Sydney Police still use Revolvers

[perentie]

Watching the news earlier about the shooting in a Sydney Shopping Centre.
This senior Officer came on and explained about how a Machete wielding person was shot by an officer with his Service Revolver.
Now I was always under the impression all Police had switched to semi autos years ago. Obviously I was wrong.

[fnq22]

I cant answer your question but i wouldnt be surprised...

I had a jam in the first magazine of a service pistol shoot yesterday with my .22 Volquartson semi auto...turns out it was caused by my sloppy claeaning and over-oiling the previous night...

and thankfully the paper target doesnt shoot back...

The other thing is that cops up here (QLD) only have to do 1 range session a year to remain compliant....a small amount may do more but most do very little actual shooting practise..

Sometimes simple and foolproof are not a bad thing..there is really not much that can go wrong with a revolver....and surely 6 shots are enough for even a half-assed cop..

[womble]

It it said that when one crosses the border from NSW to Queensland, wind back your clock 30 years.

But not in this case. They transitioned to pistols early. Probably late 90’s.

[perentie]

I cant answer your question but i wouldnt be surprised...

I had a jam in the first magazine of a service pistol shoot yesterday with my .22 Volquartson semi auto...turns out it was caused by my sloppy claeaning and over-oiling the previous night...

and thankfully the paper target doesnt shoot back...

The other thing is that cops up here (QLD) only have to do 1 range session a year to remain compliant....a small amount may do more but most do very little actual shooting practise..

Sometimes simple and foolproof are not a bad thing..there is really not much that can go wrong with a revolver....and surely 6 shots are enough for even a half-assed cop..

Thats what I thought. A simple revolver and 6 shots should be enough. I prefer a revolver myself

[womble]

How would a policeman know the difference.

[bigrich]

from what i've read over the years people who want a pistol that works reliably in life or death situations prefer a revolver . i'm not licensed for cat H so whether or not anyone agrees with this .....

[No1Mk3]

Those who think a revolver is enough in a modern combat scenario should ask why militaries all over the world transitioned to auto-loaders with high capacity magazines decades ago. Police everywhere in the world now face criminals with firearms that exceed their own in capacity and reloadability, an auto is the best option, as a Member told me once, 6 is good but 15 is better.

[yoshie]

I'd say he mis-spoke and should've said service sidearm

[Bugman]

I'd say he mis-spoke and should've said service sidearm

Yes that would plausible. A senior plod having a senior moment, maybe.

[fnq22]

Those who think a revolver is enough in a modern combat scenario should ask why militaries all over the world transitioned to auto-loaders with high capacity magazines decades ago. Police everywhere in the world now face criminals with firearms that exceed their own in capacity and reloadability, an auto is the best option, as a Member told me once, 6 is good but 15 is better.

Big difference between a local cop and a highly trained professional soldier though isnt it and the same for the situations they may likely find themelves in....

and remember we are talking about Australia here..How many actual shootouts have there ever been where regular cops would have needed more firepower then a revolver and speedloaders provided....I would have thought the protocol meant that in situation where they were facing highly armed criminals they would retreat and hold and wait for a tactical response unit to arrive...beat cops are just simply not trained to handle such situations.

The cops and ex-cops I shoot against every 2 weeks are usually very ordinary(with just one exception) and i am constantly shaking my head wondering how they could possibly be so bad and why they wouldnt practise more live and dry fire to become more proficient as in reality its actually their job ...one on the past weekend with a 10 shot auto and one with a revolver were regularly missing the paper at 25 and 50 yards( 75cm x 45 cm target )....but at least I have never seen revolver guy have jams but semi- auto fella i have..


But yeah I do get where you are coming from that more bullets may be better as well as more sophisticated technology but in the hands of amateures the KISS principle probably works best from what I have seen..

[Wapiti]

I heard the announcer on SKY this morning saying that the maggot with the machete was culled with a "service" revolver. Which made me shake my head with pathetisism.
Hey, say that word fast 3 times.

[alexjones]

100% he misspoke.

Most police are stupid in regards to firearms. Whilst they open carry everyday the majority of police can not shoot and only shoot when they have to do their police required range time like once a year.

[bigrich]

100% he misspoke.

Most police are stupid in regards to firearms. Whilst they open carry everyday the majority of police can not shoot and only shoot when they have to do their police required range time like once a year.

they do their annual shoot at my local range, and the RO's have told me if a cop ever shoots at you the best thing you can do is stand still to avoid being hit

[bigrich]

Those who think a revolver is enough in a modern combat scenario should ask why militaries all over the world transitioned to auto-loaders with high capacity magazines decades ago. Police everywhere in the world now face criminals with firearms that exceed their own in capacity and reloadability, an auto is the best option, as a Member told me once, 6 is good but 15 is better.

Big difference between a local cop and a highly trained professional soldier though isnt it and the same for the situations they may likely find themelves in....

and remember we are talking about Australia here..How many actual shootouts have there ever been where regular cops would have needed more firepower then a revolver and speedloaders provided....I would have thought the protocol meant that in situation where they were facing highly armed criminals they would retreat and hold and wait for a tactical response unit to arrive...beat cops are just simply not trained to handle such situations.

The cops and ex-cops I shoot against every 2 weeks are usually very ordinary(with just one exception) and i am constantly shaking my head wondering how they could possibly be so bad and why they wouldnt practise more live and dry fire to become more proficient as in reality its actually their job ...one on the past weekend with a 10 shot auto and one with a revolver were regularly missing the paper at 25 and 50 yards( 75cm x 45 cm target )....but at least I have never seen revolver guy have jams but semi- auto fella i have..


But yeah I do get where you are coming from that more bullets may be better as well as more sophisticated technology but in the hands of amateures the KISS principle probably works best from what I have seen..

i agree . a firefight is a different situation that most cops will never see . and i believe your right about the protocol to pull back, contain the situation, and await the "specialist" response police.
from what i know (which is precious little about pistols) and what i've read , revolvers are a extremely reliable sidearm . in a survivalist situation i think i'd prefer a revolver in 357mag over anything else. JMHO

[Wapiti]

I agree with you, Big Rich. A good, not overly heavy revolver in a good calibre is 100% a great choice in a survivalist role.

Most autos used by cop departments are bought after a tender process, with the purchase price and overall maintenance costs and availability being the biggest consideration. They aren't the military, that tortures the guns to death with constant firing in limited maintenance environments.
Hence the cheap plastic crap they carry now, in a calibre designed to make up for their poor marksmanship skills, yet that calibre scares the crap out of them in the most part.
An easily controlled pistol in 9mm with proper HP projectiles can easily drop a much tougher, stronger animal than a soft wobbly human being. But then again, thats not the way cops shoot.
"While there's still lead in the air, there's hope"

[bigrich]

I agree with you, Big Rich. A good, not overly heavy revolver in a good calibre is 100% a great choice in a survivalist role.

Most autos used by cop departments are bought after a tender process, with the purchase price and overall maintenance costs and availability being the biggest consideration. They aren't the military, that tortures the guns to death with constant firing in limited maintenance environments.
Hence the cheap plastic crap they carry now, in a calibre designed to make up for their poor marksmanship skills, yet that calibre scares the crap out of them in the most part.
An easily controlled pistol in 9mm with proper HP projectiles can easily drop a much tougher, stronger animal than a soft wobbly human being. But then again, thats not the way cops shoot.
"While there's still lead in the air, there's hope"

a fella i knew a few years ago reckoned the smaller cals like 9mm were much easier to shoot accurately . in law enforcement and military situations i'd sorta be thinking shot placement is as important as hunting ferals . the same guy i was referring to had a 45 tanfoglio as well. beautiful, factory custom pistol .
i dunno , if i had the option as a copper, i'd choose a 357 revolver . then again , i've heard luger's aren't a bad thing

[perentie]

Yes, my Stainless Smith and Wesson mod 66 in .357 was my favourite when I shot handguns. Only shoot Shotgun and BP rifles now. At 79 I was finding the compulsory shoots and all the reloading a bit onerous. Still have the Licence though.

[Wapiti]

.357 in a revolver is not for me. Sounds big and powerful, and yes they are, reasonably effective in a 20" lever gun but in a 6" revolver, very disappointing on pigs.

On the farm, my wife had a 357 Blackhawk and I have the 44 mag, and one day we had swapped because she loves the big flash and recoil of the 44 in a 5" revolver. I found myself in a high grassed drain with a mob of reasonably large pigs, and shot a few in the chest as they ran about. They all had to be followed up, and this had happened more than once. I hate wounding animals and find it completely unacceptable.
I could not find factory hollowpoints that would properly shock or expand at 6" barrel velocities. Don't compare the so-so power of a 357 in a rifle to a revolver with a pistol length barrel. Sure it was a romantic looking revolver and shot very accurately.
So it got ditched for the 9mm semi-auto and the 124gn hollow points easily available expand incredibly well on anything I've shot, and drop way better than the more powerful 357 with the harder bullets.

Police needs, and human targets must be different. I'd imagine soft bellied people fall down most of the time just being shot with a rimfire.

[fnq22]

.

Police needs, and human targets must be different. I'd imagine soft bellied people fall down most of the time just being shot with a rimfire.

Unless they are Methed up....

Your observations are quite interesting mate..

A lot of shooters I talk to like the pistol calbers that also correspond to a lever gun as well..357 44 mag etc

it makes life easierfor range shooting where a lot of ammo is needed..

The other interesting thing is that The FBI has had a lot of influence for worldwide agencies on what handguns are issued ...30 years ago bigger was better with 40S@w and 45acp being commonly issued to stop humans...

These days after lots of testing and research as well as investigations into past shootings the 9mm is most reccomended..

These are a few factors that have given rise to this but the main ones are recoil and muzzle flip..
testing has shown very little difference in stopping power of someone being shot once or multiple times by 9mm or the 40 and 45 cals.

So as testing has shown that a 9mm can be fired faster and more accuratly, then its stands to reason that the more more shots you can off more quickly and accuratly at that center of body mass then the more likely you are to incapacitate a perpertrator..

So with a lot of law enforcement agencies and military swapping back to 9mm means manufactureres also follow that trend and that would be why there are so many options available in 1911 style handguns in 9mm these days..

The most common cases I find at my range after regular mandatory police shoots are 40 S@W so it appears as though some FNQ cops are still using this calibre..Maybe they havent got the memo yet.

There is quite a bit online about this very topic and its really quite facinating..

[Wapiti]

People have said to me before, you just haven't found the right ammo or 357. Maybe, but I tried a few brands of hollow point stuff that said it was super expanding. Including handloads. Maybe I didn't try enough types, quite possibly.

But with the 9mm, there hasn't been a 124gn hollow point that has failed me yet, even cheaper stuff.
In fact, the best, most consistent ammo I've used to date is the cheapest, the PPU 124gn HP stuff. Funny how completely conventional cup and core stuff at 1200fps from a 3-1/2" barrel just works.

Wouldn't be first choice for a survival handgun though. 44 mag definitely for me there.

[wrenchman]

I prefer a revolver but I am a older guy I don't feel any one is under gunned shooting one if they can shoot it right and practice

[deye243]

Watching the news earlier about the shooting in a Sydney Shopping Centre.
This senior Officer came on and explained about how a Machete wielding person was shot by an officer with his Service Revolver.
Now I was always under the impression all Police had switched to semi autos years ago. Obviously I was wrong.

What do you expect by an over entitled elderly f****** who thinks he knows what's better for us than we do he should have been retired 30 years ago.
You know the type just because he can't do it nobody can and nobody should be allowed to do anything he can't do

[Wapiti]

Hey, don't bag out senior Police like that.
They spent a lifetime backstabbing and reaming their colleagues to get where they are.
From their self-entitled world that gives them all the convincing they need that they are superior.

[Stoney]

.

Police needs, and human targets must be different. I'd imagine soft bellied people fall down most of the time just being shot with a rimfire.

Unless they are Methed up....

Your observations are quite interesting mate..

A lot of shooters I talk to like the pistol calbers that also correspond to a lever gun as well..357 44 mag etc

it makes life easierfor range shooting where a lot of ammo is needed..

The other interesting thing is that The FBI has had a lot of influence for worldwide agencies on what handguns are issued ...30 years ago bigger was better with 40S@w and 45acp being commonly issued to stop humans...

These days after lots of testing and research as well as investigations into past shootings the 9mm is most reccomended..

These are a few factors that have given rise to this but the main ones are recoil and muzzle flip..
testing has shown very little difference in stopping power of someone being shot once or multiple times by 9mm or the 40 and 45 cals.

So as testing has shown that a 9mm can be fired faster and more accuratly, then its stands to reason that the more more shots you can off more quickly and accuratly at that center of body mass then the more likely you are to incapacitate a perpertrator..

So with a lot of law enforcement agencies and military swapping back to 9mm means manufactureres also follow that trend and that would be why there are so many options available in 1911 style handguns in 9mm these days..

The most common cases I find at my range after regular mandatory police shoots are 40 S@W so it appears as though some FNQ cops are still using this calibre..Maybe they havent got the memo yet.

There is quite a bit online about this very topic and its really quite facinating..

The FBI actually carried the 10mm originally if memory serves me. The reason they advocated the 10mm/40 or 45 cal is because in northern cities of America such as Chicago a combination of very large/fat humans wearing a lot of heavy winter clothing, high on drugs were not being stopped at all in gun fights. in some instances, the 9mm wasn't even penetrating the perpetrators clothing let alone putting them down. Just my 2 cents.

[bigrich]

.

Police needs, and human targets must be different. I'd imagine soft bellied people fall down most of the time just being shot with a rimfire.

Unless they are Methed up....

Your observations are quite interesting mate..

A lot of shooters I talk to like the pistol calbers that also correspond to a lever gun as well..357 44 mag etc

it makes life easierfor range shooting where a lot of ammo is needed..

The other interesting thing is that The FBI has had a lot of influence for worldwide agencies on what handguns are issued ...30 years ago bigger was better with 40S@w and 45acp being commonly issued to stop humans...

These days after lots of testing and research as well as investigations into past shootings the 9mm is most reccomended..

These are a few factors that have given rise to this but the main ones are recoil and muzzle flip..
testing has shown very little difference in stopping power of someone being shot once or multiple times by 9mm or the 40 and 45 cals.

So as testing has shown that a 9mm can be fired faster and more accuratly, then its stands to reason that the more more shots you can off more quickly and accuratly at that center of body mass then the more likely you are to incapacitate a perpertrator..

So with a lot of law enforcement agencies and military swapping back to 9mm means manufactureres also follow that trend and that would be why there are so many options available in 1911 style handguns in 9mm these days..

The most common cases I find at my range after regular mandatory police shoots are 40 S@W so it appears as though some FNQ cops are still using this calibre..Maybe they havent got the memo yet.

There is quite a bit online about this very topic and its really quite facinating..

The FBI actually carried the 10mm originally if memory serves me. The reason they advocated the 10mm/40 or 45 cal is because in northern cities of America such as Chicago a combination of very large/fat humans wearing a lot of heavy winter clothing, high on drugs were not being stopped at all in gun fights. in some instances, the 9mm wasn't even penetrating the perpetrators clothing let alone putting them down. Just my 2 cents.

sounds like a great reason to carry a S&W 29 "dirty harry" 44mag clint eastwood just barely has cooler one liners than arnold schwarzenegger
wonder how many coppers have wanted to say the "make my day..." line

[fnq22]

.

Police needs, and human targets must be different. I'd imagine soft bellied people fall down most of the time just being shot with a rimfire.

Unless they are Methed up....

Your observations are quite interesting mate..

A lot of shooters I talk to like the pistol calbers that also correspond to a lever gun as well..357 44 mag etc

it makes life easierfor range shooting where a lot of ammo is needed..

The other interesting thing is that The FBI has had a lot of influence for worldwide agencies on what handguns are issued ...30 years ago bigger was better with 40S@w and 45acp being commonly issued to stop humans...

These days after lots of testing and research as well as investigations into past shootings the 9mm is most reccomended..

These are a few factors that have given rise to this but the main ones are recoil and muzzle flip..
testing has shown very little difference in stopping power of someone being shot once or multiple times by 9mm or the 40 and 45 cals.

So as testing has shown that a 9mm can be fired faster and more accuratly, then its stands to reason that the more more shots you can off more quickly and accuratly at that center of body mass then the more likely you are to incapacitate a perpertrator..

So with a lot of law enforcement agencies and military swapping back to 9mm means manufactureres also follow that trend and that would be why there are so many options available in 1911 style handguns in 9mm these days..

The most common cases I find at my range after regular mandatory police shoots are 40 S@W so it appears as though some FNQ cops are still using this calibre..Maybe they havent got the memo yet.

There is quite a bit online about this very topic and its really quite facinating..

The FBI actually carried the 10mm originally if memory serves me. The reason they advocated the 10mm/40 or 45 cal is because in northern cities of America such as Chicago a combination of very large/fat humans wearing a lot of heavy winter clothing, high on drugs were not being stopped at all in gun fights. in some instances, the 9mm wasn't even penetrating the perpetrators clothing let alone putting them down. Just my 2 cents.

Yeah up until about 10 years ago standard issue for FBI was the Glock .40 cal....

Now its the Glock 9mm..15 round standard mag but can also take mags up to 30 or so capacity..

That decision to change wasnt takebn lightly..lots and lots of testing in conjunction with ammo manufacturers to find the right loads and projectiles to maximize penetration through multiple clothing layers, wood, steel, glass etc

i think the current best may be a jacketed hollow point to allow good penetration but will then expand when entering human flesh..

USA police departments however differ in that some have standard issued service pistols and some give a choice of several approved firearms...some still offer .40 cal(I think there is even a few that offer .44 magnum) but most use 9mm in various brands...Beretta, Glock, Sig, S@W,seem to be most popular..

As I mentioned though with projectile and load developments the choice for the FBI wasnt just about a minute increase in penetration from 40 cal over 9mm..

They really do have to factor in the officer doing the shooting and the difference between shooting high powered factory loads in thoose calibres and the effect on accuracy.......shooting .40 cal handguns is no joke and for people that dont shoot often, the noise and recoil can be pretty off-putting whichh no doubt create accuracy and speed of fire issues...

They also have plenty of data to review and draw convclusions from as there are well over 1000 fatal police shootings every year in the USA (compared to 10-15 in australia)

and big rich everyone loves a .44 mag...a bloke new to our range has taken up shooting in the next bay from me whenever we are there at the same time recently and he always pops off 20-40 of $1.50 .44 mag rounds through his Dirty harry revolver...geez its loud though and i wish he would move further along the line but it is cool to watch him in action...the walker muffs dont take the edge of much though....

.I like to shoot 300-400 rounds a session so I'll stick with the .22..

[alexjones]

^^^^ yes I have a 33 round glock mag on my collector licence.

They are better suited to a Pistol calibre carbine that takes glock mags than a handgun because they protrude to far out of the pistol.