigs out from under your feet in the thick stuff (my last one was about 3m away), then a light trigger for us is different to a long range rabbit busting varmint rifle. And a Model 94 Winchester trigger is a bit different to a Sako bolt action trigger. Likewise a 2" group at 100m is not bad for one, and not good for the other!

Hunting accuracy requires you to be able to effect clean kills on your target. In my experience, the shooter is never as good in the field as the rifle is. So your rifle may shoot MOA,but can you do this offhand???? No way I can, and no time for a bipod, and I would not want to carry one anyway. Best thing for accuracy for me is practice. Practice. And practice relevant ot the field, rather than punching holes in paper.

Anyway, if you tell us what you are up to that would help.

[fussy]

Bipod. Use when appropriate.
Sling. Ditto.
Practise; esp. different conditions, range, wind, lighting, and clothing*.

*Do you sight in with a Tshirt at the range, then wear 15 layers in the snow? Might (will) affect your cheek/stock position.
Sitting at range bench vs standing, sitting, kneeling, prone in the field are different.

[MG5150]

Well MG, before I gave you any tips I would want to know what you hunting you are doing, and what firearm you have. If you are like me, and hunting means kicking pigs out from under your feet in the thick stuff (my last one was about 3m away), then a light trigger for us is different to a long range rabbit busting varmint rifle. And a Model 94 Winchester trigger is a bit different to a Sako bolt action trigger. Likewise a 2" group at 100m is not bad for one, and not good for the other!

Hunting accuracy requires you to be able to effect clean kills on your target. In my experience, the shooter is never as good in the field as the rifle is. So your rifle may shoot MOA,but can you do this offhand???? No way I can, and no time for a bipod, and I would not want to carry one anyway. Best thing for accuracy for me is practice. Practice. And practice relevant ot the field, rather than punching holes in paper.

Anyway, if you tell us what you are up to that would help.

Hey Mate

I use a Browning X bolt in 30-06 for stalking deer (mainly Sambar). Almost all of my deer have been shot within 20-80m so far. The bush is pretty thick and there are a few valleys where I could glass up an animal and try a 300m-400m shot but I havn't had the patience to try that sort of hunting yet.

I've taken 14 deer for 15 shots with one I think I hit but couldn't recover. A couple of good hits where they dropped on the spot, and a few where they ran 100m before dropping due to being gut shot a little further back than I was aiming. Most of the shots were me standing with a few where I dropped to kneel.

[MG5150]

You can screw up a rifles consistency i.e. "accuracy " faster with an incorrect bedding job than if you'd left it alone.

Some rifle action designs, and stock construction they sit in are completely unnecessary to touch. Others sit in flexible, soft inconsistent compromises.

People will know that I'm all for doing it myself. If someone else can do it, so can you. But you need the knowledge, the right gear, and the right techniques.
Do a heap of research first as to what matters in a bedding job, why if anything it will actually change anything, and understand what the process is trying to achieve. Before you can make something better, you need to identify why it isn't achieving its best before you even start.

And whatever you do, filter what advice you choose to listen to. If you get advice from someone who admits to never have done it successfully themselves, well, go elsewhere.

And on trigger pull, it is the design of the trigger itself that dictates at what pull weight it becomes dangerous, not the number itself. Another half accurate statement.

I've seen plenty of very crack shots that have a rifle next to them every day handle standard 5lb triggers like nothing. And then there are the arguments raging about some ideal number from the opposite of that expectation.

The most accurate answer above I've seen is the best yet, that's adjusting your expectations. Most of these expectations are bulls**t.
And from the pics and info you've put up with bog-standard factory ammo, you've bought well.

Adjusting expectations is indeed great advice and I appreciate your additional input.

I think time spent practicing is going to be the biggest pay off. I could go down lots of gear and modification rabbit holes but at the end of the day, the buck stops with me and my skill level.

Prior to posting those more recent groupings I had a few weeks in a row of bad shooting. I was flinching and anticipating the shot which caused me to pull it to the right. I used double hearing protection and worked on my breathing to eliminate the flinch and that made a big difference.

How much of a step up does reloading make with the rounds? What makes them 'bog-awful'? (not being a smartass I am relativly green and want to learn)

[Die Judicii]

I agree whole heartedly with Wapiti as in,,, do NOT take advice from some-one who states they have no experience in the subject at hand.

Secondly I would advise (based on the OPs information provided) not to worry about lightening the trigger until more practical field experience is gained.
Once gained, then look at lightening the tigger.
After substancial field experienc is under the collar you will then know instinctively what is light,, or too light.

ie: taking an otherwise unexpected shot,,,, if you trigger the shot before your actually on target. (don't laugh because it happens)

As one member above posted, re 3 rnds into 35 mm is ok, "depending on what game size" ,,,,, is bullsh!t babble.
Seeing as you posted in "Center Fire Rifles" that group would be fine for average sized animals requiring 22/250 cal or above.
Even down so far as a rabbit if need be.
Lets face facts,,,, a rabbits head is bigger than 35mm

For some-one with supposedly age and experience prowess,,, to preach or infer that the possibility of such a grouping may not be good enough
"depending on what game size" indicates to me that they belong in the lounge room armchair.

Again,, I would say that for general hunting without a huge amount of experience (as per your posts) with a centerfire rifle,, your doing pretty well to start with.
Not so maybe, if benchrest target shooting ,, (of which I cannot claim any expertise whatsoever) ,,,,, but your off with a good start.

[Die Judicii]

You can screw up a rifles consistency i.e. "accuracy " faster with an incorrect bedding job than if you'd left it alone.

Some rifle action designs, and stock construction they sit in are completely unnecessary to touch. Others sit in flexible, soft inconsistent compromises.

People will know that I'm all for doing it myself. If someone else can do it, so can you. But you need the knowledge, the right gear, and the right techniques.
Do a heap of research first as to what matters in a bedding job, why if anything it will actually change anything, and understand what the process is trying to achieve. Before you can make something better, you need to identify why it isn't achieving its best before you even start.

And whatever you do, filter what advice you choose to listen to. If you get advice from someone who admits to never have done it successfully themselves, well, go elsewhere.

And on trigger pull, it is the design of the trigger itself that dictates at what pull weight it becomes dangerous, not the number itself. Another half accurate statement.

I've seen plenty of very crack shots that have a rifle next to them every day handle standard 5lb triggers like nothing. And then there are the arguments raging about some ideal number from the opposite of that expectation.

The most accurate answer above I've seen is the best yet, that's adjusting your expectations. Most of these expectations are bulls**t.
And from the pics and info you've put up with bog-standard factory ammo, you've bought well.

Adjusting expectations is indeed great advice and I appreciate your additional input.

I think time spent practicing is going to be the biggest pay off. I could go down lots of gear and modification rabbit holes but at the end of the day, the buck stops with me and my skill level.

Prior to posting those more recent groupings I had a few weeks in a row of bad shooting. I was flinching and anticipating the shot which caused me to pull it to the right. I used double hearing protection and worked on my breathing to eliminate the flinch and that made a big difference.

How much of a step up does reloading make with the rounds? What makes them 'bog-awful'? (not being a smartass I am relativly green and want to learn)

First up,,, I do not and have never got into reloading.
The closest I've come to that is getting a mate who's done it for many years,, and who developed a load suited specifically for one of my rifles.

I liken it to buying a car.

Do you go out and buy a mass produced car that is made on the basis of average driver sizes,, needs,, finance,, and climate ?
Or,
Do you buy the likes of a Ferrari that is purpose built,, and fitted to your own personal proportions ?

Reloading is the Ferrari of ammunition.

[Oldbloke]

I agree whole heartedly with Wapiti as in,,, do NOT take advice from some-one who states they have no experience in the subject at hand.

Secondly I would advise (based on the OPs information provided) not to worry about lightening the trigger until more practical field experience is gained.
Once gained, then look at lightening the tigger.
After substancial field experienc is under the collar you will then know instinctively what is light,, or too light.

ie: taking an otherwise unexpected shot,,,, if you trigger the shot before your actually on target. (don't laugh because it happens)

As one member above posted, re 3 rnds into 35 mm is ok, "depending on what game size" ,,,,, is bullsh!t babble.
Seeing as you posted in "Center Fire Rifles" that group would be fine for average sized animals requiring 22/250 cal or above.
Even down so far as a rabbit if need be.
Lets face facts,,,, a rabbits head is bigger than 35mm

For some-one with supposedly age and experience prowess,,, to preach or infer that the possibility of such a grouping may not be good enough
"depending on what game size" indicates to me that they belong in the lounge room armchair.

Again,, I would say that for general hunting without a huge amount of experience (as per your posts) with a centerfire rifle,, your doing pretty well to start with.
Not so maybe, if benchrest target shooting ,, (of which I cannot claim any expertise whatsoever) ,,,,, but your off with a good start.

DJ, pull your head in. If your going to "quote" do it accurately.

I said:

", for hunting IMO if you can reliably put 3 shots into 35mm it's plenty good enough. (If on target) But that depends on how far you shooting and at what game size?"

Did you actually think?

He could be chasing sambar, of which about 90% are shot at under 100yards. We aren't all trying to head shoot rabbits at 300yards.

BTW, he does hunt in sambar country. And he was referring to a 30.06.

[Die Judicii]

"What counts as 'too light?'"
How long is a piece of string.

All my rifles are used hunting. All are abt 2.8lbs. Happy with that.

IMO 2lb - 3lb for hunting. Target a lot lower.

Geoff is right about groups and statistics,,,but, for hunting IMO if you can reliably put 3 shots into 35mm it's plenty good enough. (If on target) But that depends on how far you shooting and at what game size? 100 or 300yards?

Reloading is probably the most reliable way of improving accuracy. More experience may not agree.

Well mercy me,,,,, On a Sambar that would be even better (with a 35mm grouping)
So why cast dispersions on the OP by saying "depends on how far you shooting and at what game size ?"

Spend some energy and give the OP a pat on the back instead of being pedantic.

[geoff]

Lots of good points here, some great discussion. Some kinda spurious advice and getting bogged down in the weeds but I think that's obvious enough to filter out

Perhaps some key takeaways:

Expectations are important - set them accordingly.....realistically and with humility.

What is an acceptable or unacceptable level of accuracy differs depending on the purpose.

It's important to separate the capability of the shooter and the capability of the rifle system. They both work together to achieve the real world precision result. It is hard for a lot of shooters to be humble here - but always remember that the shooter is the least consistent part of the equation. Until you can confidently isolate that variable, it's hard to really tell what the rifle is or isn't doing.

If you really want to understand whether a load meets your needs, you need to understand what the rifle is actually capable of in order to make that assessment. The only way to do that is by gathering a statistically significant amount of data.

Things like bedding a stock, adjusting a trigger and reloading can be good steps to improving upon a rifle system, but are all predicated on executing them well. A poor job at any of these will make things quite a bit worse, but the upside is that it's easy to learn how to do them properly.

[Oldbloke]

"What counts as 'too light?'"
How long is a piece of string.

All my rifles are used hunting. All are abt 2.8lbs. Happy with that.

IMO 2lb - 3lb for hunting. Target a lot lower.

Geoff is right about groups and statistics,,,but, for hunting IMO if you can reliably put 3 shots into 35mm it's plenty good enough. (If on target) But that depends on how far you shooting and at what game size? 100 or 300yards?

Reloading is probably the most reliable way of improving accuracy. More experience may not agree.

Well mercy me,,,,, On a Sambar that would be even better (with a 35mm grouping)
So why cast dispersions on the OP by saying "depends on how far you shooting and at what game size ?"

Spend some energy and give the OP a pat on the back instead of being pedantic.

You need to get a life. I'm sure its better than trolling on forums.

[womble]

Would it be better to pick another caliber than 30 06 if you really want to get better groups than that ?

I’m just curious if perhaps a more modern caliber would be a better starting point.

Not knocking the 30 06, obviously it’s up to the task , but if op’s intention is to take sambar at greater ranges there would be a few calibres tempting. You’d spend more on ammo but I don’t know if that’s personally a factor.

Not necessarily huge calibres. Just 30 06 in a light weight rifle is pretty brutal. That’s a pretty challenging to start with.

[Wapiti]

"What counts as 'too light?'"
How long is a piece of string.

All my rifles are used hunting. All are abt 2.8lbs. Happy with that.

IMO 2lb - 3lb for hunting. Target a lot lower.

Geoff is right about groups and statistics,,,but, for hunting IMO if you can reliably put 3 shots into 35mm it's plenty good enough. (If on target) But that depends on how far you shooting and at what game size? 100 or 300yards?

Reloading is probably the most reliable way of improving accuracy. More experience may not agree.

Well mercy me,,,,, On a Sambar that would be even better (with a 35mm grouping)
So why cast dispersions on the OP by saying "depends on how far you shooting and at what game size ?"

Spend some energy and give the OP a pat on the back instead of being pedantic.

You need to get a life. I'm sure its better than trolling on forums.

Pull your head in mate.
You are talking to a bloke that is respected personally in a large rural area who is incredibly successful as a professional shooter. I put his opinion at the very top of the tree, in comparison to the bloke sitting in a lounge chair looking at that same tree through a window googling a response he calls his own.
You are the king of jumping in with advice from everywhere other than your own experience.
You did it - you hand out advice then admit you've never done it! Why? Because it's all self-appraisal.
Then give one opinion, then back out of it when the tide goes the other way.
You might have some others fooled, but not the people who have the experience - they see through you. Now back off.