Shot placement for specific results.

[Die Judicii]

Hi All, I would really like to know what you learned gents consider to be the “sweet spot” to be,, for an instant knock down and WRIGGLE FREE kill on pigs. I’ve had quite a few over the years where on impact they hit the deck and don’t even twitch. And yet others that are solidly hit and are dead,, yet they kick and wriggle violently. Very interested to hear all your views. Cheers,

[bigrich]

Hi All, I would really like to know what you learned gents consider to be the “sweet spot” to be,, for an instant knock down and WRIGGLE FREE kill on pigs. I’ve had quite a few over the years where on impact they hit the deck and don’t even twitch. And yet others that are solidly hit and are dead,, yet they kick and wriggle violently. Very interested to hear all your views. Cheers,

the best sweet spot was in the general chest cavity with a 225 game king in my 358 win i had you had to see it to believe it . massive energy dump
brain shot with a decent caliber is the most likely shot for most people , but the chest cavity is a bigger target with room for error .' i don't take neck shots as i've heard deflection can occur of the vertebrae with some projectiles . with chest shots using a decent caliber with the right projectile is a good start . had one mate using "soft" boat tail 165gn speers in a 30-06, that dumped a lot of energy. so too do 170gn sst's out of 8x57 mauser . i use 150gn sst's in my 308 , it's a good all around load for goats and up. specifically doing a load for pigs i'd probably give the speers a go

generally mate , in my own experience pigs seldom present for perfect shots . with my 308 i try to get shots in the lower chest cavity from front on or quartering away from me angling in behind the front leg . to stop big boars who are high tailing it i've shot high in the arse to try to take out the rear hips . anchors them for a finisher . sst's seem good for that . lots of shrapnel . maybe not humane in some views , but they don't get away and i'm not going into thick scrub looking for a angry wounded pig .

i guess from my perspective i'm not that worried about pigs twitching after they get hit . go for brain shots i guess DJ . cheers mate

[Die Judicii]

Thanks heaps for that input Bigrich, i concur with all that you said , however i differ when it comes to brain shots. Apart from offering less area/size, etc they definitely kill but more.often than not result in a hell of a lot more kicking and thrashing about. Same goes for other animals, especially the bunny. The “nerve” kicking is the trademark signature of brain shot bunnies. As you also said,, a reasonable round low down in the lungs of the pig is the best twitch free kill shot in my books too. Still keen to hear other opinions.

[bigrich]

Thanks heaps for that input Bigrich, i concur with all that you said , however i differ when it comes to brain shots. Apart from offering less area/size, etc they definitely kill but more.often than not result in a hell of a lot more kicking and thrashing about. Same goes for other animals, especially the bunny. The “nerve” kicking is the trademark signature of brain shot bunnies. As you also said,, a reasonable round low down in the lungs of the pig is the best twitch free kill shot in my books too. Still keen to hear other opinions.

i agree mate , i don't use brain shots myself , i know it's the code for some animals ,(you know which ones i mean), but if they move or twitch you end up with a horribly wounded animal with it's nose or ears missing . i aim for the spine between the shoulders front on or from behind, just under the shoulder side on . it's more instant from my experience. with a decent bullet .60 vmax works notably better than 55's in 223 . my 250 savage with a 85bt nosler used to turn the whole chest cavity to jelly with a 2" exit . they definitely die instantly . good little round that one , but it's too big for a varmiter and a bit small for some pigs . nice little round though, punches above it's weight. i got sick of making brass and having donut issues with the case neck , so it went down the road . i understand why the 303-25 was popular as it's the ballistic equivalent of the 250 savage

[Wapiti]

I think different circumstances call for different decisions about where to aim when taking an animal, not the bang,flop "supposed", but not always, look of instant death.

Firstly, the biggest priority is the welfare of the animal.
Whether you're taking it for food, or having to take its life for control purposes, it makes no difference. If that isn't your first priority, my view is the tools for you to do that should be denied to you. Being naive is different from being a weirdo. I've seen enough nutjobs giggling like little girls after shooting an animal in a less-than-ideal spot, usually because of lack of skill, and watching it thrash around desperately trying to figure out what has happened to it.

Because of a background of taking cull animals for consumption, which demands head/high neck shots, no matter what I'm taking that's my first choice every time, no matter what it is. It's actually an automatic thing, and to wonder or mentally dwell on it isn't a consideration. But because of this, it isn't an excuse to use an inadequate cartridge or projectile choice.
No animal is ever predictable, so the cartridge you use to shoot something in the head should also be adequate to shoot it in the chest.

For example, someone might say, I don't head shoot because of the danger I will main the animal if I don't get a good shot (I'm wobbling cos of my ability or a crap rest, my rifle is inaccurate or unsuitable, or the animal moves between the trigger break and the bullet getting there).
So I use a cartridge/projectile combo that, if the animal moves etc, and the bullet doesn't hit the brain-box but off to the side etc, the power of the projectile will smash the skull and instantly shock and mash the brain anyway.
For example, the 223 is picked by so many people for head shooting because it is cheap. Not because it is adequate for anything other than a perfect shot condition, which is never guaranteed.

The fact that the animal jumps around in typical head-shot fashion is immaterial, it is instantly dead, which is not the case with most chest shots. Just because the nervous system is shocked so the muscles are locked, does not mean the animal isn't still conscious and in a state of distress.

So the projectile has to be matched to the cartridge and the ideal aiming point. Experience, or listening to people who have sound advice, shortcuts this.

Personally, I've never had a disaster when high neck shooting an animal that doesn't give me an ideal brain shot. Again, because of the adequate projectile/cartridge choice.
Example, a bigger than usual boar that's rooting around in the ground. It's head is moving around, but It's neck is a great spot. High up on the spine.
Again, the projectile used smashes the top of the spine, even if it's an inch off or so, resulting in an instant death.

And finally, being switched on enough that, within a second, you can size up whether a head shot is ideal or not, and take the next best choice. It won't always be, so being cool enough to make an instant decision, with an adequate set-up, is what you do.
It might even be that you do not take the shot.

EDIT: And with an appearange of a dingo/feral dog that HAS to be dropped as these opportunities don't come up often, a fast chest shot on a dog in the centre chest with an expanding, good frontal-area cartridge shreds it. Dogs aren't toughly constructed for an adequate cartridge/projectile combo.
Again, it's that instant decision about what's the best shot placement with the right gear.

[Die Judicii]

Wapiti,,,,,,,,,,, Oh so true Mate.

[bigrich]

I think different circumstances call for different decisions about where to aim when taking an animal, not the bang,flop "supposed", but not always, look of instant death.

Firstly, the biggest priority is the welfare of the animal.
Whether you're taking it for food, or having to take its life for control purposes, it makes no difference. If that isn't your first priority, my view is the tools for you to do that should be denied to you. Being naive is different from being a weirdo. I've seen enough nutjobs giggling like little girls after shooting an animal in a less-than-ideal spot, usually because of lack of skill, and watching it thrash around desperately trying to figure out what has happened to it.

Because of a background of taking cull animals for consumption, which demands head/high neck shots, no matter what I'm taking that's my first choice every time, no matter what it is. It's actually an automatic thing, and to wonder or mentally dwell on it isn't a consideration. But because of this, it isn't an excuse to use an inadequate cartridge or projectile choice.
No animal is ever predictable, so the cartridge you use to shoot something in the head should also be adequate to shoot it in the chest.

For example, someone might say, I don't head shoot because of the danger I will main the animal if I don't get a good shot (I'm wobbling cos of my ability or a crap rest, my rifle is inaccurate or unsuitable, or the animal moves between the trigger break and the bullet getting there).
So I use a cartridge/projectile combo that, if the animal moves etc, and the bullet doesn't hit the brain-box but off to the side etc, the power of the projectile will smash the skull and instantly shock and mash the brain anyway.
For example, the 223 is picked by so many people for head shooting because it is cheap. Not because it is adequate for anything other than a perfect shot condition, which is never guaranteed.

The fact that the animal jumps around in typical head-shot fashion is immaterial, it is instantly dead, which is not the case with most chest shots. Just because the nervous system is shocked so the muscles are locked, does not mean the animal isn't still conscious and in a state of distress.

So the projectile has to be matched to the cartridge and the ideal aiming point. Experience, or listening to people who have sound advice, shortcuts this.

Personally, I've never had a disaster when high neck shooting an animal that doesn't give me an ideal brain shot. Again, because of the adequate projectile/cartridge choice.
Example, a bigger than usual boar that's rooting around in the ground. It's head is moving around, but It's neck is a great spot. High up on the spine.
Again, the projectile used smashes the top of the spine, even if it's an inch off or so, resulting in an instant death.

And finally, being switched on enough that, within a second, you can size up whether a head shot is ideal or not, and take the next best choice. It won't always be, so being cool enough to make an instant decision, with an adequate set-up, is what you do.
It might even be that you do not take the shot.

EDIT: And with an appearange of a dingo/feral dog that HAS to be dropped as these opportunities don't come up often, a fast chest shot on a dog in the centre chest with an expanding, good frontal-area cartridge shreds it. Dogs aren't toughly constructed for an adequate cartridge/projectile combo.
Again, it's that instant decision about what's the best shot placement with the right gear.

adequate projectile/caliber and sound common sense on shot placement given the circumstance at the time . i agree . you observations of nutjobs giggling over poor shot placement unsettles me . i don't understand peoples lack of empathy . having said that, a bad shot on a dog is justified cause of the damage they cause to livestock , but i wouldn't giggle about it .
i've thought the 6x45 (6mm 223) with a 70-75gn projectile would make a good culling round for the pest control i do in the circumstances i do it in, which is not usually over 200 yards. die243 used one but reckons fast twist 223 shooting heavies is better at long range and less trouble than 6x45 . from my experience with 250 savage /85bt's i reckon the 6x45 would work great for the shots i take . less sectional density , more bore size for better energy dump has proven to be more emphatic to me with chest shots . JMHO , others may agree or disagree
back onto topic of pig shots , i'm considering a 35 whelen build for a comp at my local club. if my old 358win is anything to go by, a 35 whelen would be a pig round "par excellence" for the occasional pig hunting i do . aside from that i'll stick with my 308 and 150gn sst's with chest shots. cheaper by comparison to a whelen

[Wapiti]

We're all on the same track I think..
I'm a bit set in my ways but we do what works for us and our own personal ethics.

You're very into searching for better mousetraps, Bigrich. Sounds like a lot of thought and headscratching going on.
I've painted myself into a corner and don't have much time for that anymore unfortunately.

My calibre choices are pretty boring and simple, what I get to shoot at from choice and necessity leads me to use what works best. Kind of like workshop equipment or cars, mankind is running out of new ideas so packages up a dimensional or paintjob tweak on something and calling it "new and improved"

I can remember so many instances where people have brought out the latest new cartridge/rifle combo in some newly coloured frankengun with those spiral fluted barrels (great way of inducing torsion vibration inconsistency) in some "game changer" 6.5 Penis Replacement Cartridge or Manbun and find the bloke with the 1950's cartridge has the job done before they've realised what's going on.

The times I've stumbled on those old rabbiters' camps and found all the decaying 25 and 32WCF cases, and the brass bases from the old cardboard 12g shells and wondered how today's, or every second day's "new" game changers have actually made a better hunter. Or how they ever survived. The answer was, skill.
Shot placement (suiting the circumstance at hand at the time), like DJ's OP title.

[bigrich]

We're all on the same track I think..
I'm a bit set in my ways but we do what works for us and our own personal ethics.

You're very into searching for better mousetraps, Bigrich. Sounds like a lot of thought and headscratching going on.
I've painted myself into a corner and don't have much time for that anymore unfortunately.

My calibre choices are pretty boring and simple, what I get to shoot at from choice and necessity leads me to use what works best. Kind of like workshop equipment or cars, mankind is running out of new ideas so packages up a dimensional or paintjob tweak on something and calling it "new and improved"

I can remember so many instances where people have brought out the latest new cartridge/rifle combo in some newly coloured frankengun with those spiral fluted barrels (great way of inducing torsion vibration inconsistency) in some "game changer" 6.5 Penis Replacement Cartridge or Manbun and find the bloke with the 1950's cartridge has the job done before they've realised what's going on.

The times I've stumbled on those old rabbiters' camps and found all the decaying 25 and 32WCF cases, and the brass bases from the old cardboard 12g shells and wondered how today's, or every second day's "new" game changers have actually made a better hunter. Or how they ever survived. The answer was, skill.
Shot placement (suiting the circumstance at hand at the time), like DJ's OP title.

yeah , i like a new project , it's a throwback to my youth tweaking muscle car/hot rod type stuff . i tend to look at some of the forgotten classics rather than the new magnum/hyper velocity and reinvented calibres . i've owned quite a few and done some custom builds . my current crop of rifles is my cz452 american , rem 700 222 for field rifle comp at my local range. my late 60's musgrave 98 308 is going to be rebarreled into 7x57 for classic calibre in big game comp . my "working" rifles are a syn/st 12 twist 223 tikka that's a lazer and a B&C stocked 308 tikka . all rifles wear leupolds, 3-9 for 223 and 2.5-8 for 308 . i favour low magnification scopes for hunting , 2-7 is ideal i reckon .
comp rifles have more magnification of coarse . i'm getting twitchy for a new project but . found a english sporterised 98 mil-action at my local gun shop . checked proof marks , it's brno made. possibly a vz24 . at $500 its bloody tempting
think i'll distract myself for a while and mow the yard

[Die Judicii]

yeah , i like a new project , it's a throwback to my youth tweaking muscle car/hot rod type stuff . i tend to look at some of the forgotten classics rather than the new magnum/hyper velocity and reinvented calibres . i've owned quite a few and done some custom builds . my current crop of rifles is my cz452 american , rem 700 222 for field rifle comp at my local range. my late 60's musgrave 98 308 is going to be rebarreled into 7x57 for classic calibre in big game comp . my "working" rifles are a syn/st 12 twist 223 tikka that's a lazer and a B&C stocked 308 tikka . all rifles wear leupolds, 3-9 for 223 and 2.5-8 for 308 . i favour low magnification scopes for hunting , 2-7 is ideal i reckon .
comp rifles have more magnification of coarse . i'm getting twitchy for a new project but . found a english sporterised 98 mil-action at my local gun shop . checked proof marks , it's brno made. possibly a vz24 . at $500 its bloody tempting
think i'll distract myself for a while and mow the yard

Bugger the lawns Mate,,, go back to your LGS,,,,,,,,,, You know you want to,,

[Blr243]

Broadside just above the bend in the front leg I also call this placement THE POINT OF THE SHOULDER Although it may not be a perfect description it’s just my terminology.result Bang flops

[Die Judicii]

Well now I'm wondering,, a fair while ago I dropped a boar that was an instantaneous dead, bang flop, not a single twitch.
Yesterday while out looking for a good spot for bait carcasses, I nailed another one,
Impact point was near as perfectly the same spot, even from the same side and angle, same caliber and projectile.
But,,,,,,,, he didnt go down and instead ran 30 meters and then fell over. (rope was to drag carcass to where I needed it)
Stone dead.

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