"Hearing" welfare of Gundogs.

[Die Judicii]

I read an article in "The Report" magazine from SSAA Qld about Gundogs which has prompted this thread.
I will explain to start with however,,,
I am 72 yo,, Hunted with firearms since I was 12 yo,, but never owned a gundog nor had any experience with them.
That being said, can anyone enlighten me what, if anything, is done to protect the dogs hearing ?

OH&S says we must all look after our own hearing,, but what about our ever faithful companions the dawgs ?

I hunt alone, so don't have contact with like minded shooters eg. Duck Hunters to ask.

With the last few dogs that I've owned I've been very mindfull of the detrimental effect gunfire can have, and therefore are not subjected to it for that very reason,, I do NOT take dog/s with me when I go hunting.

The wake up call that I had prior to now, was a perfectly good dog that I had, that went 99% deaf at a reasonably young age, due to me not thinking of the effects of industrial deafness.
That particular dog was my constant companion when I had my own engineering business both in the workshop and out field,,, and was subjected to all the noises of an engineering workshop that I did not even think about until it was too late.

So what if anything is/can be done these days to protect dogs hearing,, considering that theirs is even more sensitive than ours.

[womble]

There are a couple of products for gun dogs on the market.
Ear plugs or muffs.

Owned a lot of dogs and still do. Guaranteed ear muffs aren’t staying on in the field. And if you shoved something in their ears it would effect their equilibrium and I doubt they’d react well to that.

Never seen anyone use anything.
Never seen people hunting deer with hounds use anything. But the dogs are freaking loud anyway. As they’re bred to be.
And they’re not really at your side.
Pig dogs don’t tend to live long enough to make that sort of investment.

Interesting pondering nonetheless. I wouldn’t have given it a second thought when I was younger.
Now own a rescue dog that’s partially blind so I don’t take her bush. Because I don’t want to damage her hearing.

Honestly think the best idea would be a suppressor. And I would apply for one on those grounds if I used gun dogs. I’d apply for an exemption from the Commissioner.
Because that would make the best common sense,
I think if you were a well established member of club that’s very actively involved in such activities and could demonstrate that, then it’s a reasonable request.

The technology exists and is available. Totally unnecessary to expose the dog to that noise nowadays. I would expect a reasonable response.

Just between you and me. A scent hound could be blind as a bat and deaf as a post and still be a great scent hound.
That’s all they rely on. Scent. That’s all they need.
Don’t forget to include a photo of your dog.

[Wapiti]

We can't get suppressors, because people don't have the gee in them enough to get something they say they need. They leave it up to everyone else to do it for them, so nothing happens for the ones of us that have a go. Like it or not, people will whinge online but then not take part in the push to do anything about it officially.
But suppressors STILL WILL NOT drop the Db level exposed to dogs sitting next to you down to a level that will not hurt their super-sensitive hearing permanantly.
There are commonly available products if people do care about their dogs.
And they work. I find people who take dogs with them shooting where the dogs sit beside them, with their super-sensitive ears, when not protected, are despicable people.
There are "Mutt Muffs" and "Rex Spexs" earmuffs and goggles. So there IS NO EXCUSE.
They stem from America, where outdoorsmen take their dogs everywhere, especially in bush-planes, hence the goggles too that they make.
But my dogs wear either type of muffs, and I carry sets on my SxS and my dogs wear them when we go out with the firearms.

Here are Rex Specs ones, which I prefer, look them up online, there are a few suppliers here in Aus and the US company also sends them worldwide. As far as I am concerned, if you find the price too expensive to protect your best, most faithful friends, you are a prick and should not take your dogs out with guns. You can protect yourself, they cannot, they rely on an owner who gives a toss about them to look after their health - their ears are WAY more susceptible to damage from gunfire than our ears are.
Dusty wearing his well used Rex Spex this morning. The velcro straps on the ear covering bits are to locate their goggles if someone attached them too.

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[Wapiti]

Just between you and me. A scent hound could be blind as a bat and deaf as a post and still be a great scent hound.
That’s all they rely on. Scent. That’s all they need.
Don’t forget to include a photo of your dog.

Mate, gotta pull you up here. That's bullsh*t.
FFS I can only imagine the poor dog who's owner thinks that way about their hearing, and the incredible pain 160Db would inflict on them as it destroys their hearing from an owner with that opinion.
Are you for real?

[womble]

Very for real.
Ive seen both deaf and blind dogs manage just fine.
Dogs live in a world of scent.
Am I condoning making your dog deaf. Nope.
Never even insinuated as much.
To the contrary i clearly stated I don't take my dog with me.
That's just you to trying to start your usual bulls**t, putting words in other people's mouths. Making false assertions about people. Doing what you do best.

[womble]

There's half a dozen reasons already in Vic for an exemption and I think that's a reasonable ask. We're allowed to hunt ducks in Victoria

[Fester]

It's a bit like the authorities who will just rule it out as ridiculous, asking for suppressors to help protect their dogs hearing.
They don't even want to know about all the old deaf shooters.

I am not a fan of pig dogging, but it is a legal activity and not my place to say anything against it.
Lots of the dogs would be in front or close to the shot so I'm not surprised at so many deaf dogs.
I once asked a dog hunter and he replied yeah, had some go deaf.

A deer pointer would be great and very productive but I will just stick to shooting by myself and waiting longer between drinks.

[Die Judicii]

Thanks for that info about the “RexSpecs” Wapiti. I reckon i’ll get one for my current dog, although I don’t take her hunting, she’s none too keen on thunder, and they may well help. I googled them, and as per usual was disappointed to see the statement “located in Helsinki” but then,,,, “country of origin China”. Thanks to our series of governments, we are rarely if ever able to get away from products that are spewed out of China. I must agree with Womble though on his comment relating to suppressors. Sure, they may not be really effective in sound reduction,, but a little is far better than nothing.

[Wapiti]

Very for real.
Ive seen both deaf and blind dogs manage just fine.
Dogs live in a world of scent.
Am I condoning making your dog deaf. Nope.
Never even insinuated as much.
To the contrary i clearly stated I don't take my dog with me.
That's just you to trying to start your usual bulls**t, putting words in other people's mouths. Making false assertions about people. Doing what you do best.

You wrote it mate. I quoted your usual ramblings. I just state the obvious.
I also don't comment without having actually done something personally. You might try it sometime.

[Wapiti]

Yeas it's a shame that so much is made in China now.
Pretty sure the ones I bought said made in USA when I got them years ago.
There's a section where you get given tips where to measure your dogs head, from those measurements a suggestion is made as to what size to buy to suit your dog.
I found it to be spot on, for my dogs anyway.

On the suppressor thing, you know I agree they are an essential safety tool, yes I'd like them legal too but until then, they are unobtainable for me.

Apparently dogs have hearing 4x to 7x more likely to suffer irreparable damage from gunshots than we are, and with the best suppressors STILL only dropping sound to around the 135-140 Db level, it's still WAY too high to use suppressors and think your dogs, or you, aren't damaging your hearing.
OK, someone will now do a Google search to try and discredit my figures by a few Db, go ahead, makes no difference to my explanation.
Good earmuffs offering a 30Db drop in sound levels, WITH as suppressor is still 110+ Db which is too high for dogs ears.

[Fester]

The NSW conservation hunting bill has shown what they thought of suppressors.
Walter Mikac replied that we will want flame throwers and bulletproof vests.
That was his second attempt after just stating it sounds more like jungle warfare.

What these weird statements have to do with hunting is well beyond my comprehension, but all the other statements about the govt bowing to NRA-type strong gun lobbies were just as ridiculous.
Do they mean the SSAA lol.

Most dogs likely need training to handle gunfire.
Some start with 22s and take them to the range, starting back at the car park.

Our govt's must be at the next level of stupid, or the lying is just their accepted norm to not follow the rest of the world regarding suppressors as common courtesy.
I imagine they expect guns gone before they are forced to let shooters use the James Bond Pft,pft things to shoot people in the dark.
I don't think the crims shooting each other even want to use them. If they did, they would as they don't use the licensing systems.

[Die Judicii]

The NSW conservation hunting bill has shown what they thought of suppressors.
Walter Mikac replied that we will want flame throwers and bulletproof vests.
That was his second attempt after just stating it sounds more like jungle warfare.

What these weird statements have to do with hunting is well beyond my comprehension, but all the other statements about the govt bowing to NRA-type strong gun lobbies were just as ridiculous.
Do they mean the SSAA lol.

Most dogs likely need training to handle gunfire.
Some start with 22s and take them to the range, starting back at the car park.

Our govt's must be at the next level of stupid, or the lying is just their accepted norm to not follow the rest of the world regarding suppressors as common courtesy.
I imagine they expect guns gone before they are forced to let shooters use the James Bond Pft,pft things to shoot people in the dark.
I don't think the crims shooting each other even want to use them. If they did, they would as they don't use the licensing systems.

Remember how PETA wasin regards to supposed "animal cruelty" etc ???

Maybe its time that they were unleashed and aimed at the government, for being cruel to animals and people alike for not condoning suppressors.

[Wapiti]

We've made a number of submissions setting out examples of the positive use of suppressors in Qld as a tool.
One of the many was the health and welfare of farm dogs we use wherever we go, and that all the positives of cutting muzzle blast of high-powered fireams apply to them, more so the negatives especially their super sensitive hearing and the reported effects of sound concussion on their other senses and nervous system.
I certainly never made it all about dogs, but they were included in one of my bullet point facts.

In one email response I got from the Qld WPHS management was that my point about suppressors bringing down sound pressure levels for our working dogs was, and I'm paraphrasing, "dogs and other farm animals are not part of the consideration nor responsibility of WHSQ so therefore will not be considered seriously to be included in your submission"
That's the kind of university bullsh*t you expect from bureaucrats.

I pushed everyone to make submissions, no matter how simple or extensive, I provided the email address for sending them and for shooters to not just post up stuff on forums and facebook... where nobody looks at them in the echo chamber.
We needed, and still need, numbers here, particularly people who shoot in the bush whether casually or professionally. We got more people frightened of being labelled troublemakers and got plenty of reasons why people were scared of identifying themselves to officialdom. As if the government don't already know you have guns - they know exactly what you have stashed away.

As far as I am concerned, we didn't get enough official submissions set in. Plenty would race out and buy a suppressor if they became legal but will leave it up to someone else to stick their necks out. So we get the result we (not me) deserve and expect.

My dogs will continue to wear the hearing protection we've got for them, because we care about their welfare even if others couldn't give a flying f***..

[womble]

Very for real.
Ive seen both deaf and blind dogs manage just fine.
Dogs live in a world of scent.
Am I condoning making your dog deaf. Nope.
Never even insinuated as much.
To the contrary i clearly stated I don't take my dog with me.
That's just you to trying to start your usual bulls**t, putting words in other people's mouths. Making false assertions about people. Doing what you do best.

You wrote it mate. I quoted your usual ramblings. I just state the obvious.
I also don't comment without having actually done something personally. You might try it sometime.

Try it sometime lol.
Lifetime of hunting with dogs. Which is why I commented. Never seen anyone put hearing protection on their dogs. Never ever in my life.
My father had Brittany spaniels for ducks. Grew up with that.
Teens, twenties ran pig dog’s western Qld, lived on cattle stations. Used to do that for 3 months a year every year.
Had lurchers and snap dogs for rabbits and foxes in Vic till it was outlawed. Still popular in western Victoria including terriers.
Been on hound hunts with beagles and harriers in recent years in Vic.
Done it all. Spotlighting with dogs, tracking. Had dogs compete at obedience trials. Even had pig dogs that visited old people’s homes at one point. Currently got a rescue American bulldog mix that sits with kids in courtrooms to comfort them.

As I said. I don’t keep hunting dogs anymore, just pets. And I don’t take them shooting particularly because I don’t want them exposed to gunshots.
Also because you can never be sure where the 1080 is anymore.

[Wapiti]

You sound like Bruce Ruxton mate.
"I've been in 32 World Wars, and I never felt the need for... blah blah"

Just because people are not aware of something that, if it were themselves or their kids ears getting blown out, doesn't mean their ignorance or refusal to accept something just as important for their animal mates isn't warranted.
Especially now you know that these things exist, and it's only ego making an argument.
I DGAF what excuses or backpedalling you feel the need to do.
DJ obviously is a decent human being, cares deeply for his dog.

[womble]

Jesus you’re a dumb c***.
I pointed out that they existed in the first reply to the topic.
People have been hunting with dogs and firearms for about a thousand years. They never wore earmuffs.
If you’d ever hunted with dogs you’d know your new woke doggy earmuffs are not staying on that dog.
How the f*** are you supposed to call your dog back.

[No1_49er]

I get the feeling from your "argument" womble, that the dumb c**t here is you.
Maybe people have been hunting with dogs and firearms for a very long time, and not provided hearing protection for their (now, hearing impaired) dogs. Because it hadn't previously been available.
Similarly, when I was in the military cadets, hearing protection was non-existent. Did I like it. Absolutely not. Am I now hearing impaired. Damned right I am. But since the advent of hearing protection, I've made damned sure that I always use it at every opportunity - even if it's only mowing the bloody lawn!
What a stupid effing argument to suggest that "woke doggy earmuffs" wont stay on. Or, that a dog is somehow rendered deaf by the application of the muffs. Just as I am not rendered deaf by my own use of earmuffs.
Go and have a cup of tea and a lie down.

[Wapiti]

Jesus you’re a dumb c***.
I pointed out that they existed in the first reply to the topic.
People have been hunting with dogs and firearms for about a thousand years. They never wore earmuffs.
If you’d ever hunted with dogs you’d know your new woke doggy earmuffs are not staying on that dog.
How the f*** are you supposed to call your dog back.

Mate you're a full on tool. You paint yourself into a blind corner, then look for a magic carpet to get out of your f**kup and not look like a d*ckhead.

You have no idea what I do, or have any idea what it's all about. My two dogs wear their Rex Specks muffs every time we go out, once a day at least, and don't pull them off. One did a few times, but he was corrected. Like, "trained" as to what is expected of him.
The fact you don't care about what you did with your animals is not an excuse for the rest of us to be as inconsiderate and unfit to be a dog owner as you, if you say (a lie) that you knew these things existed.
If you did, you'd know you're speaking bullsh*t again.

Your problem is one of ego. A member here who, unlike you, cares about his animals asked if there was something to protect his dogs hearing, and I suggested these muffs. Took the f**ken trouble to take pics, make them fit the size restrictions here, to be a part of the forum because I actually give a sh*t.
Wake up to yourself.
My post was for him, I couldn't GAF about pretenders like you.
Post up another internet pic of someone elses pimped up push button pretend AR15 and stick to what you know.

[Die Judicii]

Hey there WOMBLE,
I've been wondering for a very long time now, and just gotta ask,,

Do you have leaves and roots instead of sleeves and boots ?

[womble]

Now I’m someone who doesn’t care about his dogs and posts other people’s pics.
Ok d**khead whatever.

[Die Judicii]

:lol: Now I’m someone who doesn’t care about his dogs and posts other people’s pics.
Ok d**khead whatever.

I reckon your a “plant” , but i’m not absolutely certain which department your from or report back to.

[womble]

:lol: Now I’m someone who doesn’t care about his dogs and posts other people’s pics.
Ok d**khead whatever.

I reckon your a “plant” , but i’m not absolutely certain which department your from or report back to.

A libertarian plant on a gun forum.
That’s funny.
I’ve always been open about my party membership. Nothing to hide here. I’m very actively pro gun.

[womble]

Who do you think libertarians report to Die Juice.
Only to ourselves

[womble]

Have another pic of one of my...
Oh NO tHat GUn HAs a mag WELL iT MUSt BE An Ar15

[No1_49er]

Have another pic of one of my...
Oh NO tHat GUn HAs a mag WELL iT MUSt BE An Ar15

What in fvks name are you smoking?
Seems that deflection is your only recourse in an attempt to rescue yourself from a hopelessly lost "argument" about canine hearing protection.

[womble]

I’m not making an argument against hearing protection for your dog. Never did.
As you say. It never existed when I was younger.
If I had of strapped it on a pig dogs head it definitely wouldn’t be an advantage for the dog.
I cared about them. They had heavy vests and collars. Had radio trackers before gps.
Just being honest. They didn’t wear ear muffs.
Ever seen a dog being rag dolled by a pig. No your ear muffs are not staying on that dog. And that’s the truth.
As I keep having to repeat myself. Do I shoot around my pet dogs today. No I don’t. They’re very spoiled pets.

The only argument I made for a realistic solution.
Apply for an exemption on a suppressor or move to NSW.
Your dog needs to be able to hear you in any hunting scenario, especially if guns are involved.

It’s a forum. There are people here who didn’t grow up in the country. They’ll never understand this stuff.
Working dogs from working lines don’t really get pampered. They have a job to do and they love nothing more than doing it.
They’re hard and tough animals.
I’ve seen people mistreat their dogs. Even train them with cattle prods. But I’ve never been one of those people.
If I’m in the country and I see dogs not wearing ear muffs. I’m not saying anything about it.
If I ever see a dog wearing them I’ll be sure to let you know, so you can sleep better at night.

[Wapiti]

Bit of a read for what I'm talking about in DJ's question.

https://www.rexspecs.com/products/ear-p ... 3ug.Q8BxZC

Hopefully it opens for those interested in their dogs ears.