338-06

[bigrich]

hey fellas, anyone played with one of these ? if so, what are your opinions ? resize 30-06 brass and load, very accurate with 2206h, 2208, 2209 powder and lighter soft projectiles available for pigs, deer, ect at better prices than 358 cal . it gets me into group 1 "big game" comps with muzzle energy and projectile weight , whilst being a practical hunting rifle, with mild target loads has same/less recoil as 30-06 .

i've been itching for a new project , was looking at the 35 whelen , but i've read the whelen can have headspace issues due to the small shoulder . 338-06 solves that and a couple of barrel makers i'm keen on, maddco, true flite, make this bore size . due to export taxes in germany, lothar walther have gotten expensive . so lets have your opinions

[yoshie]

I looked at 338-06 and 35 Whelen but ended up with a 9.3x62.

[Billo]

I looked at 338-06 and 35 Whelen but ended up with a 9.3x62.

358 Win in a short action does the same thing, 338-06 is a dead cartridge that really didnt do anything new

[wrenchman]

I like both the 338 is no longer offered here in factory made guns the 35 is and there are factory rounds still made for the 35 but if you are hand loading there is no problem

[bigrich]

I looked at 338-06 and 35 Whelen but ended up with a 9.3x62.

i had a 9.3 years ago . i did the big game comp at my local range . i came into a unexpected windfall and did a hunt in the territory . came back to SE QLD and tried my 9.3 for general hunting . bullets for 9.3 are designed for heavy game and pin hole through big pigs at times , so i got rid of it . the whelen has a good range of bullets , but a tiny case shoulder. as a consequence head spacing and accuracy can be a issue . 338-06 has grabbed my attention as i reload . making cases is simple and component availability is good . speer and hornady make some soft projectiles for lighter game , so as a dual purpose comp,hunting rifle it's got my attention . best "soft" bullet for the 9.3 is a 270 speer yoshie. accuracy with 55gn of 2208 was exceptional

[bigrich]

I looked at 338-06 and 35 Whelen but ended up with a 9.3x62.

358 Win in a short action does the same thing, 338-06 is a dead cartridge that really didnt do anything new

well , i guess that depends on your views and uses mate . i had a 358win and their a great cartridge under 150 meters with a 225 game king or 358 xtp pistol bullets trajectory and energy drop off after 200 but
in my case mild loads with 338-06 get me into a comp and the lighter available bullets would hit game hard when hunting. they'd be extra dead ! so this cal has a dual purpose for me . i'd prefer a whelen , but i think the 338-06 has a better case and better ballistics at longer ranges .
look up chuck hawks expanded ballistic chart . the 338-06 has better ballistics by quite a margin at 300 compared to the 35 whelen . a lot more energy than the 358win , the two don't compare ballistically . your right about the 338-06 dying off . except for in the US it's not really known anymore . i'll have to make my own brass. hornady, norma and a few others make proper head stamped brass, but it's unavailable in oz at the moment

[bigrich]

I like both the 338 is no longer offered here in factory made guns the 35 is and there are factory rounds still made for the 35 but if you are hand loading there is no problem

i've read lots about the 338-06 on US forums and it's highly regarded . medium bores are a niche thing but.
the answer to my 35 whelen case issue would be to improve it, but no smith locally has a reamer , and it could create feed issues . resizing from standard 30-06 to 338 isn't much of a jump . saw some loads and accuracy posts on US forums with virgin resized 30-06 to 338 brass and it was impressive .

[bigpete]

35 whelen has headspace problems ?

[bigrich]

35 whelen has headspace problems ?

so i've read pete . i take everything with a grain of salt , but the whelen doesn't have much of a shoulder . supposedly it's a more finnicky cartridge with case resizing to get the head space right . supposedly
you had a whelen i think , how did you find it with accuracy and case sizing ? were you resizing 30-06 cases ? 9.3x62 and 358win are a little straighter in the case wall giving them more shoulder for headspace . the 358win and 9.3 i had were very accurate . i read on a yank forum there was a batch of rem factory ammo that didn't head space correctly in certain brands of rifle . i'm probably overthinking it, but i do pay attention to case design from a technical point of view . i'm thinking the 338-06 has a better shoulder , and better ballistics with projectiles than the whelen . look up chuck hawks expanded ballistic chart and do a comparison . interesting stuff, especially energy levels as range increases . as a dual purpose comp/hunting cartridge i'm think the 338-6 suits my uses . i've been itching for a new project for a while , i'm thinking this is worth doing . finances have been up and down which is why i've been hesitant to get the ball rolling

[bigpete]

Mine was astoundingly accurate and super easy to make cases just ran 30-06 cases through the 35 whelen dies and job was done,no mess no fuss. I shot it with iron sights mostly and could shoot sub inch groups at 70m with them, I only used a scope a handful of times on the rifle and was rewarded with similar groups from further away. I've never heard of the 35 whelen having head space issues, the 400 whelen is the one I've heard of being a potential problem.

[bigrich]

Mine was astoundingly accurate and super easy to make cases just ran 30-06 cases through the 35 whelen dies and job was done,no mess no fuss. I shot it with iron sights mostly and could shoot sub inch groups at 70m with them, I only used a scope a handful of times on the rifle and was rewarded with similar groups from further away. I've never heard of the 35 whelen having head space issues, the 400 whelen is the one I've heard of being a potential problem.

sounds like your whelen was well sorted mate . if you do some googling you'll get some results about whelen head space issues . it's not overly common however . i've decided to go with 338-06 , i bought some new redding dies online this morning so i'm committed . or should i be committed .....

mauser 98 or tang safety ruger 77, what do you reckon pete ?

[bigpete]

Ooh i dunno. I love the mauser 98 but I love the idea of the tang safety,would be like using a shotgun. Guess it would depend is the ruger controlled feed and 5 round floorplate mag like the mauser ?

[bigrich]

Ooh i dunno. I love the mauser 98 but I love the idea of the tang safety,would be like using a shotgun. Guess it would depend is the ruger controlled feed and 5 round floorplate mag like the mauser ?

the early tang safety are a push feed with a mauser style claw extractor and a piston ejector . 5 shot . by all accounts a slick strong action . i do like mauser 98's though

[bigrich]

righto , i've thrown down the gauntlet , purchased a excellent condition (supposedly ) ruger tang safety in 270win as a donor rifle for this build . rang my smith and he's keen on the idea, has a 338-06 reamer too . reckons every one he's built people have loved them . bit more research and a barrel will be next . just gotta wait for the funds to build back up

[Wapiti]

338 Win Mag doesn't do anything for you Rich?

[bigrich]

338 Win Mag doesn't do anything for you Rich?

when i was in the territory, i asked the locals and the very experienced guides i was up there with, if you had to have one gun to do it all, what would it be ? almost all said 338 win mag . however in my case i'm looking for a gun to get me into the big game comp as well as being a practile back up hunting rifle for south east/western QLD. so the minimum requirement is a 225gn projectile and 2900ft pd of muzzle energy . i've done the math and a mild load with a 225gn projectile at 2450fps should get me there with a mild powder charge around 49-50gn of 2208 . so mild velocity so the barrel doesn't heat up too quick and affect accuracy with mild recoil for a medium bore . suits the comp side of things and there's good projectile choice . box of 225gn speer are about $60 for 50 . not too bad . so comp wise it's a better option than the win mag ,lot less recoil, and i only need standard large rifle primers
as for hunting there's some good lighter projectiles , 200-225gn speer and hornady sst are my first choice , but i've just discovered woodleigh are making 180-200gn round nose and protected points for the 338 federal and 338-06 at their velocities , effective down to 2000fps .if i ever head north again a stout load with a premium 250gn projectile should do the job . so i think that hand loaded the 338-06 has a lot to offer for my comp AND hunting . i could down load the win mag i suppose, but making brass from 30-06 and using standard primers is a plus i think . rebarreling to 338-06 rather than go through scrutiny over a pta for a 338 win mag is probably better too
i like a project , it's a throwback to my petrol head days
once i get this 270 ruger i'll chuck a scope on it and put some rounds through it , seated and offhand to make sure it fits and functions to suit me before i get it barreled . be a wait for a barrel anyway . it's a bit of a gamble buying a gun off the net , but i'm trying to diversify my collection . it'd be boring if i owned all mauser 98's or all tikkas i've checked rugers out in shops before and think the stock fit will be good . cheers

[Wapiti]

Well, everybody has their reasons.
And personally I have this opinion that if you bought a cartridge, you buy it for its potential and how that suits you. Whether it's adequate or not, does the job or just floats your boat.
If you want lower performance for some reason, that's your choice and again why buy the 338WM when it's too much cartridge for your personal circumstances.
Pointless loading something down really, but then, I don't get people making a choice based on whatever reason then loading the hell out of it trying to up its performance. Overperformance is never regretted, at least in my head.

I am playing with the idea of a 338 on the 300RUM case. Yes I know about the 338RUM but it's the shortened 300 case for some reason. Not going to have the ridiculous brass costs of the 338LAP brass but truly monstrous velocity and I can feed it copper projectiles. The 300RUM is the king of 300's for a light carry rifle and is an incredible long range cartridge.
I just haven't taken the step to order a blank and a reamer yet. As if I need another project on the farm.
TSE are almost a year wait now I believe for a blank?

[bigrich]

Well, everybody has their reasons.
And personally I have this opinion that if you bought a cartridge, you buy it for its potential and how that suits you. Whether it's adequate or not, does the job or just floats your boat.
If you want lower performance for some reason, that's your choice and again why buy the 338WM when it's too much cartridge for your personal circumstances.
Pointless loading something down really, but then, I don't get people making a choice based on whatever reason then loading the hell out of it trying to up its performance. Overperformance is never regretted, at least in my head.

I am playing with the idea of a 338 on the 300RUM case. Yes I know about the 338RUM but it's the shortened 300 case for some reason. Not going to have the ridiculous brass costs of the 338LAP brass but truly monstrous velocity and I can feed it copper projectiles. The 300RUM is the king of 300's for a light carry rifle and is an incredible long range cartridge.
I just haven't taken the step to order a blank and a reamer yet. As if I need another project on the farm.
TSE are almost a year wait now I believe for a blank?

waiting for a barrel these days is the biggest problem with projects . heard yesterday a few key fellas from maddco are on holidays , at least a month before any more production . i've got a barrel option i'm looking into , i'll let you know if it bears fruit. i've been rethinking my choice of a ruger , my smith warned me the cheap cast ally trigger guard and floor plate can break . replacements in oz are non existent . the all steel mauser 98 aren't known for breaking
damned if ya do , damned if ya don't . no such thing as a perfect rifle i guess .

[Wapiti]

I reckon there is mate, but it's not popular opinion. But I'm looking at things from a different perspective, that's for sure. Forum has shown that we are a different set of users to most.
Last barrel I got from TSE last year was about 9 months? More probably. Even paid fully on order to try and speed things up...
I still am gobsmacked with the last SS .30 barrel I got from them. not a trace of copper fouling in a barrel I have ever seen before, even after 100's of rounds and no care whatsoever. Top loads too. I'm sure there are heaps who don't believe that but it's their loss.
I hear they don't fit barrels anymore, but if it gets more tubes out there to customers, all the better.

[bigrich]

I reckon there is mate, but it's not popular opinion. But I'm looking at things from a different perspective, that's for sure. Forum has shown that we are a different set of users to most.
Last barrel I got from TSE last year was about 9 months? More probably. Even paid fully on order to try and speed things up...
I still am gobsmacked with the last SS .30 barrel I got from them. not a trace of copper fouling in a barrel I have ever seen before, even after 100's of rounds and no care whatsoever. Top loads too. I'm sure there are heaps who don't believe that but it's their loss.
I hear they don't fit barrels anymore, but if it gets more tubes out there to customers, all the better.

that's interesting, if they don't fit barrels their not do gunsmithing either . as you say it might speed things up . i've heard great things about tse . they got bought out a little while ago, new owners, this might be the reason in no longer fitting barrels

[Wapiti]

That's only what others have said who asked them for a fitted barrel, could be different now.
Very frustrating when a business gets an extreme demand, and you either haven't the room, the gear or the skilled personnel.

Gear costs big money, then you need someone on it full time to make it pay. Gunsmithing lathes are reasonably economical though, if you don't buy anything bigger than you need for that job. 10-15K for a great new Taiwanese lathe. Then another <10k for all the tooling and maybe taper-turning attachment extra.

Maybe we should get into it?
No bodgy jobs ever, but people whinge when they gotta pay for the time in set up to get a job perfectly straight and stress free. Second thoughts...

[Billo]

TSE seem to be pretty quick these days, I placed an order for a profiled 338 stainless barrel back in July, was told 3 months, paid the balance of the $$ just after 2 months and thought I'd follow up with a call to see what the time frame was, the barrel turned up just inside 3 months with a nice lapped bore. Cant fault the service and will use again.

[bigrich]

TSE seem to be pretty quick these days, I placed an order for a profiled 338 stainless barrel back in July, was told 3 months, paid the balance of the $$ just after 2 months and thought I'd follow up with a call to see what the time frame was, the barrel turned up just inside 3 months with a nice lapped bore. Cant fault the service and will use again.

thanks for the info billo . how does your barrel shoot ?

[Billo]

TSE seem to be pretty quick these days, I placed an order for a profiled 338 stainless barrel back in July, was told 3 months, paid the balance of the $$ just after 2 months and thought I'd follow up with a call to see what the time frame was, the barrel turned up just inside 3 months with a nice lapped bore. Cant fault the service and will use again.

thanks for the info billo . how does your barrel shoot ?

only running it in atm but 3 shot groups have been a consistent 7mm or sub 0.5moa, I went with a fast 1:7 twist to cover the subsonic bases.

I think it could even shoot tighter once run in and me concentrating

I've found the TSE barrels to be more accurate than the Swan barrels if I was being honest

My last Swan chamber had some awful ****** chatter marks

[Wapiti]

Good to hear, they must've caught up heaps on last year then.
But I can't think of anything else I would want. Always the way.

[Billo]

Good to hear, they must've caught up heaps on last year then.
But I can't think of anything else I would want. Always the way.

Swan was a disaster, he took more than 15 months, just a straight up cluster fuk and dishonest

[Wapiti]

Yeah right, didn't Swan get a contract for some locally made 223 frankenguns to supply their barrels? I believe it was because he could supply quickly. These guns haven't performed well either, allegedly.
It's unfortunate because all this is confusing, but I have no doubt you have had a bad run. Appreciate the heads up, because that would be a terribly disappointing outcome.

[bigrich]

Good to hear, they must've caught up heaps on last year then.
But I can't think of anything else I would want. Always the way.

Swan was a disaster, he took more than 15 months, just a straight up cluster fuk and dishonest

mate , i won't touch them with a barge pole . if i see a second hand rifle with one of their barrels i put it back . years ago i had some accurate barrels , but there was always some sort of stuff up with the job. the last gun they built for me was in 358win . once sorted , excellent barrel . but the chamber had "chattering" in it , and the bolt closed with no resistance at all on a "no-go" chamber gauge . i'm not the only one with this oversize chamber/head space issue from them either . i had to spend more money at another smith to get it sorted . last barrel i used on a build was a copper mine , and really spotty accuracy . had it bore scoped , "hand lapped" my @rse !
i could mention a few more stories from dissatisfied customers, and expand in more detail on other issues my 358 had , but i've already said enough

[Wapiti]

Chattering, bugger me. From rushing the job.
Even if you didn't realise that, as the average punter might not (as they would be hoping... the customer won't know!) If someone fitted a barrel with that much headspace then that is totally unacceptable and unforgiveable. Dangerous! Anyone performing professional work would never let this be a reflection on their workmanship and should never be presented to a customer.
Appreciate you guys informing the rest of us.

[bigpete]

Good to hear, they must've caught up heaps on last year then.
But I can't think of anything else I would want. Always the way.

Swan was a disaster, he took more than 15 months, just a straight up cluster fuk and dishonest

mate , i won't touch them with a barge pole . if i see a second hand rifle with one of their barrels i put it back . years ago i had some accurate barrels , but there was always some sort of stuff up with the job. the last gun they built for me was in 358win . once sorted , excellent barrel . but the chamber had "chattering" in it , and the bolt closed with no resistance at all on a "no-go" chamber gauge . i'm not the only one with this oversize chamber/head space issue from them either . i had to spend more money at another smith to get it sorted . last barrel i used on a build was a copper mine , and really spotty accuracy . had it bore scoped , "hand lapped" my @rse !
i could mention a few more stories from dissatisfied customers, and expand in more detail on other issues my 358 had , but i've already said enough

Makes Sprinter sound pretty bloody good really....