Hornady Sub-X projectiles

[Wapiti]

Hi all,
Wondering if any of you guys have tried the Hornady 175 and 190gn Sub-X projectiles in .30 cal.

Two questions,
If you found they shoot OK for subsonic velocities and,
Has anyone tried them on suitable game to see just how well they expand?
They are said to be meant for that purpose... probably for .300 BO.

[bigpete]

Yes I've tried the 190gn ones in my 308.

I found performance to be a little lack luster

[Wapiti]

Accuracy or expansion mate?

If they're not capable of hitting where the crosshairs tell them to, they aren't good for what I intend.

But I found Hornady to be hit and miss for the whole time I've ever reloaded ammo. Some good, some not. So with projies so bloody expensive nowadays, it pays to ask...

[Wapiti]

I've been staring at a few bags of 220gn Sierra Matchkings from another rifle's use, for the job, and these would be easier to get subsonic, but I know they will act like heavy pencils on game and I'm not into wounding anything.

[Flyonline]

Shoot em backwards or file a bigger meplat?

Only 2 or 3 goats I shot with sub x were sub par with limited expansion, but 3 is a very low sample size and shot placement could have been better.

Plenty of vids on Pootube with people dropping up to red deer size out to 100m.

[bigpete]

Accuracy or expansion mate?

If they're not capable of hitting where the crosshairs tell them to, they aren't good for what I intend.

But I found Hornady to be hit and miss for the whole time I've ever reloaded ammo. Some good, some not. So with projies so bloody expensive nowadays, it pays to ask...

They were accurate but not good killers imo.
Personally I've always had very good accuracy from hornady

[cusco]

Hi, I have used these in my 300 Blackout Ruger American at subsonic speeds. I have shot about half a dozen pigs with all dropping on the spot with careful shot placement. On larger pigs I aim for head/neck. Smaller ones go down with body hits. Rifle is fitted with a thermal scope so at night I sneak in close. I have not done any examination of animals re expansion of projectile as like I said they all dropped quickly. Accuracy wise at my 50 mts zero they group well, sub moa in my gun. I believe they like a fast twist barrel. ( Ruger is 1 in 8 ??) Check out the 300 Blackout thread in the Reloading section for data. Hope this helps.

[Wapiti]

Thanks guys for your real-world input. Very appreciated.
Cusco, I'll be using in 308 so am stuck with the 1-10" twist. So I guess I'll have to make the decision based on that.
As Bigpete and Flyonline reckon expansion can be a bit sub-par, maybe I'll try some of the heavier plastic tipped VMax or BT's first.
I know they shoot well between 2700 - 3500 (308's to 300 RUM) in different .30's so I'll give them a go first to find a powder charge.
Big drop in speed to what I'm used to so it will be completely alien to me.

I'm now considering the Sierra 135, 150 and 165 "Varminters": with the big open phillips head type hollow point, as these are bombs at 2-3x speed of sound. Might be great going slow. These have been available in 500 boxes at a big store on the Qld coast for great value and they shoot like Matchkings group-wise at normal cartridge speeds. But the sub loads will be for quite close so don't really need to be as fussy I guess.

[bigpete]

I've used 87gn sierra pistol bullets over 14gn of trailboss in a 308 with decent accuracy. Fwiw subsonic 190gn sub x shot great from a 1 in 10 twist 308

[Wapiti]

Great help Bigpete, thank you.

[bigrich]

I've been staring at a few bags of 220gn Sierra Matchkings from another rifle's use, for the job, and these would be easier to get subsonic, but I know they will act like heavy pencils on game and I'm not into wounding anything.

back in the day, pre "96, i bought a pristine 6.5x55 husky for the extravagant sum of $69 . with open sights i could outshoot a mates new, scoped ,stirling 22 mag at 100 . geez i wish i still had young eyes , anyway back on topic . back then the only factory ammo was super expensive norma hunting ammo , or ex military in a plain brown cardboard packet that was cheap. using a bracket jig on a bench grinder for consistency, i'd grind a 3-4mm flat point on the end of the ex-mil bullets and hey presto, they used to expand awesome on average size pigs . maybe a slight mod on your matchkings might yield better consistent results on game at sub sonic velocity . i did try hollow pointing the swede ex military ammo as well , but way to explosive on bigger game . subsonic might be different in your case .
just a thought anyway mate

[Wapiti]

Years ago, in my early '20's I used to hunt a mates property with an old 1951 Springfield Armory Garand. I'd zigzag slowly between the big old prickly pear trees because the pigs'd scrounge under them for the fruit the crows'd knock down.
Anyway I'd grind a 3-4mm flat on the FMJ military ammo I had. It would half skin the medium ones. Same in an Iraeli 308 Mauser I had then.
I'd forgotten about all that until your post above bigrich, that reminded me that all that stuff still has huge merits today, and never affected POI or trajectory at all. As far as I ever aimed at game anyway!

[bigrich]

Years ago, in my early '20's I used to hunt a mates property with an old 1951 Springfield Armory Garand. I'd zigzag slowly between the big old prickly pear trees because the pigs'd scrounge under them for the fruit the crows'd knock down.
Anyway I'd grind a 3-4mm flat on the FMJ military ammo I had. It would half skin the medium ones. Same in an Iraeli 308 Mauser I had then.
I'd forgotten about all that until your post above bigrich, that reminded me that all that stuff still has huge merits today, and never affected POI or trajectory at all. As far as I ever aimed at game anyway!

Yeah I thought it might be worth mentioning with your heavy match king dilemma. Pig hunting with a 30-06 garrand would be memorable. lol. The good old days hey ! Cheers

[Blr243]

Tried the 190 at slow speeds. Pretty useless on game Makers make 308 subs that open up properly due to their design The soft jackets and soft lead in hornady sub x is not enough to open up to improve wound channel

[Wapiti]

Thanks Blr. At the asking price of SubX, I reckon I'll stick to playing with the hollow point Gamekings.

[Flyonline]

This was the video that convinced me to give them a try.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4qTP-NIiGA

[wanneroo]

I have the 190 Sub X for 300 Blackout rostered as one of my future Youtube projects. If weather and time cooperate this fall, it might be a good project before winter closes in. Weather has been terrible this year.

[Wapiti]

This was the video that convinced me to give them a try.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4qTP-NIiGA

Started watching it because it was a kiwi bloke, my mates that breed and guide deer hunting in NZ have the most hunting credibility of anyone I've ever met.
But I can't watch animals being shot, although headshots on animals up close can be done with any projectile in a 308.

Thanks for adding to the discussion.

[cusco]

Hi Wapiti,
You mentioned the 135,150 and 165 Varminters instead. So, I have just started to reload the 135s but am still in the testing stage for them (looks good so far)for my .308 bolt gun but I have been using the 150s for a while now and find they work really well, ripping nice big holes in pigs. I run these supersonic in my Rem 7600 .308 for shooting pigs off the quad bike. My load is pretty basic just 44 gns of 2208 in multi fired PPU brass I was given. No need then to worry about collecting spent cases.
As to the 190 subX I re watched some of my thermal videos using the Ruger 300 BO and can confirm what I said in my original post re these dropping pigs. I know they are costly now @ 90 cents each but I got a few hundred when they were way cheaper from the "Margate shop" . Hope this helps.
BTW My 300 BO load is 11.2 of 2207 in cut down .223 brass, CCI primer, COAL 2.070 with a 3 shot average FPS of 1050

[bigrich]

Hi Wapiti,
You mentioned the 135,150 and 165 Varminters instead. So, I have just started to reload the 135s but am still in the testing stage for them (looks good so far)for my .308 bolt gun but I have been using the 150s for a while now and find they work really well, ripping nice big holes in pigs. I run these supersonic in my Rem 7600 .308 for shooting pigs off the quad bike. My load is pretty basic just 44 gns of 2208 in multi fired PPU brass I was given. No need then to worry about collecting spent cases.
As to the 190 subX I re watched some of my thermal videos using the Ruger 300 BO and can confirm what I said in my original post re these dropping pigs. I know they are costly now @ 90 cents each but I got a few hundred when they were way cheaper from the "Margate shop" . Hope this helps.
BTW My 300 BO load is 11.2 of 2207 in cut down .223 brass, CCI primer, COAL 2.070 with a 3 shot average FPS of 1050

the "margate shop" i call it "the big C" online 150sst's work out of a 308 for me on pigs. if i was to try a soft 308 load, i'd look into 30-30 projectiles as they're designed for slower speed . regards a 30-30 bolt gun , only factory one i can think of is the very rare rem 788, or i think savage might've made one

[OyKurwa]

I have tried them out. They shoot really accurately with the standard ADI sub load of 11.5gr of 2207.

The performance on game was really lacklustre. I haven't tested them specifically for expansion, but they felt like they were not doing much and examination of my quarry looked like straight through and through penetrations.

[Wapiti]

Hi Wapiti,
You mentioned the 135,150 and 165 Varminters instead. So, I have just started to reload the 135s but am still in the testing stage for them (looks good so far)for my .308 bolt gun but I have been using the 150s for a while now and find they work really well, ripping nice big holes in pigs. I run these supersonic in my Rem 7600 .308 for shooting pigs off the quad bike. My load is pretty basic just 44 gns of 2208 in multi fired PPU brass I was given. No need then to worry about collecting spent cases.
As to the 190 subX I re watched some of my thermal videos using the Ruger 300 BO and can confirm what I said in my original post re these dropping pigs. I know they are costly now @ 90 cents each but I got a few hundred when they were way cheaper from the "Margate shop" . Hope this helps.
BTW My 300 BO load is 11.2 of 2207 in cut down .223 brass, CCI primer, COAL 2.070 with a 3 shot average FPS of 1050

Thanks Cusco.
I bought many 500 boxes of the 135 HP Varminter Gamekings after trying them in a 16" barrel 308... 45/2206H runs at 2750- 2800fps and literally throws protein in all directions with head shots, which I just automatically do on everything for some reason.
And capable of tiny cluster groups, as I have come to expect from Sierras because of their accuracy over the years. But I will be the first to say that the term "varminter" is right, don't go chest shooting stronger built pigs especially those with shoulder shields, you will be following up and that's not on in my book.

So I figure, driven subsonic, they should be just as accurate, but less explosive. After all, I can't imagine anyone trying to run subsonic for noise purposes and expecting to do long range shooting still.