Legality Curiosity

[womble]

Gidday Legends

So I have a question for the team.

Victoria specifically, southern province of Australia. Obviously I drive a ute, because I’m not gay. Not that there’s anything wrong with driving a car. That’s all good.

So is it legal to store brass casings in my cup holders in my ute. Because my glove box is too full of brass. And this ute sure does has a lot of cup holders for some reason. For storing brass maybe.

Is this an issue if I get pulled over by the police. Who are my most favourite people ever and just a bunch of top blokes. And women of course. Because there’s nothing a woman can’t do that a man can. I’m not saying that.

I mean I will clean my ute out eventually. Just been busy.

And I might add. If this is breaking some laws , then none of this ever happened and I don’t know anything about it and that’s not my ute. Never seen it before in my life.

[jezzab]

I see no reason why it would be illegal if its spent brass (primers fired or missing). Cases and projectiles are inert and you can buy them in Vic without a firearms licence

[No1_49er]

Some people are inclined to over-think this sort of stuff, without taking the time to read the legislation - Act and Regulations.

[Wapiti]

I'd just add that it's not always the case (ha ha) that something is clear regarding the law.

WE all know that empty brass is just scrap metal, but that hasn't stopped over-zealous, deliberately biased individual police from charging firearms owners with onerous offences. Either deliberately or even just because there was an axe to grind.
Leaving individuals to blow all their cash in the local courts.
Sometimes even losing their public service or govt health related jobs over the charges.

Those of us in the sticks where locals carry firearms and ammo between or through places know so many instances of this. It's so easy to pick on an obvious demographic.

The police in question NEVER face consequences for this.

I never leave empty cases in my vehicles. Never loaded ammo. Never in the glovebox. This won't happen to me like it has to others.
I shouldn't have to think like this, but circumstances show me who I can and cannot ever trust.

[womble]

Some people are inclined to over-think this sort of stuff, without taking the time to read the legislation - Act and Regulations.

I must confess I've not memorised the act.

Regulations are always changing.

I'm sure you'd be facing very serious consequences in WA not for any sound reasoning.

But in other states it's probably a non issue.

[Billo]

The only issue that I can see with the brass filled ute cabin is the potential for brass to bounce around and get in all manner of hidy holes in your ute, and then when you drop a loaded round or eject an unfired round and you fail to account for it at the end of a long night.

Don't let a single round of ammo cost you your license when an over zealous RBT stop turns into a loss of licence

[No1Mk3]

Absolutely no problem at all, from a legal standpoint. But as Billo wrote it may be a tidiness hazard and a missed live round will certainly cost your licence from a narky cop. Have seen that before,

[alexjones]

You can buy brass without a gun licence, so this answers your question about legality.

[Billo]

You can buy brass without a gun licence, so this answers your question about legality.

That may be the case but try and take brass as carry on luggage in this country and it will be binned

[MG5150]

If a police officer leans in the window and can see brass they might initiate a vehicle search and find something else they can get you on.

You might not be breaking the law with spent brass, but if there is something they can get you on this is the foot in the door they may need.

[Bugman]

You can buy brass without a gun licence, so this answers your question about legality.

That may be the case but try and take brass as carry on luggage in this country and it will be binned

I brought some brass cases that I bought from Cleavers, when I flew home from Brisbane, a couple of years ago, with no problem.

[womble]

If a police officer leans in the window and can see brass they might initiate a vehicle search and find something else they can get you on.

You might not be breaking the law with spent brass, but if there is something they can get you on this is the foot in the door they may need.

That does sound like how they operate. And I wouldn’t want them to find a dead body or something to arouse suspicion.

[womble]

The consensus then is prudent, always be neat and presentable. Tidy vehicle everything ship shape.

[Wapiti]

Exactly what happened at Applethorpe on a Sunday when we went through there between our places.
Cops had a roadside vehicle defect, drug and firearm stop on the highway, and two fellas in a ute had the whole contents of the vehicle all over the footpath. Coppers had seen empty brass in the console and that was enough to initiate a search.
Then there was the bloke in Warwick who had been out spotlighting that night, was in Maccas carpark and some coppers walked over and saw brass in ammo boxes in his console. His rifle was concealed in a bag behind the seat, and his bolt and live ammo was locked in the glovebox. He was sitting in his Landcruiser ute.
He was charged for unsecure storage of a firearm in a vehicle, irrespective of the fact that he was not at fault. He lost his firearm license and his job in the hospital and had to fight it in the local court.
That's where I got the $15K figure from.

Laugh this off if you want as BS, but you won't be laughing if it happens to you. Hide your gear, and don't throw the dice.

[Billo]

You can buy brass without a gun licence, so this answers your question about legality.

That may be the case but try and take brass as carry on luggage in this country and it will be binned

I brought some brass cases that I bought from Cleavers, when I flew home from Brisbane, a couple of years ago, with no problem.

Not in hand luggage you havent and recently, Ive tried multiple times and failed at X ray, same with projectiles. Adelaide, Hobart and Melbourne airport

[Bugman]

You can buy brass without a gun licence, so this answers your question about legality.

That may be the case but try and take brass as carry on luggage in this country and it will be binned

I brought some brass cases that I bought from Cleavers, when I flew home from Brisbane, a couple of years ago, with no problem.

Not in hand luggage you havent and recently, Ive tried multiple times and failed at X ray, same with projectiles. Adelaide, Hobart and Melbourne airport

YES it was in my hand luggage, you were not there, I was. A security person saw them on the x-ray of my carry on bag, checked with her supervisor who had a close look at the sealed bag of cases and deemed not to be a problem, and let me through. If you don't believe me then that is your problem.

[alexjones]

Exactly what happened at Applethorpe on a Sunday when we went through there between our places.
Cops had a roadside vehicle defect, drug and firearm stop on the highway, and two fellas in a ute had the whole contents of the vehicle all over the footpath. Coppers had seen empty brass in the console and that was enough to initiate a search.
Then there was the bloke in Warwick who had been out spotlighting that night, was in Maccas carpark and some coppers walked over and saw brass in ammo boxes in his console. His rifle was concealed in a bag behind the seat, and his bolt and live ammo was locked in the glovebox. He was sitting in his Landcruiser ute.
He was charged for unsecure storage of a firearm in a vehicle, irrespective of the fact that he was not at fault. He lost his firearm license and his job in the hospital and had to fight it in the local court.
That's where I got the $15K figure from.

Laugh this off if you want as BS, but you won't be laughing if it happens to you. Hide your gear, and don't throw the dice.

Storing a bolt with ammo is illegal in QLD. A bolt is considered a major firearm component. It is the exact same thing from as a legal standpoint as storing a gun with ammo.

So if his ammo was in the glovebox with the bolt that is illegal. Unless they were in seperate containers.

[9.3x64]

Exactly what happened at Applethorpe on a Sunday when we went through there between our places.
Cops had a roadside vehicle defect, drug and firearm stop on the highway, and two fellas in a ute had the whole contents of the vehicle all over the footpath. Coppers had seen empty brass in the console and that was enough to initiate a search.
Then there was the bloke in Warwick who had been out spotlighting that night, was in Maccas carpark and some coppers walked over and saw brass in ammo boxes in his console. His rifle was concealed in a bag behind the seat, and his bolt and live ammo was locked in the glovebox. He was sitting in his Landcruiser ute.
He was charged for unsecure storage of a firearm in a vehicle, irrespective of the fact that he was not at fault. He lost his firearm license and his job in the hospital and had to fight it in the local court.
That's where I got the $15K figure from.

Laugh this off if you want as BS, but you won't be laughing if it happens to you. Hide your gear, and don't throw the dice.

Storing a bolt with ammo is illegal in QLD. A bolt is considered a major firearm component. It is the exact same thing from as a legal standpoint as storing a gun with ammo.

So if his ammo was in the glovebox with the bolt that is illegal. Unless they were in seperate containers.

Exactly right in Queensland.
Firearm, bolt, ammunition. All separate.
Simple.
It’s not hard really.
How long does it take to separate them all.

I just don’t get why people resist this.
If you have ever lost a mate to an illegal firearm you would understand.

[Wapiti]

Exactly what happened at Applethorpe on a Sunday when we went through there between our places.
Cops had a roadside vehicle defect, drug and firearm stop on the highway, and two fellas in a ute had the whole contents of the vehicle all over the footpath. Coppers had seen empty brass in the console and that was enough to initiate a search.
Then there was the bloke in Warwick who had been out spotlighting that night, was in Maccas carpark and some coppers walked over and saw brass in ammo boxes in his console. His rifle was concealed in a bag behind the seat, and his bolt and live ammo was locked in the glovebox. He was sitting in his Landcruiser ute.
He was charged for unsecure storage of a firearm in a vehicle, irrespective of the fact that he was not at fault. He lost his firearm license and his job in the hospital and had to fight it in the local court.
That's where I got the $15K figure from.

Laugh this off if you want as BS, but you won't be laughing if it happens to you. Hide your gear, and don't throw the dice.

Storing a bolt with ammo is illegal in QLD. A bolt is considered a major firearm component. It is the exact same thing from as a legal standpoint as storing a gun with ammo.

So if his ammo was in the glovebox with the bolt that is illegal. Unless they were in seperate containers.

That's a good point. Perhaps the story I got from the gunshop blokes wasn't 100% correct or I left something out. Looks quite likely.

At any rate, apparently after court hearings in town, the magistrate thew the case out as the facts presented found that he hadn't breached the weapons act as it stood and found for the reinstatement of old mates firearms licence and return of firearms.
Last I heard was that he was going through the embuggerance of getting Weapons Licensing to reinstate his licence. I don't know about the reinstatement of his nurse job.

The few examples I wrote about from the many that happen often, all started with the glance inside a vehicle and seeing cartridge cases, giving probable cause to take things to a bastard of a result. It's pretty simple not to be a slob or a showoff and put all the gear away from sight.
It still makes me surprised how many people will think this doesn't happen all the time, maybe some don't get out much except to hit the keys.

At the very least, to not show potential thieves that there might be something hidden in the vehicle that might use the spent cases in the console.
Good luck for those who push theirs.

[bladeracer]

Exactly right in Queensland.
Firearm, bolt, ammunition. All separate.
Simple.
It’s not hard really.
How long does it take to separate them all.

Is that a legal requirement in Qld, to remove the bolt? I'll be traveling up there in a few weeks with a bunch of firearms.

[9.3x64]

Exactly right in Queensland.
Firearm, bolt, ammunition. All separate.
Simple.
It’s not hard really.
How long does it take to separate them all.

Is that a legal requirement in Qld, to remove the bolt? I'll be traveling up there in a few weeks with a bunch of firearms.

I have always done it anyway.
I have spent years with some of the worst pricks in this state. I have spent a lot of time talking to them about their crimes.
And the one common denominator they love is “opportunity”. I always transport my rifle, bolt, and ammunition separately.
I don’t leave any shell cases in sight.
I don’t have any shooting related stickers on my vehicle.
I don’t get out of the car wearing camo shirt if I need a piss.
That’s just me, some might think I am over thinking it.
But if I end up in front of a magistrate to explain to him why my firearm was stolen, I can at least show I made a genuine effort to prevent the theft.

[No1_49er]

For those of you who feel so inclined, the links to the Qld Act and Regulations are here: -
Act - https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/view ... t-1990-071
Regulations - https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/view ... -2016-0131
It's not necessary to memorise them; you simply need to know where to go for the (current) legislation.
Read at your leisure

[Wapiti]

Exactly right in Queensland.
Firearm, bolt, ammunition. All separate.
Simple.
It’s not hard really.
How long does it take to separate them all.

Is that a legal requirement in Qld, to remove the bolt? I'll be traveling up there in a few weeks with a bunch of firearms.

I have always done it anyway.
I have spent years with some of the worst pricks in this state. I have spent a lot of time talking to them about their crimes.
And the one common denominator they love is “opportunity”. I always transport my rifle, bolt, and ammunition separately.
I don’t leave any shell cases in sight.
I don’t have any shooting related stickers on my vehicle.
I don’t get out of the car wearing camo shirt if I need a piss.
That’s just me, some might think I am over thinking it.
But if I end up in front of a magistrate to explain to him why my firearm was stolen, I can at least show I made a genuine effort to prevent the theft.

You sum up our attitude to a tee mate.
Not only do all those things spotlight a demographic to the police if they are having a boring drive, or particularly, the regular blitzes we get here at Wallangarra (the border on the New England) Ballandeen, Applethorpe and Warwick at the park opposite the hospital, they shorten the odds for theives.

We know it happens, so why push your luck?
How hard is it to separate ammo, bolt, and firearm?

Warwick police put a story in the local free paper recently about their intentions to blitz the increasing theft of unsecured firearms in vehicles, in camp-sites (WTF???) and farms, and how zero tolerance will be given.
We cover our arses everywhere we travel when we drive in-between places. We've got better things to do than play the smart aleck card and empty our gear all over the roadside.

[9.3x64]

Yeah firearm theft is an issue.
I heard this morning that from next month you will need to show your firearms license in QLD to purchase ammunition. The dealer must then check that license is valid on the QPL website before handing over the ammunition. If the website is down they must record the license number and check it later.
The story I got was that they are seeing a spike in people trying to buy ammunition with fake firearms liscences, for stolen or manufactured weapons using 3D printing technology.

[alexjones]

Exactly right in Queensland.
Firearm, bolt, ammunition. All separate.
Simple.
It’s not hard really.
How long does it take to separate them all.

Is that a legal requirement in Qld, to remove the bolt? I'll be traveling up there in a few weeks with a bunch of firearms.

Only when storing in your safe. The bolt must be removed OR the action broken. You know those white sticks that you clean your ears with? On pumps and lever actions I just break the action and stick them in like a chamber flag.

If you are away from your safe IE or a visitor to QLD the bolt must be removed; or a trigger lock fitted or it must be stored in a locked container in a house/hotel or in your boot or inside your cabin if your car has no boot.

[alexjones]

Section 94 of the weapons regulation is storage in your safe and section 95 is storage away from your safe.

[alexjones]

In regards to searching a licence number. When you get a new condition code on your licence they send you a new card and do not take the old card.

So I have several cards for the same licence that are all current. A criminal could give one of the cards to someone who looks like them to buy ammo or magazines or do a like for like swap on a unregistered gun to a dealer that has no idea.

[9.3x64]

In regards to searching a licence number. When you get a new condition code on your licence they send you a new card and do not take the old card.

So I have several cards for the same licence that are all current. A criminal could give one of the cards to someone who looks like them to buy ammo or magazines or do a like for like swap on a unregistered gun to a dealer that has no idea.

Yeah, that’s a very good point.

[womble]

The dealer will know if it’s unregistered.

I just sold a gun to a dealer i bought in 1990

They told me it wasn’t registered.

I told them yes it is.

And sent a copy of the registration, which is an older style than the pink slips.

I’d previously registered that gun 3 times with the police now . Meaning I’d listed it in audits. But they don’t seem to understand what a serial number is I guess.

Anyway not my gun anymore.

[bladeracer]

For those of you who feel so inclined, the links to the Qld Act and Regulations are here: -
Act - https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/view ... t-1990-071
Regulations - https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/view ... -2016-0131
It's not necessary to memorise them; you simply need to know where to go for the (current) legislation.
Read at your leisure

Thanks for that.
My plan is to fix a rifle safe into the vehicle and keep the firearms in that so I should be good I think.