DO WE OVERTHINK IT ,OH YEAH...

[CJRBOLTGUN1]

As stated, do we as shooters and reloaders overthink the processes and why is that?

I can rattle off a ****** of topics that can get very controversial and at times can nearly end up in full blown fisticuffs: lol:
I 'll start with barrel break in and why,
personally, I think that cut rifling does benefit from a proper break-in procedure whatever that may be, but button rifling does not need it, maybe some sort of variation of sorts to put the barrel through heat cycles what's your thoughts..................

[mchughcb]

Ask yourself , do you suffer from ocd? Then you will know your answer.

[bigrich]

As stated, do we as shooters and reloaders overthink the processes and why is that?

I can rattle off a ****** of topics that can get very controversial and at times can nearly end up in full blown fisticuffs: lol:
I 'll start with barrel break in and why,
personally, I think that cut rifling does benefit from a proper break-in procedure whatever that may be, but button rifling does not need it, maybe some sort of variation of sorts to put the barrel through heat cycles what's your thoughts..................

you've opened a can of worms . there's a lot of variables . hammer forged stainless barrel like tikka's probably have the smoothest finish of all and really don't need much break in . the grain is courser in chrome moly barrel, and burrs and minor defects need to be bedded in . there's a lot more too it, but that's the basics . myself, i'll listen to gunsmiths and barrel makers over internet experts . and the smiths and barrel makers advise break in , so....
when i was building old school v8's and hot sixes, you didn't go out straight away and rev the nuts of a motor, unless it was a straight up drag motor with extra bearing clearance built in . you'd run it in and give the bearings and moving parts time to smooth out the tightness and rough edges so everything wore in . new barrel unless it's match finished smooth is the same thing IMHO

reminds me of the milsurp barrel cleaning topic , i got my opinion , other people got theirs . let the arguments and chaos begin

[niteowl]

OK.
As a commercial shooter (Part time) for some years in the sixties, and as a qualified gunsmith since 1968, and am still licenced as a professional shooter, I have NEVER run in a new barrel.
(I am retiring from the gunsmithing later this month after all those years, when my renewal comes due).
Yes I agree that a hammer forged barrel will be "smoother", but I have used cut too and never found any need to go through the run in process as the accuracy has never changed from before or after. Not saying they do not wear out in time.
Interestingly I originally qualified as a mechanical fitter but spent a LARGE portion of my work was as a mechanic on small and large vehicle engines.
The critical thing with these was the bedding in of the rings after a complete rebuild. Not to smooth out bearings etc but to actually load up the engine to get the rings bedded to prevent excessive oil use.

Any way, if you wish, it will do no harm.

On a separate subject. After MANY attempts to arrange a "business" membership here, that has had NO RESPONSE from the site owners, I will mention my web sites - AUSTRALIAN SHOOTING SERVICES and AUSTRALIAN NIGHT VISION should anybody be interested.

[bigrich]

OK.
As a commercial shooter (Part time) for some years in the sixties, and as a qualified gunsmith since 1968, and am still licenced as a professional shooter, I have NEVER run in a new barrel.
(I am retiring from the gunsmithing later this month after all those years, when my renewal comes due).
Yes I agree that a hammer forged barrel will be "smoother", but I have used cut too and never found any need to go through the run in process as the accuracy has never changed from before or after. Not saying they do not wear out in time.
Interestingly I originally qualified as a mechanical fitter but spent a LARGE portion of my work was as a mechanic on small and large vehicle engines.
The critical thing with these was the bedding in of the rings after a complete rebuild. Not to smooth out bearings etc but to actually load up the engine to get the rings bedded to prevent excessive oil use.

Any way, if you wish, it will do no harm.

On a separate subject. After MANY attempts to arrange a "business" membership here, that has had NO RESPONSE from the site owners, I will mention my web sites - AUSTRALIAN SHOOTING SERVICES and AUSTRALIAN NIGHT VISION should anybody be interested.

yeah forgot about the rings, unless it's the chrome moly type that bed in during initial start up and camshaft break in . been a while since i've played with that stuff . with barrels i prefer to play it safe and break in my barrels as advised by the makers or smiths . as you say , can't do any harm to do so . yeah , the site owners don't seem to be around much . cheers

[CJRBOLTGUN1]

Ask yourself , do you suffer from ocd? Then you will know your answer.

everone does to a certain degree

[CJRBOLTGUN1]

I only used barrel break-in as a starter, pretty sure there's more than just that,
what about shoulder bump , twist rate, case cleaning versus no cleaning , neck size vs full length sizing, neck turning, annealing .......................

[niteowl]

I only used barrel break-in as a starter, pretty sure there's more than just that,
what about shoulder bump , twist rate, case cleaning versus no cleaning , neck size vs full length sizing, neck turning, annealing .......................

Shoulder bump - no
Twist rate - can be critical
Case cleaning - no
Neck size - yes
Full length - no
Neck turning - no
Annealing - no

Any of the no answers require yes, chuck 'em away.

Now we should get some comments

[mchughcb]

FLS always as I use the same ammo in different rifles.

[niteowl]

FLS always as I use the same ammo in different rifles.

Ah, OK on that one

[bigrich]

I only used barrel break-in as a starter, pretty sure there's more than just that,
what about shoulder bump , twist rate, case cleaning versus no cleaning , neck size vs full length sizing, neck turning, annealing .......................

Shoulder bump - no
Twist rate - can be critical
Case cleaning - no
Neck size - yes
Full length - no
Neck turning - no
Annealing - no

Any of the no answers require yes, chuck 'em away.

Now we should get some comments

i do whatever my rifles like for best accuracy , some have liked neck sizing , some don't . annealing for consistent neck tension after 3 firings, yes . cleaning all the carbon off of my cases, why wouldn't you ?

[mchughcb]

FLS always as I use the same ammo in different rifles.

Ah, OK on that one

Cleaning with a wet tumbler after using a universal deprimer because then I don't get the die stuck during fls wothdrawal and I don't have to worry about neck lubes.

[niteowl]

Cleaning cases ??
Should not be required, yes a quick bore brush in the neck, nothing else. Should not need annealing for more than 3 shots.

PS Collet die only, don't overwork the neck !

[mchughcb]

Throwing several hundred cases in the tumbler and doing the shopping is far easier than sitting there for hours with a little brush and it cleaning the primer pockets as a bonus.

[zbenga]

I only used barrel break-in as a starter, pretty sure there's more than just that,
what about shoulder bump , twist rate, case cleaning versus no cleaning , neck size vs full length sizing, neck turning, annealing .......................

Shoulder bump - no
Twist rate - can be critical
Case cleaning - no
Neck size - yes
Full length - no
Neck turning - no
Annealing - no

Any of the no answers require yes, chuck 'em away.

Now we should get some comments

whoa ...

Shoulder bump - no
Twist rate - critical
Case cleaning - never
Primer pocket cleaning - always
Neck size - never
Full length - always
Neck turning - always
Annealing - always
Case trim - always

I sit on under 5 SD, never break in a barrel, did notice speed changes but not POI or SD or accuracy
I clean my rifle every time I get home, if it was fired once, it will get cleaned with G96, if it got fired over 100 times it will get clean with G96 then the chamber cleaned with CLR and re primed with G96

I don't weight bullets or brass or do anything silly with the primer pocket, just a quick clean to remove carbon new primer done, my rifles shoot lights out

here is a new LA102 in 6.5, took 3 goes at powder charge to get to .3 MOA, under 30 rounds through the rifle

[zbenga]

Cleaning cases ??
Should not be required, yes a quick bore brush in the neck, nothing else. Should not need annealing for more than 3 shots.

PS Collet die only, don't overwork the neck !

never put a bore brush in the neck mate, that carbon in the neck is good, with large calibers like 45-70 that carbon will stop case/bullet weld. IMHO the less you do which does not impact SD and accuracy the better
I anneal every time, I use the Ugly Annealer so can do batches for 200 at a time, press button, do something else until all are done.

[Duramax]

These two pics are of Tikka T3x's, one a 243, the other a 223. Neither have been fired as of yet but both are good candidates for a break in procedure. While both pics might look like an outback corrigated track, the burrs and high spots do disappear in fifty or so shots. Barrels as such don't need a break in process but throats in my experience most certainly do benefit from close viewing and a good polish, especially if it's a 22lr.. The bottom pic is of the 223 throat and is untouched, the 243, top pic, has been lapped with JB paste and will be fired tomorrow. The 223 will be fired tomorrow also I believe but the throat is being left as is as I feel there is nothing deep enough there for copper to stick to. There are a few tool marks and scratches to be seen but this is one of the better 223 throats I have seen from Tikka/Sako. The 243 throat was a real train wreck before the JB cut and polish.

[CJRBOLTGUN1]

These two pics are of Tikka T3x's, one a 243, the other a 223. Neither have been fired as of yet but both are good candidates for a break in procedure. While both pics might look like an outback corrigated track, the burrs and high spots do disappear in fifty or so shots. Barrels as such don't need a break in process but throats in my experience most certainly do benefit from close viewing and a good polish, especially if it's a 22lr.. The bottom pic is of the 223 throat and is untouched, the 243, top pic, has been lapped with JB paste and will be fired tomorrow. The 223 will be fired tomorrow also I believe but the throat is being left as is as I feel there is nothing deep enough there for copper to stick to. There are a few tool marks and scratches to be seen but this is one of the better 223 throats I have seen from Tikka/Sako. The 243 throat was a real train wreck before the JB cut and polish.

Jb bore paste is fantastic if used correctly, I use it to give my barrels a deep clean and then just maintain it with bore bright, lots of opinion out there about abrasives

[Duramax]

Well both rifles were shot over the weekend. The 243 shot quite well for a sporter and the throat looks pretty good after16 shots. The 223 is a problem. For a medium weight barrel it should have done better with 80 grain ELDMs as 1.5 to 2 MOA groups when running through powder charges from 23 to 24 grains of 2206H is not acceptable. The throat was collecting substantial deposits of copper as can be seen in the pic below during the process and is still looking average. It puzzles me why Tikka uses a short throat on an 8 twist barrel suited to VLDs. It also restricts the powder column in the case when having to seat the bullets so deep. So I'm going to run my match throating reamer through it and try again this weekend.

Both barrels were clean of copper for their entire length so they are good to go. As per my first post, chamber throats are where accuracy starts and ends so I will reiterate that barrels these days don't need breaking in, but throats most certainly do. The pic below clearly shows it.

[Wapiti]

These two pics are of Tikka T3x's, one a 243, the other a 223. Neither have been fired as of yet but both are good candidates for a break in procedure. While both pics might look like an outback corrigated track, the burrs and high spots do disappear in fifty or so shots. Barrels as such don't need a break in process but throats in my experience most certainly do benefit from close viewing and a good polish, especially if it's a 22lr.. The bottom pic is of the 223 throat and is untouched, the 243, top pic, has been lapped with JB paste and will be fired tomorrow. The 223 will be fired tomorrow also I believe but the throat is being left as is as I feel there is nothing deep enough there for copper to stick to. There are a few tool marks and scratches to be seen but this is one of the better 223 throats I have seen from Tikka/Sako. The 243 throat was a real train wreck before the JB cut and polish.

Jb bore paste is fantastic if used correctly, I use it to give my barrels a deep clean and then just maintain it with bore bright, lots of opinion out there about abrasives

I bought a Howa 243 s/s sporter as a dedicated thermal rifle for wild dogs. I ditched the stiff-as-a-fly-swatter Hogue pillar bedded stock it came out with and got a full alloy bed job.
It had a VX3i 3.5-10x40 scope, and as always I spun a lapping bar in the Leupold rings.
Well, if I could break the 50mm group I would've. Tried everything. Breaking in, all loads and projectiles etc.
Then tried a Zerotech 1-8x LVPO, fell for the marketing crap all over the net and that thing is a POS with parallax at 100m that a 4lt ice cream bucket wouldn't cover. Because all you need for a clip-on thermal is 3x max. So it wasn't the scope. And the Zerotech well, chalk that up to Chinese sh*t.
In desperation, just prior to Christmas, I lapped the bore with 4 consecutive doses of "Autosol" metal polish, German-made, meant for chrome bumpers and mag wheels.
Instant improvement, groups more than halved and strangely, 90gn Speers, 87 Vmax, 87 Tipped Gameking with both 2208 and 2209 all now shoot to exactly the same POI !!!!

So for those who don't have a gunshop down at every corner that stocks JB paste, check out your local Repco or Autobarn in an average country town and get some Autosol. And I bet it's heaps cheaper.
I have no idea what JB bore paste is like or what grit it is, but Autosol is very smooth and polishes stainless steel to a mirror finish, as any metal tradie would know.

[bigrich]

These two pics are of Tikka T3x's, one a 243, the other a 223. Neither have been fired as of yet but both are good candidates for a break in procedure. While both pics might look like an outback corrigated track, the burrs and high spots do disappear in fifty or so shots. Barrels as such don't need a break in process but throats in my experience most certainly do benefit from close viewing and a good polish, especially if it's a 22lr.. The bottom pic is of the 223 throat and is untouched, the 243, top pic, has been lapped with JB paste and will be fired tomorrow. The 223 will be fired tomorrow also I believe but the throat is being left as is as I feel there is nothing deep enough there for copper to stick to. There are a few tool marks and scratches to be seen but this is one of the better 223 throats I have seen from Tikka/Sako. The 243 throat was a real train wreck before the JB cut and polish.

Jb bore paste is fantastic if used correctly, I use it to give my barrels a deep clean and then just maintain it with bore bright, lots of opinion out there about abrasives

I bought a Howa 243 s/s sporter as a dedicated thermal rifle for wild dogs. I ditched the stiff-as-a-fly-swatter Hogue pillar bedded stock it came out with and got a full alloy bed job.
It had a VX3i 3.5-10x40 scope, and as always I spun a lapping bar in the Leupold rings.
Well, if I could break the 50mm group I would've. Tried everything. Breaking in, all loads and projectiles etc.
Then tried a Zerotech 1-8x LVPO, fell for the marketing crap all over the net and that thing is a POS with parallax at 100m that a 4lt ice cream bucket wouldn't cover. Because all you need for a clip-on thermal is 3x max. So it wasn't the scope. And the Zerotech well, chalk that up to Chinese sh*t.
In desperation, just prior to Christmas, I lapped the bore with 4 consecutive doses of "Autosol" metal polish, German-made, meant for chrome bumpers and mag wheels.
Instant improvement, groups more than halved and strangely, 90gn Speers, 87 Vmax, 87 Tipped Gameking with both 2208 and 2209 all now shoot to exactly the same POI !!!!

So for those who don't have a gunshop down at every corner that stocks JB paste, check out your local Repco or Autobarn in an average country town and get some Autosol. And I bet it's heaps cheaper.
I have no idea what JB bore paste is like or what grit it is, but Autosol is very smooth and polishes stainless steel to a mirror finish, as any metal tradie would know.

autosol and a low speed buff would perform magic on the chrome and stainless of my my ole HQ's and VC valiants years ago. nice and shiny bumpers probably made them go faster too . just like projectiles out of a smooth barrel my "cammed up" 318 valiant was a bit of a bullet too

[Wapiti]

The local drug dealer in Sunnybank (pot) when we were just teenagers had this Celica he used to do his runs in, he'd polish the hell out of it and took off all the decals and badges, and made sure there were no bugs on it. Even drilled holes in the muffler. He said it made it go faster. Less drag.
He must've been stoned to think that.
I told him it sounded like a retarded hornet dropping it's guts, he was after me after that.

[CJRBOLTGUN1]

i got my jb pastes from the Q store ,at the same time i bulk buy bronze brushes and the like