Thoughts on what push button/lever release shotgun

[Wapiti]

Hi all,
I'd like to pick your brains about buying another shotgun that is self-ejecting, push button etc.
Which brands have you used, and what you find the best? Pros and cons?

I have my eye on a Buckmaster Gen2, 20" with chokes and a synthetic stock of traditional shape. So not pistol grip, folding or similar.
I'm after something I can use elsewhere, that is slim and fits up against a B Pillar, nice and slender.
With cat c and d, you cannot use those firearms off the property that they are registered on, so I need another to get around with.

[bladeracer]

Hi all,
I'd like to pick your brains about buying another shotgun that is self-ejecting, push button etc.
Which brands have you used, and what you find the best? Pros and cons?

I have my eye on a Buckmaster Gen2, 20" with chokes and a synthetic stock of traditional shape. So not pistol grip, folding or similar.
I'm after something I can use elsewhere, that is slim and fits up against a B Pillar, nice and slender.
With cat c and d, you cannot use those firearms off the property that they are registered on, so I need another to get around with.

Button release on the forend is the only thing I can work well with. The lever-releases I find clumsy, though with plenty of practice I could probably make them work well. The Tacsorus I struggled to get the hang of, and I dislike anything that asks your trigger finger to do any action except pulling the trigger, that's just asking for ND's. I like to keep my firing hand in place and carry out any other actions with the weak hand.

Check your private messages Wapiti.

[jezzab]

Happy with my Templeton T2000. Takes a little muscle memory to get your thumb to hit the button for follow up shots but once you get the hang of it, it's very quick. Nice recoil due to the gas operation, quick to tear down and you can use a 20" or a 28" barrel and swap them in about 2mins. Build quality is quite good

Put about 2000 rounds through it and it will cycle fine with #7.5 target loads (1350fps) on my 28" barrel of but if you don't clean the gas ports it will start playing up (as expected) on light loads, obviously heavier loads are fine in both barrels. Certaily one of the better Turkish shotguns

[perentie]

I have the Axor Bush Pig. It has a convenient thumb push on tang where you want it and folds it half as well. Easy to stow. I have been testing slug reloads and can only get 2 reloads with roll crimps then they are too short to cycle well. Bit disapointed there as a Utube I watched said it would cycle short shells. Never mind I think I have eventually found a source for new unprimed shell s. . Said they would be here this week..
This is a black plastic gun though.

[bigpete]

I owned a bushmeister and found it excellent but I'd have preferred the Templeton t2000 if they'd had them in stock at the time. Plenty quick enough

[Wapiti]

Thanks, guys, for your honest input so far.
After watching an Aussie Reviews video on a few of them, he wasn't really impressed by any of them, seemed to favour the Bushmaster with the forend release button, but it wouldn't cycle target loads at all. I don't shoot clays but 7.5, 8 and 9 is great shot for snakes.

Not sure, but maybe he had an earlier one as there is a Gen 2 now. Someone said that they were improved but not sure what that means.
He also could only just force 5 cartridges into the tube, but it didn't seem too well thought out in that area.

[bladeracer]

Thanks, guys, for your honest input so far.
After watching an Aussie Reviews video on a few of them, he wasn't really impressed by any of them, seemed to favour the Bushmaster with the forend release button, but it wouldn't cycle target loads at all. I don't shoot clays but 7.5, 8 and 9 is great shot for snakes.

Not sure, but maybe he had an earlier one as there is a Gen 2 now. Someone said that they were improved but not sure what that means.
He also could only just force 5 cartridges into the tube, but it didn't seem too well thought out in that area.

I think pressure is a potential issue with any of the guns that auto-eject. It's probably possible to tune them I guess but I agree it would be a pain if they don't run cheap bulk loads reliably.

There is a FB group about these things. You could pose the question in there.
Lever release, straight pull and pump actions Australia.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/3272103376450597

[mchughcb]

I've used verny carron, buckmaster, bushmeister, Templeton T2000 for actual hunting.

The best of the pick is the T2000 for me.

[bigpete]

Thanks, guys, for your honest input so far.
After watching an Aussie Reviews video on a few of them, he wasn't really impressed by any of them, seemed to favour the Bushmaster with the forend release button, but it wouldn't cycle target loads at all. I don't shoot clays but 7.5, 8 and 9 is great shot for snakes.

Not sure, but maybe he had an earlier one as there is a Gen 2 now. Someone said that they were improved but not sure what that means.
He also could only just force 5 cartridges into the tube, but it didn't seem too well thought out in that area.

My bushmeister ran target loads. I used it for a seain of bird control where 28gm loads are used almost exclusively. You just need to keep them clean and lubed.
Still think the t2000 would be vastly better than a forend button gun. Never liked that idea

[Wapiti]

Thanks all, for your experience. I've definitely checked out the T2000 on Aussie Reviews and it's great that it functions with target loads. Shows better developmental work than the one I originally thought best.

Hey Big Pete, how come you don't like the forend release idea?
Now, I've only ever used lever and pump shotguns recently, but it just seems to me that when watching these video reviews of button-releases on the action, it looks like the actual process of getting to the action lever/button by the reviewer looks positively awkward? Having to move the trigger grip and twist the wrist?
Whereas with the forend release button idea, your grip and sight picture isn't changed whatsoever.

He reckons he has large hands and the button on the back is awkward for him and he has to shift his shooting hand grip completely, whereas the forend button of the other make is under his thumb. I barely fit 3XL gloves so It's going to be worse for me.

The reason I'm asking is, there's so many designs that are all varying, and there's so much opinion out there. I really don't want to regret the choices and have hate the thing.
The gunshop where I looked at the Gen2 gun wasn't up front about the thing at all and frankly BS'd me, so getting opinions from you guys is gold.

[MG5150]

I picked up a Templeton T2000 a few months back.

It's the first shotgun I've owned, and while I havn't done all that much shooting with it, the ability to fire off 6 shots in 7 seconds is pretty neat.

Very happy with my purchase

[jezzab]

RE: T2000

I dont know if its my hand size (its not huge) but I can touch the bottom of the button and the trigger at the same time. The button only needs a couple of mm of travel to release the bolt, You dont need to move your thumb all the way up to press the center of the button, you can just press/slide your thumb on the bottom edge of the button and keep your wrist in the same position

[Finniss]

I was turned off the buckmaster fore release because I felt I would damage it pushing through scrub, and potentially end up with bits of brush in the lever channel that may cause a malfunction.

[perentie]

Does no one else have Bushpig. I think its great shoots all the bought target loads I have and my slug reloads except the short ones.
The thumb button on the tang is easily pushed without changing the hold and enables it to be fired one handed. I tried this for fun with a sling and laser. Pumps them out well and shoots where the laser is. Lets one hold a spotlight in the other hand.
Trying it now with a scope and thermal attachment. Still working on that.

[Wapiti]

The Bushpig with the hinge-open action?
Has anyone used one enough to see if the pivot point is going to be a point of wear?

[bigpete]

The reason I don't like the forend button is because it FORCES you to place your front hand in a certain position to reload. I personally find that idea useless for a lot of the shooting I've done. As for large hands,work has to buy me the largest gloves available called giant riggers gloves,and I had zero problem whatsoever working the thumb lever on my bushmeister at speed

[Wapiti]

OK, fair enough. So it's not a mechanical issue, but a personal thing, fair enough.

Tell me about the glove size dramas. It's a pain alright. Same as boots, I see some great stuff on super-special, then only to find that I'm just out of luck with trying to get the UK13, US14 size that I am. And some of them are small makes. Doh.

[Fester]

I reckon the T2000 is a clear winner with the action, and for me they are also a great handling light shotty.

They seem to find them fine for duck shooting and would be as quick or quicker than anything bar a semi-auto.

[Wapiti]

Thanks to all, appreciate your input. Got a bit of research coming up. Looks like a trip into Toowoomba is in order.

[perentie]

The Bushpig with the hinge-open action?
Has anyone used one enough to see if the pivot point is going to be a point of wear?

One does not need to use the break action if not folding it for storage or transport. It can be carried just like a normal shottie. I only break it to put it in its bag and behind the seat.Just keep it oiled and should outlive me. Looking at the video of the Templeton ,the action looks the same. Same stripdown and gas ports etc.

[bigpete]

Wasn't there a recall on the bushpig not long ago ,

[bigpete]

https://www.productsafety.gov.au/search ... ms-bushpig

[womble]

Looks like the bush pig gets a big X

Templeton can’t switch out the mag tube. For some dumb reason.

That dumb reason being their was a limit in cat b of 5 in the tube I think ??
But perhaps even dumber was how they opted to remedy that. Nethertheless you could get a gunsmith to sort it so you could fit an 8/9 round tube.

Rule no longer applies because they changed the classification. All are cat a now.

However, for more fun rules, you can’t screw on a mag extension in some states. Victoria being one of them. But you can change the entire tube.
Because f*** knows why

You can tacticalise the Templeton with this cool s**t https://bushtac.com.au/collections/templeton-t2000?srsltid=AfmBOoozKZRvj5woglq4ttvsTsOEIFj5jui8bbVIMEYBlq1qPFKRF0A6
I’d say that’s the magpul stock for the mossberg most likely. Gives you a better hold for the button. Plus you get some mlok slots on the forend for a fleshlight and lazers whatever. Looks good though.

There’s also another to consider, being the sulun arms s2000, which is a benelli m2 copy. Same bolt. Could be good I don’t know. Assuming it’s a true copy of the m2 it would be inertia driven only.
That would be my preference personally, because fast and low maintenance.

But everyone wants a gas system now apparently. f*** knows why they get filthy

And of course the tacosaurus has not earned a mention yet. Supposedly an m4 copy. Which m4 I do not know.
Early ones were dual piston gas and inertia. Fail proof
Later ones dual pistons only.
Good system, superior. Self cleaning to a degree.

[jezzab]

T2000 you can shoot 7 (but a bigger tube would be nice). 5 + 1 and ghost load one.

I'm not selling them, I dont give two s**ts. I'm happy with mine, I can shoot 2 rounds per second if I'm on the ball, yeah it gets dirty quickly, it cycles target loads (I do a lot of clays and I have a lot of Eastern Brown snakes here that are up to my back porch and I would be dead before I drove to town or an ambo got here). So.light loads are nice. Gas operated makes the recoil less on any load

If I want a semi auto I can join a clay target association and get one which I would get a gas operated one anyway.and it would be a different Category and range use only

For what it is, it's pretty good IMHO.

Each to their own, buy whatever blows your hair back or gets the job done

[bladeracer]

Gas operated makes the recoil less on any load.

Yep, very noticeable for somebody like me with a messed up shoulder.

[Wapiti]

All good points, seems there are some options out there and some with some hidden issues.
I'm definitely not after "tacticalising" a shotgun, one only has to look at the stock designs that mount and point fast onto a target, and that's what the world's best clay shooters are using. The only changes are fine tuning angles for an individual's body.

Probably the best accessory stock design comes from Magpul, in their Rem 870 and Mossberg 500 butt designs. Actually, this shape, angle and style is being copied by the Turks on some guns. This is because the angle of the grip is a close fit to the angle of the human hand/wrist when pointing a shotgun up to where the eyes are looking.
They could've designed a pistol grip replacement stock but they didn't, they were working on this principle of pointability in a reasonably indestructible material, not for a tactical look.
Having tried the alternatives on my 870 and on 7600's and 7615's, that's absolutely the result. The pistol grips are not instinctively fast pointing from a body mechanical perspective. The failed ideas purlin above my loading bench area is lined with stocks and accessories from me falling for "marketing in action" BS.

5 shots in the mag is heaps, 7 is a bonus. Probably only time I'd need 7 is if my farmhouse was surrounded by zombies, which aint gonna happen. But as far as the pigs go, they've all bolted out of shotgun range by the time I've got 5 AIMED shots off.
So f**king around with mag tubes is best left for the lounge room.

Probably the only accessories I would fit occasionally would be a tiny red dot, not a big jam jar thing but a pistol sight like a Deltapoint or Zerotech Thrive, something low profile that won't grab seatbelts or inside a sleeping bag.
The other thing would be a tiny, powerful underbarrel pistol torch on a lever mount so it can come off in a flash. Like a Nitecore, probably one with a built in laser. Perfect for around camp or around the house at night. The good lights shine out further than a shotgun has a useful pattern now anyway.

If you have access to an AR style rifle, great. Trying to make something else to sort of copy the looks of one is not on my list of needs.

No extra fore grips, no ridiculous long box mags, big sights, sling points, extra ammo carriers on the stock somewhere full of shells turning the thing into a branch-catching brick.
Hell, the fake walnut furniture I've seen on one in a local shop actually is quite appealing.

Edit: strange predictive text changes that didn't make sense

[bigpete]

All good points, seems there are some options out there and some with some hidden issues.
I'm definitely not after "tacticalising" a shotgun, one only has to look at the stock designs that mount and point fast onto a target, and that's what the world's best clay shooters are using. The only changes are fine tuning angles for an individual's body.

Probably the best accessory stock design comes from Magpul, in their Rem 870 and Mossberg 500 butt designs. Actually, this shape, angle and style is being copied by the Turks on some guns. This is because the angle of the grip is a close fit to the angle of the human hand/wrist when pointing a shotgun up to where the eyes are looking.
They could've designed a pistol grip replacement stock but they didn't, they were working on this principle of pointability in a reasonably indestructible material, not for a tactical look.
Having tried the alternatives on my 870 and on 7600's and 7615's, that's absolutely the result. The pistol grips are not instinctively fast pointing from a body mechanical perspective. The failed ideas purlin above my loading bench area is lined with stocks and accessories from me falling for "marketing in action" BS.

5 shots in the mag is heaps, 7 is a bonus. Probably only time I'd need 7 is if my farmhouse was surrounded by zombies, which aint gonna happen. But as far as the pigs go, they've all bolted out of shotgun range by the time I've got 5 AIMED shots off.
So f**king around with mag tubes is best left for the lounge room.

Probably the only accessories I would fit occasionally would be a tiny red dot, not a big jam jar thing but a pistol sight like a Deltapoint or Zerotech Thrive, something low profile that won't grab seatbelts or inside a sleeping bag.
The other thing would be a tiny, powerful underbarrel pistol torch on a lever mount so it can come off in a flash. Like a Nitecore, probably one with a built in laser. Perfect for around camp or around the house at night. The good lights shine out further than a shotgun has a useful pattern now anyway.

If you have access to an AR style rifle, great. Trying to make something else to sort of copy the looks of one is not on my list of needs.

No extra fore grips, no ridiculous long box mags, big sights, sling points, extra ammo carriers on the stock somewhere full of shells turning the thing into a branch-catching brick.
Hell, the fake walnut furniture I've seen on one in a local shop actually is quite appealing.

Edit: strange predictive text changes that didn't make sense

I like the cut of your jib.

[womble]

To fudd or not to fudd

The choice is yours.

No appearance laws for shotguns in Queensland

[womble]

Given how remarkably naive some above comments are I thought I’d take a minute.

In fairness not all of us have owned guns all our lives including pre Howard. So just a little history here and understanding.

Back in the day. They weren’t called tactical shotguns. Often they were referred to as riot shotguns. Below is the epitome of the traditional look of a gas operated version. A gun i once owned but was dumb enough to hand in.
That looks the part to me. It’s what they once were. What we can no longer own on cat a or b. And it’s a beautiful thing. If you like traditional looks.



The 5 round tube limit. Well we all lived that drama. We got the Adler lever action approved. Eventually after a hard fight.
Then some absolute conservative cuck by the name of Michael Keenan was so far up Scomos asshole he decided to impress him, by banning the import of any lever action shotguns with a capacity of more than 5 rounds. Citing the need for “public safety”

Along comes the succession of straight pulls and lever or button operated.
Still classed as lever actions. And so the mag tube limits still applied.

Finally some common sense and these firearms are now all classed as bolt action shotguns. Cat a.
Didn’t come without a price. Can no longer own 10 round detachable magazines.
But now classed as bolt actions the 5 tube restrictions no longer apply. Of course you can still opt for that if you feel unsafe.

It has nothing to do with lounge rooms, trans kids, Dan Andrews, chem trails , gay frogs, 5g microchips, or even the Jews.
It was just some prick still butthurt we got the Adler through. Tarnishing his party’s image of saving Australia with the toughest gun laws.

The magpul sga stock.
Given the options we have today it’s not the ideal on a gas operated firearm. Particularly a 12 gauge. The hand position acts like a lever under recoil. Assuming you want the firearm for fast follow ups then you don’t want the muzzle rise or at best to mitigate it.
Like any gas operated firearm you want the energy from recoil travelling directly rearward for optimal performance.
It’s not a bad stock. It’s a great stock ergonomically. Just not the best choice in this application.

A sporting clay shotgun doesn’t translate well to shooting pigs on the move or from a vehicle. Considerably awkward.
Barrel length matters.
You can compare clay, skeet, trap shooting for a better understanding. Clay shooting favours a longer barrel.
But for the application case in point, a shorter barrel would be preferable. Because you can swing faster from one target to another and aquire the target faster.
Learn how to use the red dot with both eyes open and you will be a mob of pigs worst nightmare.

[Wapiti]

I have an 870, becausei was after 100% reliability, and experienced all the steal-backs of my privately owned posessions -rifles, pistols and shotguns. Prior I had a Mossberg 590, complete with heatshield, bayonet lug and all the other unnecessary junk on it. It was actually a pain to drag around, it was so heavy.
My wife has a Beretta 1301, which is to me, the epitome of a perfect shotgun.
Sure, we can have them, but we can't take them anywhere off the property they are registered on/for. Which is why I'm after something else that can go with me anywhere, for these troubled times.
Yeah I know people take club handguns out shooting when camping, and some local government employees take work issued firearms out pig shooting out this way, but there's always been "one rule for me, and one for thee" so I'm not risking it, ever.

But there's so many cheaper Turkish shotguns out there, and many have not survived history because they've been rubbish. I don't want to get caught with a dud, and it's not like a vehicle where you can take the bosses for a test drive and cane it.