Speed, man...

[Wapiti]

Was checking the sight-in on the paddock rifle I do runs with the new roo/pig/deer pro shooter. He likes me to take a rifle to take the opportunities on the far left of his 'Cruiser.
I wanted to use some ammo and get some more empties for my pet loads for other rifles so fired 3-shots to check zero but I set up the Chrony to see how truthful Winchester is on their stated speed.
People who use Chrony's a bit will know that nearly in all instances, ammo makers BS royally and their ammo very rarely gets near their quoted speed i.e. they lie and use long-for-calibre barrels, so they get higher speeds.
But what's amazing here is that this rifle has a 20" barrel, nice and handy especially for ute shooting. man, that's quick! You will also see the consistency of the measured speeds.

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[Wapiti]

I bought 3 x 200rd boxes of this ammo when Cleavers had it for $29/20, now he has it on special still for I think, under $33/20.
I bought it because these Sierra projectiles are devastating in the field and shoot tiny groups. No way can I get my handloads this fast.
I wonder if they use their own powder, 748?

[Finniss]

That is surprisingly quick. I would have been impressed if they just made it to advertised velocity in that short barrel.

Was it a stinking hot day? I guess you would have mentioned if you spotted any pressure signs.

I had a few different factory winchester breeds and cartridges show pressure signs so stopped using them.

Your results are giving me an itch to go buy some though...

[Wapiti]

Yes mate, some pressure signs.
I did see some empty cases with a slight ejector circle on the case head, and the primer is cratered where it slightly pushed the firing pin back a little.
It was about 30'C, pretty windy as we were under a big storm head about to hit and I was rushing to fit the session in.

It certainly is loaded pretty hot. I can't shoot it in one of our autoloaders because for some reason it discs the primers when extracting and fills my face with gas.
In other words, the primer struck area blows out and the little round disc finds it's way into the bolt etc.
But they cannot be loaded to the pressures that bolt actions can routinely take.
No such problem with the bolt actions. I've also tried it in a 24" barrel Howa varmint in which it shoots almost 3300fps, which is f***en insane. No issues with cases looking hot in that newer rifle though.

I was trying some handloads in another rifle with 45gns 2206H and the same projectile, these fired 10 mins later showed low 2700 speeds average which is normal, so it's not a chronograph issue.
Might have to break out the stash of 748.

Anyone else chronying this ammo, would be interested in what you find as well.

[Finniss]

Thanks Wapiti. Not a super hot day at all then.

I had some primers blow shooting camels in 44ish degrees a dozen or so years back. So I'm always curious about winchester factory ammo results

That experience and some others made me a bit timid of their powders despite the higher velocities over adi.

[Wapiti]

Yeah, I'm going to try it when doing a run with the pro shooter who's just come out and had me sign his paperwork off to keep it all legal.
I bet I'm right in thinking though, that the projectiles will be going way too fast for anything but head shots, as I know these projectiles well at 2800fps, let alone 400fps faster. But headshots only out here as we are shooting for premium "paddock to plate" and restaurant customers.
"Wild Caught" according to the menus their customers order from

I have 12 pounds of Win 748 powder that I've been keeping since we could buy up the last stuff that came in here, as well as the same of 760, WXR, 296 etc.
I believe that these cartridges have 748 in them but I'm only guessing, from my old data 748 blew 2208 into the weeds as the speed king in 308 by 150fps.

[Wapiti]

Adding to that crazy speed in those factory loads, I thought I'd compare the same rifle, chrony and projectiles using ADI powders, 2206H and 2208.
Some members here might get something out of it too.
First. the old rifle. Shortened tight chamber done by me, barrel is a TSE 1-10" No.5 profile. Range to the target was 110m. Barrel hasn't been cleaned for about 300 rounds.

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First load was 47gn/06H, which was in this rifle, pretty close to max and any hotter would be not a great idea for an every-temperature all-year round load.
The spread and standard deviation is excellent, showing a very good point in the load development (A reason why a Chrony is a great tool).
Very good velocity for thios weight projy in a 308 with a 20" barrel, but way behind that factory load!

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Next was the 2208. 48 grains is 2 grains under max, but in these thick ADI cases, 48gns fills the case to the top of the neck so I didn't want to go higher until I tried this first. Pressure signs are good, but I will need a LONG drop tube to get any more powder in.

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And here's the target at 110m. You definitely can see how the super tight std. dev. and velocity spread in the 2206 load shows as a better group.
The chrony results proven on the target.
But still WAY under the Winchester factory load, but as I mentioned in an earlier post, speed is not the number one factor.
I still have to try another grain of 2208 and definitely need to burn some Win 748 and see what difference that makes.

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A good distraction from fencing in the late arvo.

[Wapiti]

Getting there, but not close to those insane factory loads.

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The 49gn/2208 load found a node, and made a tiny cloverleaf at 110m. But sticky bolt lift and ejector marks, so not a working use load.
I have some loads with 748, which is a Winchester powder. I will try them next when a late arvo allows.

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[Wapiti]

So, it looks like Winchester 748 powder could easily be what's in those factory 135gn loads.
Using 51gns (1gn under Uncle Nick's max listed) we have over 3200fps, although the load is way too hot to use.
This was at 5.45pm, temp was 28'C.

First I tried 46.5gns 2206H, which cracked the 3000fps mark which is supposed to be the realm of the 125 and 130gn 308 loads, if you're lucky. This is using the Sierra 135gn hollowpoint Gameking varmint, as are all these loads.

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Next, came the 51gns of 748. Again, supposedly 1gn below max but as they say, every gun is different, approach max loads carefully.

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Now the target. Experienced reloaders who study chronograph data relating to spread and std. dev. will see, there are spots earlier in the test above somewhere where these numbers are excellent and within a few fps. These should be the best loads for consistency and in theory, "accuracy".
Other previous loads using these projectiles with ADI powder gave better results. The sample size needs to be larger though.

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Have fun.
I wonder how 49 or 50gns of 748 would shoot.