Sydney Police still use Revolvers

[bladeracer]

How does that work..?..
Does a gun dealer buy a bulk lot of retired service pistols whena police force or state is changing their standard issued guns..?

I guess you would be well assured they wouldnt be worn out though I'm not sure how much love and maintenance they get from the average officer ...

A dealer here had a bunch of ex-Police Model 10's earlier this year, and some Model 19's.

I picked myself up a six-inch Model 19.

[wanneroo]

About 10 years ago I should have jumped on one of the surplus S&W Victoria Model 10 police revolvers we got as surplus here in the USA.

If the NSW police still use revolvers I imagine some day we will get them as surplus.

Recently we got some back up Glock .40 pistols from the QLD Police. I was tempted to get one.

How does that work..?..
Does a gun dealer buy a bulk lot of retired service pistols whena police force or state is changing their standard issued guns..?

I guess you would be well assured they wouldnt be worn out though I'm not sure how much love and maintenance they get from the average officer ...

The trade in business is big business for the main gun manufacturers. I know it's how Glock makes most of their profit when they sell to the police agencies.

The agency gets a credit for their old trade in pistols. Glock, Sig, Smith and Wesson, etc. then sell the bulk of them to big distributors and then they get sold to the public. We have big online dealers in the USA like AIM Surplus, Classic Firearms, Atlantic Firearms these days that will get these pistols in bulk, promote them at a nice price and sell them out.

It's the same way a new car dealer makes a lot of their profit selling trade ins.

Condition can vary depending on how long the pistols were in service and what the agency was. I have a number of ex cop revolvers and pistols from Europe. The best ones I have is an H&K from Thurgau Polizei in Switzerland and two Berettas from Italy. The 81 came out of the prison system and the 92 came from the Guardia di Finanza. They are lightly used and well kept, not new of course, but have plenty of life in them.

[wanneroo]

.

Police needs, and human targets must be different. I'd imagine soft bellied people fall down most of the time just being shot with a rimfire.

Unless they are Methed up....

Your observations are quite interesting mate..

A lot of shooters I talk to like the pistol calbers that also correspond to a lever gun as well..357 44 mag etc

it makes life easierfor range shooting where a lot of ammo is needed..

The other interesting thing is that The FBI has had a lot of influence for worldwide agencies on what handguns are issued ...30 years ago bigger was better with 40S@w and 45acp being commonly issued to stop humans...

These days after lots of testing and research as well as investigations into past shootings the 9mm is most reccomended..

These are a few factors that have given rise to this but the main ones are recoil and muzzle flip..
testing has shown very little difference in stopping power of someone being shot once or multiple times by 9mm or the 40 and 45 cals.

So as testing has shown that a 9mm can be fired faster and more accuratly, then its stands to reason that the more more shots you can off more quickly and accuratly at that center of body mass then the more likely you are to incapacitate a perpertrator..

So with a lot of law enforcement agencies and military swapping back to 9mm means manufactureres also follow that trend and that would be why there are so many options available in 1911 style handguns in 9mm these days..

The most common cases I find at my range after regular mandatory police shoots are 40 S@W so it appears as though some FNQ cops are still using this calibre..Maybe they havent got the memo yet.

There is quite a bit online about this very topic and its really quite facinating..

The FBI actually carried the 10mm originally if memory serves me. The reason they advocated the 10mm/40 or 45 cal is because in northern cities of America such as Chicago a combination of very large/fat humans wearing a lot of heavy winter clothing, high on drugs were not being stopped at all in gun fights. in some instances, the 9mm wasn't even penetrating the perpetrators clothing let alone putting them down. Just my 2 cents.

This was back 45 years ago and medical technology and first responder trauma gear and experience has improved but my dad did a stint as an ER doctor before moving into other medical fields. He always said 45 ACP was the most effective because it made a big hole and people typically bled out before they got to his operating table and there wasn't much he could do.

The reason 10mm and 357 SIG did not make it long term in law enforcement is because women could not qualify with it. That's it, no other reason. Same to some extent with 40 cal.

Now these days with bullet and powder tech, 9mm can just about match 40 cal, enough that it doesn't make a difference.

[wanneroo]

^^^^ yes I have a 33 round glock mag on my collector licence.

They are better suited to a Pistol calibre carbine that takes glock mags than a handgun because they protrude to far out of the pistol.

You dont by any chance have a Glock 18 to go with that mag....although on full auto it would only take about 1.5 seconds to empty it and aside from the first couple most shots would probably go 20 foot above the target..sure would be fun though..

Here is a video I took of my brother in law with a Glock 18.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/8r7gxqC0lJ8

I have shot one several times, if you know what you are doing, it is very controllable and at 15 yards you can put all the shots into a man sized target.

If you don't know what you are doing, well yes one can make a mess of it.

[fnq22]

How does that work..?..
Does a gun dealer buy a bulk lot of retired service pistols whena police force or state is changing their standard issued guns..?

I guess you would be well assured they wouldnt be worn out though I'm not sure how much love and maintenance they get from the average officer ...

A dealer here had a bunch of ex-Police Model 10's earlier this year, and some Model 19's.

I picked myself up a six-inch Model 19.

You happy with it mate..?..Are you mainly using 38 in it..?

I look on with a little envy at a retired cop at our monthly service pistol shoot as he is on the firing line with his 686...

I'll be looking at getting one or the other at some stage ... i do like the look of the stainless models but how can you go wrong with an old classic 19...I guess it will come down to whats available and at what price.....

[wanneroo]

One I should have jumped on earlier this year was ex police out of France, Smith and Wesson Model 10s in nice condition for just over 400 bucks.

[fnq22]

^^^^ yes I have a 33 round glock mag on my collector licence.

They are better suited to a Pistol calibre carbine that takes glock mags than a handgun because they protrude to far out of the pistol.

You dont by any chance have a Glock 18 to go with that mag....although on full auto it would only take about 1.5 seconds to empty it and aside from the first couple most shots would probably go 20 foot above the target..sure would be fun though..

Here is a video I took of my brother in law with a Glock 18.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/8r7gxqC0lJ8

I have shot one several times, if you know what you are doing, it is very controllable and at 15 yards you can put all the shots into a man sized target.

If you don't know what you are doing, well yes one can make a mess of it.

Looks like a load of fun, though the ammo cost makes me cringe...

So whats the laws where you are on owning auto's...?

[bladeracer]

You happy with it mate..?..Are you mainly using 38 in it..?

I look on with a little envy at a retired cop at our monthly service pistol shoot as he is on the firing line with his 686...

I'll be looking at getting one or the other at some stage ... i do like the look of the stainless models but how can you go wrong with an old classic 19...I guess it will come down to whats available and at what price.....

I haven't had a chance to shoot it but I'm very happy with the condition. It's a dash-3 so probably 1967 or 1968. Came with a right-handed target grip as well as the original wooden grip. I was looking for a left-handed grip for the Morini CM22M (still looking if anybody knows of one around) and stumbled on a left-handed target grip for the Model 19 so Rose and I will be able to use it for the IPSC and ICORE matches and the Service and WA-style matches with the combat grip, as well as Centrefire precision matches with the target grips. Really looking forward to getting it in my hands. T-Bone Shipwriting (who I regard highly) had it listed for months at $400 with the grips, four speed loaders with two double-pouches, and the holster. I rang and asked Tom why it was so cheap and he said that's all they're worth. But he assured me it's a nice piece so I grabbed it, and it looks really nice.

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I have been collecting .357 brass but I have a mountain of .38 brass and ammo so I expect to just stick with the .38's.

My mate's 686-6 broke its firing pin last week so I put a new one in it, we're going in to test it and do some practice this arvo.

[fnq22]

Thats a lot of kit for $400 mate...very nice holster and pouches too..I would have grabbed it too if i was allowed.

[wanneroo]

^^^^ yes I have a 33 round glock mag on my collector licence.

They are better suited to a Pistol calibre carbine that takes glock mags than a handgun because they protrude to far out of the pistol.

You dont by any chance have a Glock 18 to go with that mag....although on full auto it would only take about 1.5 seconds to empty it and aside from the first couple most shots would probably go 20 foot above the target..sure would be fun though..

Here is a video I took of my brother in law with a Glock 18.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/8r7gxqC0lJ8

I have shot one several times, if you know what you are doing, it is very controllable and at 15 yards you can put all the shots into a man sized target.

If you don't know what you are doing, well yes one can make a mess of it.

Looks like a load of fun, though the ammo cost makes me cringe...

So whats the laws where you are on owning auto's...?

There are 3 categories:
Transferables made before May 1986. Anyone in most states that can legally own a gun can own one of these. However because supply is restricted to what was made before May 1986, there are 175000 transferable machine guns and hence prices are over $10K to start on anything.

Pre 1986 samples. Dealers can own these and can sell them to other dealers. Dealers can keep them if they shut their business but they can only ever be sold to other dealers.

Post 1986 samples. These can be created by dealers or manufacturers and transferred between such, but regular public cannot own them. If fact the dealers or manufacturers can never "own" them. If they close and don't transfer them they have to be destroyed.

Most of the machine guns I shoot are probably Post 1986 samples. I pay to shoot them under supervision.

[wanneroo]

You happy with it mate..?..Are you mainly using 38 in it..?

I look on with a little envy at a retired cop at our monthly service pistol shoot as he is on the firing line with his 686...

I'll be looking at getting one or the other at some stage ... i do like the look of the stainless models but how can you go wrong with an old classic 19...I guess it will come down to whats available and at what price.....

I haven't had a chance to shoot it but I'm very happy with the condition. It's a dash-3 so probably 1967 or 1968. Came with a right-handed target grip as well as the original wooden grip. I was looking for a left-handed grip for the Morini CM22M (still looking if anybody knows of one around) and stumbled on a left-handed target grip for the Model 19 so Rose and I will be able to use it for the IPSC and ICORE matches and the Service and WA-style matches with the combat grip, as well as Centrefire precision matches with the target grips. Really looking forward to getting it in my hands. T-Bone Shipwriting (who I regard highly) had it listed for months at $400 with the grips, four speed loaders with two double-pouches, and the holster. I rang and asked Tom why it was so cheap and he said that's all they're worth. But he assured me it's a nice piece so I grabbed it, and it looks really nice.

20250611_134108b.jpg

20250611_134133b.jpg

I have been collecting .357 brass but I have a mountain of .38 brass and ammo so I expect to just stick with the .38's.

My mate's 686-6 broke its firing pin last week so I put a new one in it, we're going in to test it and do some practice this arvo.

That's a good deal for $400. Can't go wrong with that.

[bladeracer]

I haven't had a chance to shoot it but I'm very happy with the condition. It's a dash-3 so probably 1967 or 1968. Came with a right-handed target grip as well as the original wooden grip. I was looking for a left-handed grip for the Morini CM22M (still looking if anybody knows of one around) and stumbled on a left-handed target grip for the Model 19 so Rose and I will be able to use it for the IPSC and ICORE matches and the Service and WA-style matches with the combat grip, as well as Centrefire precision matches with the target grips. Really looking forward to getting it in my hands. T-Bone Shipwriting (who I regard highly) had it listed for months at $400 with the grips, four speed loaders with two double-pouches, and the holster. I rang and asked Tom why it was so cheap and he said that's all they're worth. But he assured me it's a nice piece so I grabbed it, and it looks really nice.

That's a good deal for $400. Can't go wrong with that.

Agreed, I think it was a bloody bargain. I picked up the lefty Morini Model 19 grip for $150 from somebody that lives 200km away, and he dropped it off to me while he was in the area. One thing that has stood out to me since getting back into pistol shooting is how awesome the people are.

I really wanted a four-inch 19 but I already had two open-front holsters for six-inch revolvers, and the longer sight radius will help in the ISSF precision matches. I think I'll be able to live with it. The speedloaders are the punch style (which I prefer) and I have three of the twist-style as well. As soon as I have it in my hands I'll be in the club practicing reloads for hours.

[bladeracer]

My dealer has a really nice eight-inch 686-3 if anybody is interested in something a little different.

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I wouldn't mind it for Silhouette

[fnq22]

That would be quite nice for club service pistol matchs as well...though the guy with a 6 inch model might call me a cheat..

They already try and blame my sometime accurate shooting on the length of the Volquartsen and dont seem to listen when i say our barrels are the same length and the 2 inch compensator on mine makes no difference apart from appearing longer.....shooting the Volquartsen accurately is actually harder at longer distances because its so light IMO...

BTW What sort of money does your guy want for that lovely revolver..?

[bladeracer]

That would be quite nice for club service pistol matchs as well...though the guy with a 6 inch model might call me a cheat..

They already try and blame my sometime accurate shooting on the length of the Volquartsen and dont seem to listen when i say our barrels are the same length and the 2 inch compensator on mine makes no difference apart from appearing longer.....shooting the Volquartsen accurately is actually harder at longer distances because its so light IMO...

BTW What sort of money does your guy want for that lovely revolver..?

Not allowed in Service, I think they have a 150mm barrel restriction? But it's allowed in ICORE and Action Match apparently. I think he's chasing about $1500 for it. I think he has a scope for it as well. I expected it to feel front heavy but my mate has a six-inch 686-6 with the barrel weights and that's way more front heavy. But it's a lot of pistol to draw from an enclosed holster, not so bad from an open-front rig though.

My mate's bought a Volquartson but has to wait another couple months for it, he asked me to drop past the shop and grab the red dot off it so he could play with it on his 686.

Check your private messages.

[fnq22]

Fortunately our club rules are more relaxed up here and although the service pistol format remains the same, rimfire and non-service pistols are allowed...it means more people can enter and also do the 90 rounds much cheaper..

What model Volquartsen did your mate get..?..I'll likely get a green dot for mine sooner or later but I've always mainly used scoped rifles my whole life so am enjoying learning the art of iron sight shooting..

[bladeracer]

Fortunately our club rules are more relaxed up here and although the service pistol format remains the same, rimfire and non-service pistols are allowed...it means more people can enter and also do the 90 rounds much cheaper..

What model Volquartsen did your mate get..?..I'll likely get a green dot for mine sooner or later but I've always mainly used scoped rifles my whole life so am enjoying learning the art of iron sight shooting..

We could use anything in the club matches, they're not too fussed about it here either, but no good if you want to to shoot at other clubs as well.

No idea what model the Volq is, they all look pretty similar to me

[fnq22]

Fortunately our club rules are more relaxed up here and although the service pistol format remains the same, rimfire and non-service pistols are allowed...it means more people can enter and also do the 90 rounds much cheaper..

What model Volquartsen did your mate get..?..I'll likely get a green dot for mine sooner or later but I've always mainly used scoped rifles my whole life so am enjoying learning the art of iron sight shooting..

We could use anything in the club matches, they're not too fussed about it here either, but no good if you want to to shoot at other clubs as well.

No idea what model the Volq is, they all look pretty similar to me

Yeah its the same here..casual at club matches but not so in more serious interclub shoots.

Tha main difference between Volk models is that the mamba uses the ruger mk 4 lower on volk upper...so its a one button push takedown in about 2 seconds..

The Scorpian uses Mk 3 which requires a tool to pull apart.....you can also buy both models in 2 grip angles depending on your preference..

You mate should be well happy..I took along an old vice to re-sight in last time and only needed one 19mm patch to cover the grouping at 50 yards..
Just wish I could do anywhere near that freehand..

[fnq22]

Watching the news earlier about the shooting in a Sydney Shopping Centre.
This senior Officer came on and explained about how a Machete wielding person was shot by an officer with his Service Revolver.
Now I was always under the impression all Police had switched to semi autos years ago. Obviously I was wrong.

Had a chat to a couple of cops after IPSC training at the weekend and in QLD currently its a Glock in .40cal, though at some stage, finances permitting, they will likely transition to 9mm..

When i mentioned revolvers it was scornfully stated they were outdated dinosaurs and when I pointed out the large number of malfunctions during the shoot with quite a few semi-auto's they mentioned that most were either from handloads or operator error...

But this was from the perspective of a very small percentage of cops that shoot most weekends and are bascially handgun enthusiasts which may be different from whatever large percentage of cops that only shoot once a year...

and who knows maybe all the John Wick style movies of today makes the younger ones think 10 round semi auto's are way cooler then Dirty Harrys S@W revolver..

An interesting conversation nonetheless and it still leaves me scratching my head why more cops dont spend more time becoming proficient in firearms training..