Hammer spring for an external hammer

[Zappa]

I have an external hammer Pieper 12ga SxS shottie and the right hammer is a bit weak. Ive experienced a couple of primer strike failures and would like to replace it.

They're the leaf spring type. The shottie is circa early 1900's from Belgium.

Where can I obtain this part? Apparently it's pretty common and still used in ext hammer shotties today.

[bladeracer]

I have an external hammer Pieper 12ga SxS shottie and the right hammer is a bit weak. Ive experienced a couple of primer strike failures and would like to replace it.

They're the leaf spring type. The shottie is circa early 1900's from Belgium.

Where can I obtain this part? Apparently it's pretty common and still used in ext hammer shotties today.

Rebels could be worth trying. They've changed their website recently do it's slightly harder to find spare parts, but if you go right down to the bottom of this list you'll find various firearm parts listed as well as brands.
https://www.rebelgunworks.com.au/collections/all-accessories

[No1Mk3]

Contact a couple of nearby dealers, almost all dealers are constantly scrapping old hand-in shotties and it is not worth their time to dismantle and keep parts so unless you make a specific request the guns go to the Police for disposal. If you tell them you need a spring they may tell you when they have a Pieper Hammer-gun for scrapping and pull the lockplate off for you. Problem is that unless it is the exact model of Pieper the lockwork may be different but you could be lucky, I have done this with a mid-1890's J.O.Mayne. Best way is to simply have a new spring made as this is a simple job for a gunsmith or experienced tinker and shouldn't cost too much.

[Zappa]

Contact a couple of nearby dealers, almost all dealers are constantly scrapping old hand-in shotties and it is not worth their time to dismantle and keep parts so unless you make a specific request the guns go to the Police for disposal. If you tell them you need a spring they may tell you when they have a Pieper Hammer-gun for scrapping and pull the lockplate off for you. Problem is that unless it is the exact model of Pieper the lockwork may be different but you could be lucky, I have done this with a mid-1890's J.O.Mayne. Best way is to simply have a new spring made as this is a simple job for a gunsmith or experienced tinker and shouldn't cost too much.

Wouldn't have thought the'd be easy to make unless you have a forge but I came across this video.
https://youtu.be/fTH95R3NacY
I might give it a go myself.

Rebels could be worth trying. They've changed their website recently do it's slightly harder to find spare parts, but if you go right down to the bottom of this list you'll find various firearm parts listed as well as brands.
https://www.rebelgunworks.com.au/collections/all-accessories

emailed them. cheers

[Wapiti]

Another tip, if you can't find an original old spring somewhere, which may just as easily be weak and/or out of shape.

If the original spring isn't broken, you can easily soften it with heat, change it's shape and reheat treat.
If you haven't done it before, don't sweat it, it's p*ss easy.

And for a spring reheat-treat, you don't need any special gear, just a hardware gas torch with the disposable bottles.
These torches have heaps of uses in a home shop.

Basically, you soften the spring by heating it and allowing it to cool in the air,
You then can bend the spring to the profile you wish, to give the hammer more tension.
You then heat it cherry-red, ideally to the point it is no longer magnetic (you can use one of those cheap pocket extendable magnetic pick-up tools,
And then, using long nose pliers, dip it in an old tin can filled with any mineral oil and swish it around.

Then chuck it in the oven on a tray (after degrease, so the wife won't spew about any smoke) at say, 200'C for about 15 minutes.
That will temper it, toughen it if you will, to stop it ever breaking.

The above can be done over and over.
And your little LPG or Map gas is easier to use than oxy-acetylene for non-tradies, because oxy is VERY hot and an unexperienced person can easily burn the steel of it's carbon and other elements.

For any other purpose in guns, you can make any spring yourself by hand.
Even on Ebay, you can buy small rolls of real spring wire and flat, in any diameter or width/thickness, cheap as chips and make anything.
I've even made very specific, tapered V-shape hammer springs from Grade-8 and 12 head bolts from old Holden and Ford engines, heating, bending and hammering out impossible-to-get springs for mates old guns.
It's certainly not bodgy, and I encourage people to take their gun maintenance to another step and keep any old gun shooting.

[Zappa]

Basically, you soften the spring by heating it and allowing it to cool in the air,
You then can bend the spring to the profile you wish, to give the hammer more tension.
You then heat it cherry-red, ideally to the point it is no longer magnetic (you can use one of those cheap pocket extendable magnetic pick-up tools,
And then, using long nose pliers, dip it in an old tin can filled with any mineral oil and swish it around.

this has opened a whole new world for me. I have a bunnings MAP torch which i use to unfreeze bolts and anneal copper washers etc. Never thought it'd be powerful enough to tackle med-high carbon steel.

when you say "soften by heating and then bend", do you mean get it to a point where it almost starts going a hint of red, then let it cool down completely. Then attempt to bend? Will it bend or will it spring back to shape?
The rest is pretty straight forward.

[jezzab]

By heating up the HC steel to ~815oC (austentising) you are converting the hard martensite to austentite and then letting it cool slowly it stops the martensite conversion and it has become annealed and soft/workable.

Heating it up to an austentising temp again and then quickly quenching it in oil (canola is fine and a slow quench. You can use faster oils for different things but its getting off track for this), you are converting the austentite into martensite which is very hard and very brittle, it would snap if you bent it.

The heating in the oven for a period of time you are tempering it and removing some of the hardness (and brittleness). The hotter you temper, it the softer it will get. Usually on a HC blade its 2 x 2 hours with a dunk in water in between

For knives its usually ends up a straw color and when I do spring parts (slipjoint pocket knifes, etc) I usually just use a torch and go until its peacock blue and let it cool naturally but each to their own.

[Wapiti]

Basically, you soften the spring by heating it and allowing it to cool in the air,
You then can bend the spring to the profile you wish, to give the hammer more tension.
You then heat it cherry-red, ideally to the point it is no longer magnetic (you can use one of those cheap pocket extendable magnetic pick-up tools,
And then, using long nose pliers, dip it in an old tin can filled with any mineral oil and swish it around.

this has opened a whole new world for me. I have a bunnings MAP torch which i use to unfreeze bolts and anneal copper washers etc. Never thought it'd be powerful enough to tackle med-high carbon steel.

when you say "soften by heating and then bend", do you mean get it to a point where it almost starts going a hint of red, then let it cool down completely. Then attempt to bend? Will it bend or will it spring back to shape?
The rest is pretty straight forward.

It's much easier than you think, and this is my experience and observations in doing it very successfully.

Heat the part with your torch (map gas in the yellow bottles is hotter than LPG in the blue bottles, so just hold the flame back a bit if using map gas, speed is not required, use patience) just to a cherry red all over. If, from looking at the part, make sure at least that the section of a w-spring for example, is definitely heated cherry red. The extremities of the part that aren't doing the work aren't that important, but try and do it uniformly.
Then just turn off the torch and let the part cool in air, as long as it takes.
This will soften the part where it can be bent open a little, or stretched, depends on the part.

There are different viscosities of oil to use, some steels are best water quenched, more confusing info on something you'll never find for your part anyway. Just use some mineral oil, whatever you have.

You can search the internet and get all concerned about temperatures, the changing structure of the steel, but don't even worry about that.

Before trying the part, you'll have to harden it again, or it'll just bend back!

Heat it up again, if you have one of those small magnets you buy to pick up dropped bolts etc, it's convenient and easy to handle. Better still, have a second person do that if it helps. Heat it ideally to the point the magnet won't stick. Familiarise yourself with what that feels like first, when the part is cold.

Dip the part in the oil in your old tin, and swish it around because the heat will vaporise the oil and the part mightn't get uniformly hardened.

Pull it out, and degrease it. Polish it up with some emery cloth do you can see the part change colour in your oven, you're looking for a straw shade of yellow when you temper it. Again, don't fuss over the colour.
Tempering will take the brittleness out of the part, toughen it if you will.

For those who reckon I'm a bit blase in my temperatures and descriptions, I've made, rehardened and reshaped plenty of springs, and fussing over colours, times, descriptions of the changes to the steel haven't made any difference and all have worked perfectly.

Maybe if you are a bit reluctant or a little nervous, that's cool, we all are the first few times. Maybe knock up a similar part from scrap and practice first in your handling, use of gear, how best to hold the part, all of that. Go for it!
Unless you burn the steel with oxy/acet by overdoing it, you can soften and harden a spring over and over.

[perentie]

All good info. I think I would be doing the rough shaping with an angle grinder and leave the hand filing till later.
Do you think strips cut off an old Land Rover leaf spring would make these little V springs or is it the wrong kind of spring steel ?