I want to no about the 6.5 creedmoor

[wrenchman]

I see a lot of them for sale in new guns I don't own one and don't want or need one but was wondering is it the new flavor of the week or how does it stack up.
I have a 6.5x55 sweed do they match up I come here and ask because some of the other forums it just starts a argument and name calling.
most stuff I own are the old stand by like 270 or 06 or even 243

[deye243]

Everything you're sweed is but slower and because made on a short action a pain in the ass to load even my 260 beats it by quite a margin regardless of what all the so called writers talk about

[bigrich]

I see a lot of them for sale in new guns I don't own one and don't want or need one but was wondering is it the new flavor of the week or how does it stack up.
I have a 6.5x55 sweed do they match up I come here and ask because some of the other forums it just starts a argument and name calling.
most stuff I own are the old stand by like 270 or 06 or even 243

well mate, i bought a 6.5 man-bun chambered tikka . i've owned a few 6.5x55 rifles that i handloaded for . for hunting i've found the 6.5 bore does not have good energy dump/transfer on game compared to 308, or the 270 with it's extra velocity. the swede with hot handloads isn't bad , the CM being a bit slower in speed is lacking in my opinion. i went to 120 nosler BT's in my CM and performance was acceptable , 129sst's did not give good expansion on modest size pigs.
IMHO 6.5 CM is a fine target round with great ballistics for target shooting at ranges farther out than i would shoot at when hunting . the best cal for what i hunt , pigs , goats, deer is a 308 with a 150sst . works well on across the varied body weights of the game i listed . i'm either going to convert my 6.5 cm tikka to another cal (358win maybe ) or sell it . i'm not much of a 243 fan , but from what i've seen terminal performance with 95gn 6mm projectiles is better on game than the 6.5cm . i hate the shoulder on the 243 case, 6mm CM would be better i reckon . these are my opinions based on my personal experiences, swede mausers are fine milsurps , but for hunting i'd stick to your 270 or 30-06 mate . much has been made of "Scandinavian hunters use 160gn projectiles on moose..." , with good shot placement, yeah it'd do the job. but i believe 308win and 30-06 are very popular cals in those countries these days for good reason

[Wapiti]

Everything you're sweed is but slower and because made on a short action a pain in the ass to load even my 260 beats it by quite a margin regardless of what all the so called writers talk about

Yes it's quite a contrast to the magazine writers and marketing from ammo makers.

Here we go again but a neighbour down the road who bought a lifestyle block has a T3 Roughtech in 6.5CM. I seen it when he showed me his rifle collection and said how he regrets the purchase because of its disappointing performance on game, he was convinced it would be better than his 308 T3.
T3's are not my cup of tea but I would think one in 6.5x55 would be a way more convincing as an all rounder in the bush, although a bush all-rounder is not going to be a 6.5.

The only thing making it such a hit is the fast twist that allows long bullets, and the rifle range crowd.
And the desperation makers have to sell you something that they say, will suddenly solve all your skill issues.

[bigrich]

Everything you're sweed is but slower and because made on a short action a pain in the ass to load even my 260 beats it by quite a margin regardless of what all the so called writers talk about

Yes it's quite a contrast to the magazine writers and marketing from ammo makers.

Here we go again but a neighbour down the road who bought a lifestyle block has a T3 Roughtech in 6.5CM. I seen it when he showed me his rifle collection and said how he regrets the purchase because of its disappointing performance on game, he was convinced it would be better than his 308 T3.
T3's are not my cup of tea but I would think one in 6.5x55 would be a way more convincing as an all rounder in the bush, although a bush all-rounder is not going to be a 6.5.

The only thing making it such a hit is the fast twist that allows long bullets, and the rifle range crowd.
And the desperation makers have to sell you something that they say, will suddenly solve all your skill issues.

I had a t3 in 6.5 x55 very, very accurate, but it pressured up earlier than my crf model 70 and milsups, so it got sold. 308 is my go to “shoot everything “ cal now. 30-06 is overkill for the southeast corner of Queensland imho. You’re right about the marketing regarding the cm. It’s a fine target round though

[Wapiti]

If something built nice and accurate, with close tolerances, yeah it will "pressure up" earlier, with loads that are mild in higher tolerance chambers.
Broad statement maybe, but I bet the T3 had the quicker velocities/less speed spreads than a CRF 70 or a milsurp.
Cases having to expand more in big-spec or sloppy chambers, even jump longer throats often can take a couple of grains more powder to show the same pressure signs.
Think to why Weatherbys are long throated deliberately.

Again, not a fan of T3's and the cheapy single stack mags and unnecessarily long heavy actions, but they are just made to tighter dimensions. From measurements I've taken anyway. Others may have found different in their examples.

[bigrich]

If something built nice and accurate, with close tolerances, yeah it will "pressure up" earlier, with loads that are mild in higher tolerance chambers.
Broad statement maybe, but I bet the T3 had the quicker velocities/less speed spreads than a CRF 70 or a milsurp.
Cases having to expand more in big-spec or sloppy chambers, even jump longer throats often can take a couple of grains more powder to show the same pressure signs.
Think to why Weatherbys are long throated deliberately.

Again, not a fan of T3's and the cheapy single stack mags and unnecessarily long heavy actions, but they are just made to tighter dimensions. From measurements I've taken anyway. Others may have found different in their examples.

i understand your dislike of the cheap tikka mags , but mate they work well .tikkas have been the most reliable feeding and ejecting rifles i've owned . i carry 6 shot mags for pigs, and it's a lot quicker changing out a mag than trying to reload a top feed rifle . i prefer blued/walnut top feed rifles myself , but as a reliable "working rifle" there's a lot to be said for a stainless tikka. i fit good quality aftermarket "lumley" brand floorplates on my tikka's . i just can't tolerate the plastic trigger guards .i thought the early pressure was odd, couldn't get near book max data . maybe a overly tight bore ? i believe tikka/sako barrels are hammer forged, mighta been a problem with the mandrel used at the factory ? it had generous freebore , which is common with tikka and sako's .
the model 70 was a great rifle generally . it was a supergrade model 70 made in 2003 fitted with a madco barrel . but feeding was a issue . shoulda kept it and re barrelled it into 30-06 or 35 whelen . oh well, it was too pretty for a hunting rifle anyway

back on topic, 6.5cm doesn't impress me as a hunting caliber, after loading and using one . 6.5 bore have those long spear like high bc projectiles, great for long range accuracy and energy retention. but 270 with it's velocity and 308 with it's increased bore size hit harder with better projectile performance on game . 140sst's out of a 270 sako 85 i had was a good all rounder on varying game weights, 150sst in 308 work great as well

[JimTom]

I have one and I use 143gn projectiles. Kills pigs dead. No complaints here mate.

[bigrich]

I have one and I use 143gn projectiles. Kills pigs dead. No complaints here mate.

soft ELD-X's ? i never got around to trying them. i wanted lighter projectiles for flatter shooting and less hold over at 250-300 yards . 129sst performed poorly in mine . 120 bt's weren't bad .

[Wapiti]

Funny you say that about Tikka/Sako throats.
I don't have any Tikkas, engineering-wise the points I made above just bug me too much, but I do have half a dozen Sakos and they are all easy to find the rifling. 10 to 20 thou off easy with a full calibre in the neck on even the shortest bullets.

Nah, awful plastic mags made from old, recycled ice-cream buckets. With some black concrete-colour powder mixed in.

[zbenga]

been shooting a 6.5 man bun for a while and I have an opinion after reloading more than 1 thousand rounds for it (LA105)

it's nice to shoot compared to a .308, with a brake (the stock on LA105) it's got less recoil than a .243 plastic tikka
it's incredibly accurate, .4 MOA with the brake, .3 MOA without
it's available everywhere
it's easy to tune a load to, there are only two type of chambers believe it or not, they either have a short or long free bore, Lithgow have a short free bore so you need to use projectile with a small bearing surface and you gain barrel life, tikka is medium so you struggle with really heavy high BC projectiles, think 144 Bergers and no chance of getting those projectiles to play in a Lithgow
It's misunderstood a most think "high bc bullets, ELDX and Berger target" then realise it's not killing animals the same way as a .308.... at 150m no pig will take more than 20 steps with a 6.5 139 grains scenar travelling at 2600-2700 fps if shot in the vitals, use the right projectile for the job, target? ELDX, Berger 140 etc., hunting? Scenar in 139 is fantastic also as accurate as the ELDX is not better, really rough s**t to go through? Berger 130 tactical OTM. You have so many choices with the 6.5 that sometimes you find a projectile and settle on it and think it can do it all

the biggest advantage over a .308? at 300 meters you can pick which eye of a pig you wanna hit
see below some load development for it, with 2209 the 130 OTM's are one hole, I'm just trying to only use one powder, both targets the elevation was spot on, it opened up due to wind

IMG_0357 (1).jpeg (678.24 KiB) Viewed 7734 times

for the amount of recoil, power down range it's an awesome cartridge, the .243 is right up there but one you reload you quickly realise the .243 case with annealing will not last anywhere near as long as the creed and both are barrel burners, so if you shoot a lot and reload the 6.5 cm is great, if you think. you need the Swede in 6.5 then I'm sorry but moving to a 7mm is probably smarter than:)

<suit flame on>

[bigrich]

well, i thought there'd be a few 6.5 advocates that might not agree with me horses for courses i guess . most of my hunting is done from 15 yards (yes i've had pigs pop up under my feet at times , can't say how much i value a good low powered leupold scope ) out to ranges of 200 yards for goats/deer and such . i was rapt up in the 6.5 ballistic "superiority" years ago . but in the field i've found the performance disappointing at times .i've owned/loaded/hunted with a lot of different cals and rifles over the years, got a PTA pile that numbers about 60 , and that doesn't include "like for likes" either .
being a ex car guy i really get into the technical side of things with ballistics and projectile performance on game . so i've used a few 6.5x55's , 243, 6.5cm, 7-08, 308, 30-06 , 358win and 9.3x62 . probably forgot a couple , used 222 , 223 and 250 savage for pest control as well . 250 savage with fast 85bt's worked better on most game than the 6.5cm as well there's a reason 303-25 was popular back in the day as the 30' 25 and savage are ballistic twins for the most part, a 85gn 25cal projectile going over 3000fps works pretty good . 6.5 long projectiles generally over penetrate in my experience with poor expansion compared to other cals. doesn't mean you won't kill stuff, but i've had more runners with that cal than anything else

out of those i've used, the one cal that is accurate , moderate recoil ,good projectile performance across a wide range of game weights in my part of the country is the boring old 308 . my current 308 is a FN 98 commercial action originally put together by bennie musgrave in south africa in 1967 . so says the writing inside the original recoil pad . this rifle has shot clover leaf's at 100 with 150 game kings for three shots . 3 shot groups are acceptable to me as after 3 shots everything has buggered off unless your far west on a mob of oinkers . the musgrave is going to be rebarreled in 7x57 when the smith gets his barrel , and be replaced as a working rifle by a stainless 308 tikka in a B&C stock that i already have .
my uses and experience are different to others , if your happy with a 6.5cm that's great . but in my first hand experience a 308 works better for me . the cm is a better target/comp round, no argument there .

anyway, enough of my early morning ramblings , look forward to your responses

[JimTom]

I have one and I use 143gn projectiles. Kills pigs dead. No complaints here mate.

soft ELD-X's ? i never got around to trying them. i wanted lighter projectiles for flatter shooting and less hold over at 250-300 yards . 129sst performed poorly in mine . 120 bt's weren't bad .

Yes mate, the 143 ELD X. They are super accurate out of my rifle and seem to be quite effective on pigs of all sizes.

[Wapiti]

the biggest advantage over a .308? at 300 meters you can pick which eye of a pig you wanna hit
see below some load development for it, with 2209 the 130 OTM's are one hole, I'm just trying to only use one powder, both targets the elevation was spot on, it opened up due to wind

Sorry mate, you blew it there. With me anyway.

"It's misunderstood a most think "high bc bullets, ELDX and Berger target" then realise it's not killing animals the same way as a .308.... at 150m no pig will take more than 20 steps with a 6.5 139 grains scenar travelling at 2600-2700 fps if shot in the vitals, use the right projectile for the job, target? ELDX, Berger 140 etc., hunting? Scenar in 139 is fantastic also as accurate as the ELDX is not better, really rough s**t to go through?"

You won't be accompanying me or any mature hunter I know that's for sure. Making the statement that a High BC target bullet can kill is correct, but it is the juvenile person that thinks that any projectile is suitable because it kills, no matter how it does it and how long the animal suffers. It shows a lack of respect for animals and that is unacceptable.
And any of the cartridges mentioned in a good rifle shooting well after pains of load development can shoot like you mention. On paper. Paper doesn't move, breath, feel pain or fear.
The 6.5 is a great target cartridge no issue, is mild to shoot so average guys can shoot it very well and is ecomonical compared to many. Unfortunately, it's human nature for many to spin anything they can and forget actual real-world experience of hunters and cartridges. All to justify their purchase. Cars, rifle brands, cartridges, to some they make up for all faults elsewhere.

The quite slow speed in the 6.5 Creedmoor make it easy to shoot for the novice, but those long heavy bullets target shooters obsess about need to hit something very solid to start expanding, if that, and be well matched to this velocity. In a real hunters reloading bench, he would pick the lighter hunting projectiles and match them to the game properly.

Bigrich's descriptions of his experience say it all for me and his input is a huge bonus in this discussion.
For me, from hunting alongside friends who've come out here, the terminal results on animals comparing this target cartridge to others mentioned is a marked difference. The 308 is a much more flexible and effective cartridge that the 6.5 paper puncher.

[Wapiti]

well, i thought there'd be a few 6.5 advocates that might not agree with me horses for courses i guess . most of my hunting is done from 15 yards (yes i've had pigs pop up under my feet at times , can't say how much i value a good low powered leupold scope ) out to ranges of 200 yards for goats/deer and such . i was rapt up in the 6.5 ballistic "superiority" years ago . but in the field i've found the performance disappointing at times .i've owned/loaded/hunted with a lot of different cals and rifles over the years, got a PTA pile that numbers about 60 , and that doesn't include "like for likes" either .
being a ex car guy i really get into the technical side of things with ballistics and projectile performance on game . so i've used a few 6.5x55's , 243, 6.5cm, 7-08, 308, 30-06 , 358win and 9.3x62 . probably forgot a couple , used 222 , 223 and 250 savage for pest control as well . 250 savage with fast 85bt's worked better on most game than the 6.5cm as well there's a reason 303-25 was popular back in the day as the 30' 25 and savage are ballistic twins for the most part, a 85gn 25cal projectile going over 3000fps works pretty good . 6.5 long projectiles generally over penetrate in my experience with poor expansion compared to other cals. doesn't mean you won't kill stuff, but i've had more runners with that cal than anything else

out of those i've used, the one cal that is accurate , moderate recoil ,good projectile performance across a wide range of game weights in my part of the country is the boring old 308 . my current 308 is a FN 98 commercial action originally put together by bennie musgrave in south africa in 1967 . so says the writing inside the original recoil pad . this rifle has shot clover leaf's at 100 with 150 game kings for three shots . 3 shot groups are acceptable to me as after 3 shots everything has buggered off unless your far west on a mob of oinkers . the musgrave is going to be rebarreled in 7x57 when the smith gets his barrel , and be replaced as a working rifle by a stainless 308 tikka in a B&C stock that i already have .
my uses and experience are different to others , if your happy with a 6.5cm that's great . but in my first hand experience a 308 works better for me . the cm is a better target/comp round, no argument there .

anyway, enough of my early morning ramblings , look forward to your responses

Mate your detailed input is really appreciated.
There aren't many on this or any other forum that spend the time to put all that info and knowledge together and share it. Your real-world experience and experimentation make for a very credible read.

I carry a rifle around every day and you soon pick the cartridges and types that give you a clean instant result in ever-varying conditions. Having tradie mates from the city who love a trip out to test their stuff means we get to prove and disprove so much marketing BS and I get to try stuff I wouldn't normally find to my liking.

To people with experience, a 200m shot in the bush or even paddock is a long one to take, and personally I struggle to hold consistently in the field past 250m, so I don't. Believe me, if it solved a problem immediately that's been causing me grief or lost income this is priority. Try laser ranging every opportunity for those who tend to exaggerate things. We are not on a benchrest, behind a bipod and rear bag, equipped with the latest rendition of the best paper puncher.
The animals are aware of us usually, moving and stopping, and are certainly not paper targets that just rock a bit in the breeze. That we watch with our huge, overpowered scope.

The other thing, and I can't explain it other than the fact that I breed quite a few different animals from stud cattle to game animals, is animal welfare. An animals suffering is unacceptable and must be the top of one's list whether it's struggling to keep animals alive and safe during droughts, floods, sickness and predation.
So when you come to have to kill them, whether it be a feral animal or game animal, for meat or just to manage excess animals, this has to be done instantly and without stress. I find people who don't have the same priorities quite sick and perverted.

[bigrich]

well, i thought there'd be a few 6.5 advocates that might not agree with me horses for courses i guess . most of my hunting is done from 15 yards (yes i've had pigs pop up under my feet at times , can't say how much i value a good low powered leupold scope ) out to ranges of 200 yards for goats/deer and such . i was rapt up in the 6.5 ballistic "superiority" years ago . but in the field i've found the performance disappointing at times .i've owned/loaded/hunted with a lot of different cals and rifles over the years, got a PTA pile that numbers about 60 , and that doesn't include "like for likes" either .
being a ex car guy i really get into the technical side of things with ballistics and projectile performance on game . so i've used a few 6.5x55's , 243, 6.5cm, 7-08, 308, 30-06 , 358win and 9.3x62 . probably forgot a couple , used 222 , 223 and 250 savage for pest control as well . 250 savage with fast 85bt's worked better on most game than the 6.5cm as well there's a reason 303-25 was popular back in the day as the 30' 25 and savage are ballistic twins for the most part, a 85gn 25cal projectile going over 3000fps works pretty good . 6.5 long projectiles generally over penetrate in my experience with poor expansion compared to other cals. doesn't mean you won't kill stuff, but i've had more runners with that cal than anything else

out of those i've used, the one cal that is accurate , moderate recoil ,good projectile performance across a wide range of game weights in my part of the country is the boring old 308 . my current 308 is a FN 98 commercial action originally put together by bennie musgrave in south africa in 1967 . so says the writing inside the original recoil pad . this rifle has shot clover leaf's at 100 with 150 game kings for three shots . 3 shot groups are acceptable to me as after 3 shots everything has buggered off unless your far west on a mob of oinkers . the musgrave is going to be rebarreled in 7x57 when the smith gets his barrel , and be replaced as a working rifle by a stainless 308 tikka in a B&C stock that i already have .
my uses and experience are different to others , if your happy with a 6.5cm that's great . but in my first hand experience a 308 works better for me . the cm is a better target/comp round, no argument there .

anyway, enough of my early morning ramblings , look forward to your responses

Mate your detailed input is really appreciated.
There aren't many on this or any other forum that spend the time to put all that info and knowledge together and share it. Your real-world experience and experimentation make for a very credible read.

I carry a rifle around every day and you soon pick the cartridges and types that give you a clean instant result in ever-varying conditions. Having tradie mates from the city who love a trip out to test their stuff means we get to prove and disprove so much marketing BS and I get to try stuff I wouldn't normally find to my liking.

To people with experience, a 200m shot in the bush or even paddock is a long one to take, and personally I struggle to hold consistently in the field past 250m, so I don't. Believe me, if it solved a problem immediately that's been causing me grief or lost income this is priority. Try laser ranging every opportunity for those who tend to exaggerate things. We are not on a benchrest, behind a bipod and rear bag, equipped with the latest rendition of the best paper puncher.
The animals are aware of us usually, moving and stopping, and are certainly not paper targets that just rock a bit in the breeze. That we watch with our huge, overpowered scope.

The other thing, and I can't explain it other than the fact that I breed quite a few different animals from stud cattle to game animals, is animal welfare. An animals suffering is unacceptable and must be the top of one's list whether it's struggling to keep animals alive and safe during droughts, floods, sickness and predation.
So when you come to have to kill them, whether it be a feral animal or game animal, for meat or just to manage excess animals, this has to be done instantly and without stress. I find people who don't have the same priorities quite sick and perverted.

no worries mate . glad your back , didn't see you on here for a while . your own views and experiences that you post are valued by me cause your a fella who lives and works out bush , and like most in that situation your straight talking and seemingly very practical. i'm with you on animal welfare , firearms/calibers for the most emphatic clean kills are my goal . not to rag on ole mate, but putting a 6.5 projectile through a pigs eye at 300 is a extremely rare situation. i've stalked into the most likely spots for pigs and deer with nothing to be seen most times, only to have them run out in front of the toyota when i'm heading back to camp , jumping out and using the toyota or a tree to steady my shot . no time for adjusting scopes or setting up with a bipod . average pig hunting range for me is spitting distance to 100 yards . very occasionally i'll spot a cunning big solitary boar making his getaway at distance. they don't get to be big and old by being stupid do they mate .
i mentioned 358win in my list of cals i've had, and found my particular rebarreled model 70 xtr to be extremely accurate with exceptional terminal performance with 225 game kings on large pigs . the energy dump has to be seen to be appreciated . on paper the energy levels don't look exiting, but in the field, WOW. i always wanted to try 225gn round nose woodleighs but never got round to it . my 358 also shot hornady 180gn xtp projectiles around a inch and a quarter at 100 , at quite a few FPS faster than lever/pistol speeds ,they were devastating on game under 40kg . it's a interesting cal 358win , 35 whelen is even better i presume but i would consider it overkill on game in our part of the country . 358is a good thing out to 180-200 yards, after that speed and terminal performance taper off . i might have to build another just as a interesting thing to play with. but i'd probably be better served putting the money into a thermal . cheers mate

[wrenchman]

i must say thank you every one for giving me there thoughts and not letting it turn into name calling and insults

[bigrich]

i must say thank you every one for giving me there thoughts and not letting it turn into name calling and insults

carrying on like children has no benefit in my personal view . the 6.5CM isn't for everyone's style of shooting . but so are other calibers . 30-30 does nothing for me, but lots of fellas like it . the 6.5CM has been hyped up a lot i think , which is why some call out it's deficiencies. and why some get terribly offended cause their rapt in it's positive abilities that suit their own personal uses . horses for courses

[Billo]

i must say thank you every one for giving me there thoughts and not letting it turn into name calling and insults

carrying on like children has no benefit in my personal view . the 6.5CM isn't for everyone's style of shooting . but so are other calibers . 30-30 does nothing for me, but lots of fellas like it . the 6.5CM has been hyped up a lot i think , which is why some call out it's deficiencies. and why some get terribly offended cause their rapt in it's positive abilities that suit their own personal uses . horses for courses

Yes the hype is real, lots of hype, sure the CM has its place just makes sure you use plenty of holdover with its trajectory more like the 6.5 Jap or 6.5 Greek

Ive lost count of the times CM owners tell me how close it is to the PRC

[Fester]

My Swede and Creed are pretty much the same going about 2,700fps or a bit more, shooting 140gr pills.
Both were load developed up to pressure signs and backed off.

The Swede is a light Tikka with a few inches less and the Creed is a Howa varmint with 24"

They are for very different purposes, so the projies are also a very different design.
One has to kill deer, generally from about 120 to 220 yds, the other just hits steel at 500m

The Creedmoor was much easier to load for and shot lights out accuracy out of the box.
The Swede could shoot clovers with 120gr A-maxes but took a lot of work getting 140s shooting about 3/4" groups at best.
I knew it COULD shoot them as Federal Powershoks shot pretty well, and I ended up using 2213sc.

Deer often run off, but always seem dead within 30-40m and I think it would be the same with most cals going for double lung shots and not taking out the spine or neck.
My deer bullets are not the high BC, long, thin jacketed target pills that I shoot in the Man-bun, quite the opposite, in fact.
Lead soft-points with no boat tails, Woodleighs and Hotcores.

I heart shot a small button buck at about 100 and it went nowhere apart from a sideways mid air cartwheel.
Smaller animal, perfect range, heart vers lungs, who knows.

I love the 6.5 cals and wouldn't need any bigger unless I was hunting Samba stags or other big animals.

Why shoot a 300WM when a Creedmoor is so much cheaper for long-range shooting and can see hits at 500 without muzzle breaks or a 20lb rifle, just the normal practice training.

[zbenga]

the biggest advantage over a .308? at 300 meters you can pick which eye of a pig you wanna hit
see below some load development for it, with 2209 the 130 OTM's are one hole, I'm just trying to only use one powder, both targets the elevation was spot on, it opened up due to wind

Sorry mate, you blew it there. With me anyway.

"It's misunderstood a most think "high bc bullets, ELDX and Berger target" then realise it's not killing animals the same way as a .308.... at 150m no pig will take more than 20 steps with a 6.5 139 grains scenar travelling at 2600-2700 fps if shot in the vitals, use the right projectile for the job, target? ELDX, Berger 140 etc., hunting? Scenar in 139 is fantastic also as accurate as the ELDX is not better, really rough s**t to go through?"

You won't be accompanying me or any mature hunter I know that's for sure. Making the statement that a High BC target bullet can kill is correct, but it is the juvenile person that thinks that any projectile is suitable because it kills, no matter how it does it and how long the animal suffers. It shows a lack of respect for animals and that is unacceptable.
And any of the cartridges mentioned in a good rifle shooting well after pains of load development can shoot like you mention. On paper. Paper doesn't move, breath, feel pain or fear.
The 6.5 is a great target cartridge no issue, is mild to shoot so average guys can shoot it very well and is ecomonical compared to many. Unfortunately, it's human nature for many to spin anything they can and forget actual real-world experience of hunters and cartridges. All to justify their purchase. Cars, rifle brands, cartridges, to some they make up for all faults elsewhere.

The quite slow speed in the 6.5 Creedmoor make it easy to shoot for the novice, but those long heavy bullets target shooters obsess about need to hit something very solid to start expanding, if that, and be well matched to this velocity. In a real hunters reloading bench, he would pick the lighter hunting projectiles and match them to the game properly.

Bigrich's descriptions of his experience say it all for me and his input is a huge bonus in this discussion.
For me, from hunting alongside friends who've come out here, the terminal results on animals comparing this target cartridge to others mentioned is a marked difference. The 308 is a much more flexible and effective cartridge that the 6.5 paper puncher.

Don't disagree with you that the .308 is an excellent cartridge but in my opinion if I have to choose which one I use at 200m on a pig, I'll take the 6.5. At 100m and under I love my 45-70 and would not part with it for a .308.

Because of the 45-70 I tend to not see the benefit of the .308 at 100m or under, past that I love the 6.5 cm and past 200m I would probably not take the shot and try and get closer.

For the hunting we do in australia if you want a rifle tat will take anything down in the southern states the .308 is that round, would not trust it with a water buffalo or large scrub bulls thou

As I said before, generally most projectiles for the 6.5 are gathered towards target shooting hence the ever higher BC but I have found the Scenar's to be good for both hunting and target

the funny thing is that if you want target shooting only some of the 6mm make the 6.5cm feel like a cannon! with so many new cartridges coming I'd say they're trying to constantly make you spend money and give yo infinite options for arguing which is better

[bigrich]

the biggest advantage over a .308? at 300 meters you can pick which eye of a pig you wanna hit
see below some load development for it, with 2209 the 130 OTM's are one hole, I'm just trying to only use one powder, both targets the elevation was spot on, it opened up due to wind

Sorry mate, you blew it there. With me anyway.

"It's misunderstood a most think "high bc bullets, ELDX and Berger target" then realise it's not killing animals the same way as a .308.... at 150m no pig will take more than 20 steps with a 6.5 139 grains scenar travelling at 2600-2700 fps if shot in the vitals, use the right projectile for the job, target? ELDX, Berger 140 etc., hunting? Scenar in 139 is fantastic also as accurate as the ELDX is not better, really rough s**t to go through?"

You won't be accompanying me or any mature hunter I know that's for sure. Making the statement that a High BC target bullet can kill is correct, but it is the juvenile person that thinks that any projectile is suitable because it kills, no matter how it does it and how long the animal suffers. It shows a lack of respect for animals and that is unacceptable.
And any of the cartridges mentioned in a good rifle shooting well after pains of load development can shoot like you mention. On paper. Paper doesn't move, breath, feel pain or fear.
The 6.5 is a great target cartridge no issue, is mild to shoot so average guys can shoot it very well and is ecomonical compared to many. Unfortunately, it's human nature for many to spin anything they can and forget actual real-world experience of hunters and cartridges. All to justify their purchase. Cars, rifle brands, cartridges, to some they make up for all faults elsewhere.

The quite slow speed in the 6.5 Creedmoor make it easy to shoot for the novice, but those long heavy bullets target shooters obsess about need to hit something very solid to start expanding, if that, and be well matched to this velocity. In a real hunters reloading bench, he would pick the lighter hunting projectiles and match them to the game properly.

Bigrich's descriptions of his experience say it all for me and his input is a huge bonus in this discussion.
For me, from hunting alongside friends who've come out here, the terminal results on animals comparing this target cartridge to others mentioned is a marked difference. The 308 is a much more flexible and effective cartridge that the 6.5 paper puncher.

Don't disagree with you that the .308 is an excellent cartridge but in my opinion if I have to choose which one I use at 200m on a pig, I'll take the 6.5. At 100m and under I love my 45-70 and would not part with it for a .308.

Because of the 45-70 I tend to not see the benefit of the .308 at 100m or under, past that I love the 6.5 cm and past 200m I would probably not take the shot and try and get closer.

For the hunting we do in australia if you want a rifle tat will take anything down in the southern states the .308 is that round, would not trust it with a water buffalo or large scrub bulls thou

As I said before, generally most projectiles for the 6.5 are gathered towards target shooting hence the ever higher BC but I have found the Scenar's to be good for both hunting and target

the funny thing is that if you want target shooting only some of the 6mm make the 6.5cm feel like a cannon! with so many new cartridges coming I'd say they're trying to constantly make you spend money and give yo infinite options for arguing which is better

yeah , horses for courses , i've simplified my collection over the years to currently 6 rifles . having a bit of variety is interesting , but my 308 will take game at over 200 ,and in close and personal . from a practical point of view , it's one rifle that does the lot . keeps things simple and affordable for me as that's a consideration with cost of living and reloading getting more expensive .
with scrubbers there was a forum member on here years ago from up north (daddy bang? ) who used to cull them by head shooting with a 243 . your 45-70 would be up to the task as i've seen buff put down very convincingly with 45-70, so long as the range isn't too great. if you've found hunting bullets that perform well in the 6.5cm that's good , as quite a few i tried performed poorly. i find the 6mm creedmore interesting , much better case design than the 243 .