New air-rifle perhaps?

[bladeracer]

I'm not a huge fan of air-rifles, but if I could own this here I'd love one

[on_one_wheel]

Oh s**t .... there goes my tax return

[bladeracer]

Testing it.
https://youtu.be/6JcbISX0P3Q

[Wapiti]

Hey can anyone recommend a reasonably priced, accurate .177 air rifle, for small pest birds in sheds that s**t all over your equipment, that won't shoot through modern corrugated roofing/custom orb?

There isn't a rimfire round that won't punch through any of that stuff. 22 Ratshot will work, but it's expensive and VERY marginal in performance.

[bladeracer]

Hey can anyone recommend a reasonably priced, accurate .177 air rifle, for small pest birds in sheds that s**t all over your equipment, that won't shoot through modern corrugated roofing/custom orb?

There isn't a rimfire round that won't punch through any of that stuff. 22 Ratshot will work, but it's expensive and VERY marginal in performance.

My CO2 Ruger 10/22 Umarex air-rifle probably fits the bill. 10rd mag and a red dot, great in the sheds. Only makes about 620fps so doesn't usually go through the walls.

Ratshot is rubbish, I use it for march flies but that's all.

[Wapiti]

Yeah I finally got onto a few boxes of that old Winchester ratshot, the stuff in the 50rd loose boxes. It's hit and miss, usually involves some neck twisting which isn't what I'm about.
I've tried to get dealers out this way to pressure the importers to bring in that Fiocchi 12g no.12 shot loads, that'd sweep the roof purlins clean. But they won't. All they're interested in is clay shooters, and buckshot.
Thanks for your suggestion, I'll do some searching about the Umarex. I'd prefer an old-style air cocker though.

[bladeracer]

Yeah I finally got onto a few boxes of that old Winchester ratshot, the stuff in the 50rd loose boxes. It's hit and miss, usually involves some neck twisting which isn't what I'm about.
I've tried to get dealers out this way to pressure the importers to bring in that Fiocchi 12g no.12 shot loads, that'd sweep the roof purlins clean. But they won't. All they're interested in is clay shooters, and buckshot.
Thanks for your suggestion, I'll do some searching about the Umarex. I'd prefer an old-style air cocker though.

Just buy a bag of #12 and swap it into bulk field loads if that's what you want to use. I don't go smaller than #9, which is very bloody small.

[Wapiti]

Yeah I tried to get #12 shot and would've even got maybe, a Lee Loader for 12ga just to do that, but couldn't find that size shot listed anywhere.
Every supplier I tried thought I was nuts.
The last thing I want to do is reload for shotguns. I have absolutely no interest in that, and find shotguns quite a compromise for what we do and hardly use them except with buckshot. Hence the air rifle idea.

7.5 and even 9 shot, will blow straight through shed cladding, at say 20m. The factory loadings I've tried anyway, on the test pieces of custom orb I've tested on. But 12 shot is too light and hasn't enough energy, to do that. According to my (barely) professional attempts at calculations. If I had 12-shot cartridges, I could wipe out a whole row of the bloody crapping birds with one shot, by sweeping along a purlin on an angle. The purlins are 7m high in the hay sheds.

[bladeracer]

Yeah I tried to get #12 shot and would've even got maybe, a Lee Loader for 12ga just to do that, but couldn't find that size shot listed anywhere.
Every supplier I tried thought I was nuts.
The last thing I want to do is reload for shotguns. I have absolutely no interest in that, and find shotguns quite a compromise for what we do and hardly use them except with buckshot. Hence the air rifle idea.

7.5 and even 9 shot, will blow straight through shed cladding, at say 20m. The factory loadings I've tried anyway, on the test pieces of custom orb I've tested on. But 12 shot is too light and hasn't enough energy, to do that. According to my (barely) professional attempts at calculations. If I had 12-shot cartridges, I could wipe out a whole row of the bloody crapping birds with one shot, by sweeping along a purlin on an angle. The purlins are 7m high in the hay sheds.

Don't need any loading gear, except maybe a crimper if you want to, just drop some wax on top or wrap it with insulation tape. #12 shot would be pretty ineffective I would think past about 5m.

[Wapiti]

Yeah but how to open up a crimp on an unfired cartridge? To tip out the large shot?
Wax is not a very good idea for what I'm trying to do, it will make the shot into a large projectile and will absolutely hole the sheeting.

I've seen a few YouTube videos where blokes have cut off the crimps off cheap 7.5 shot cartridges and poured wax on top of the shot. It stops it falling out, sure, but the result on a target is a big slug of shot in one ball. To me, that's obviously counter to what I described I'm trying to achieve.

No. 12 Ratshot in 22LR at 7m will absolutely kill pest birds if hit in the body or head, the issue is the tiny amount of shot, spreading all over the place after bouncing through the riflling in the rimfire barrel means the shot pattern has huge holes in it so marginal kill rates meaning wounded animals flapping around in purlins 7m up. I don't stand for that..
7/8ths ounce of 12 in a 12g will absolutely fix that, even in an open choke. Nobody has tried it so everything is just opinions right now hey?

Apologies to people who've been annoyed by "thread creep". I realise I should've started two others, one about a good accurate springer pest sluggy and one about 12 shot.

[bladeracer]

Yeah but how to open up a crimp on an unfired cartridge? To tip out the large shot?
Wax is not a very good idea for what I'm trying to do, it will make the shot into a large projectile and will absolutely hole the sheeting.

I've seen a few YouTube videos where blokes have cut off the crimps off cheap 7.5 shot cartridges and poured wax on top of the shot. It stops it falling out, sure, but the result on a target is a big slug of shot in one ball. To me, that's obviously counter to what I described I'm trying to achieve.

No. 12 Ratshot in 22LR at 7m will absolutely kill pest birds if hit in the body or head, the issue is the tiny amount of shot, spreading all over the place after bouncing through the riflling in the rimfire barrel means the shot pattern has huge holes in it so marginal kill rates meaning wounded animals flapping around in purlins 7m up. I don't stand for that..
7/8ths ounce of 12 in a 12g will absolutely fix that, even in an open choke. Nobody has tried it so everything is just opinions right now hey?

Apologies to people who've been annoyed by "thread creep". I realise I should've started two others, one about a good accurate springer pest sluggy and one about 12 shot.

I generally just poke a knife blade in the centre and tease the petals out to tip the shot out. I have also cut the top off, dumped the shot out, dropped in #9, BB's or slugs and wrapped the front with insulation tape, works just fine.

But definitely, I'd much prefer a .177" SLR for shed work

[stihl88]

Hey can anyone recommend a reasonably priced, accurate .177 air rifle, for small pest birds in sheds that s**t all over your equipment, that won't shoot through modern corrugated roofing/custom orb?

There isn't a rimfire round that won't punch through any of that stuff. 22 Ratshot will work, but it's expensive and VERY marginal in performance.

You could try the Aguila Super Colibri's, super quiet and only 14ft lbs of energy so should be safe for the roof? A typical .17 cal air rifle is in the range of 10 ~20ft lbs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-T2TWje2e8

The standard lower velocity Colibri is for pistols and will come out at about 5ft lbs, if you use these make sure to see if they're clearing the barrel if you choose to use these.

[madang55]

I have only just seen this post. At first I just laughed. Now I've just gone week at the knees. I WANT ONE

[alexjones]

Would a 22 short go through the shed roof?

I have a henry pump that uses LR and shorts but I never use the shorts.

[Wapiti]

Would a 22 short go through the shed roof?

I have a henry pump that uses LR and shorts but I never use the shorts.

Yeah mate, shorts go through at 10m or so, as do Z's, CCI Quiets, all of them. Even the light slow 29gn stuff .
And no importer in Aus will bring in a 12g No.12 shot load, mate they'd sell BUCKETloads to farmers if they did. That light shot is exactly the answer. Alas. I have asked but can't make it happen.

[bladeracer]

Would a 22 short go through the shed roof?

I have a henry pump that uses LR and shorts but I never use the shorts.

Shorts are the same as Long-Rifle velocities, you get low-velocity shorts and high-velocity shorts. Both will easily go through corrugated steel roof sheeting, even at several hundred meters.

Even CB's and their ilk, primer-only loads, would likely penetrate steel sheeting at close range, but I haven't tested them.

[bladeracer]

Would a 22 short go through the shed roof?

I have a henry pump that uses LR and shorts but I never use the shorts.

Yeah mate, shorts go through at 10m or so, as do Z's, CCI Quiets, all of them. Even the light slow 29gn stuff .
And no importer in Aus will bring in a 12g No.12 shot load, mate they'd sell BUCKETloads to farmers if they did. That light shot is exactly the answer. Alas. I have asked but can't make it happen.

Having just had my blood lead level measured at 25.8, I'd be concerned about spraying tens of thousands of pieces of lead around the sheds. One ounce of #12 shot is 2400 pellets. Stick with an air rifle I reckon and just take aimed shots.

[Wapiti]

Yeah but mate, you're into more lead bullets more than the rocks in my tyres and boot treads. Your exposure with all the shooting you do is on a mega scale to me.
And yeah, i get my lead levels tested 3x a year, I get FULL bloods done by the Mrs... sometimes 4X a year, and mine are lower than average.
In my left foot, what's left of it, are about 40 lead fragments and that doesn't raise my blood levels at all. Apparently the body surrounds the lead and encapsulates it when embedded. Different in the lungs though.

I will take you to task with a few 1000 tiny pellets lying in all the high shed purlins out here, lead oxidises and when just sitting there, doesn't throw any dust around, ever, if not handled and absorbed, either through skin or airborne from the shot itself, or the priming compound in older ammo.
A bloke downwind of another clay stand, or the smoky lead pistol bullets at the Sunday shoot-em-up at the club will be in a lead cloud every weekend, but not me.
As your lead levels show...
Bring on the No.12 12G shot !!!!!!!!!!

[bladeracer]

Yeah but mate, you're into more lead bullets more than the rocks in my tyres and boot treads. Your exposure with all the shooting you do is on a mega scale to me.
And yeah, i get my lead levels tested 3x a year, I get FULL bloods done by the Mrs... sometimes 4X a year, and mine are lower than average.
In my left foot, what's left of it, are about 40 lead fragments and that doesn't raise my blood levels at all. Apparently the body surrounds the lead and encapsulates it when embedded. Different in the lungs though.

I will take you to task with a few 1000 tiny pellets lying in all the high shed purlins out here, lead oxidises and when just sitting there, doesn't throw any dust around, ever, if not handled and absorbed, either through skin or airborne from the shot itself, or the priming compound in older ammo.
A bloke downwind of another clay stand, or the smoky lead pistol bullets at the Sunday shoot-em-up at the club will be in a lead cloud every weekend, but not me.
As your lead levels show...
Bring on the No.12 12G shot !!!!!!!!!!

That's a pretty fair assessment I think

I haven't found any #12 shot in Oz, but you could try some of the shot making forums and groups and see if you can talk somebody into trying to pour you some.

Or a B709 import ticket could get it from the US, if you can find somebody willing to export.
https://www.ballisticproducts.com/Chilled-Lead-Shot-12-13mm-11-lb/productinfo/02612/
$75 Australian plus the freight on a 5kg bag of lead. Enough for 170rds at maybe a dollar a round.

I bought a couple 10kg bags of #9 shot a few years ago so that might be another option. Not quite as small but it's pretty tiny. #12 shot is supposed to be .053" (1.25mm) and .35gn, #9 is .080" (2mm) and .75gn.

I still think a CO2 air-rifle is a better choice though.
Or a pistol perhaps

[NTSOG]

G'day,

I have an Anschutz 335 in .177 mounted with a small illuminated scope for shooting birds, mostly swallows, in my big machinery shed. I got sick of bird droppings on everything. I shoot target [wadcutter] pellets around 7gr. which hit the cladding without any damage. While the rifle is very accurate it has a pretty heavy trigger. This rifle is low powered. I have also used one of my vintage 10m. competition air rifles, rated under 6 foot pounds, with competition dioptre sights, though in a dark shed lighting can be a problem. Again, I use flat head target pellets. It's very hard to miss a swallow with a proper target air rifle with a 3-ounce trigger!

Jim

[Wapiti]

Thanks Blade and NTSOG for taking the time to comment.

I did buy a case of target shot low-velocity 9's, which take out 5 birds at a time, but I have to stand a range-finder measured 30m away from the shed walls if I don't want them heavily dented. It's the weight of the shot, the size is too heavy still. And standing that far away opens the pattern badly.

I have literally 1000's of birds roosting at night in the 30m hay sheds, literally touching one another on the purlins. Imagine the toxic sh*t they line up in the purlins and on the hay and gear. An air rifle... I just do not have the time to sit there all night for weeks on end.
I can only imagine how effective, at a 30' angle, sweeping along a purlin with one shot of 12g 12-shot would be.
And I have spent quite a few nights on google looking for 12 shot, even committing to reloading shotshells (f**k no) if I could find some but I can't.

[Damo300]

Thanks Blade and NTSOG for taking the time to comment.

I did buy a case of target shot low-velocity 9's, which take out 5 birds at a time, but I have to stand a range-finder measured 30m away from the shed walls if I don't want them heavily dented. It's the weight of the shot, the size is too heavy still. And standing that far away opens the pattern badly.

I have literally 1000's of birds roosting at night in the 30m hay sheds, literally touching one another on the purlins. Imagine the toxic sh*t they line up in the purlins and on the hay and gear. An air rifle... I just do not have the time to sit there all night for weeks on end.
I can only imagine how effective, at a 30' angle, sweeping along a purlin with one shot of 12g 12-shot would be.
And I have spent quite a few nights on google looking for 12 shot, even committing to reloading shotshells (f**k no) if I could find some but I can't.

G'day mate.
If you're in SE QLD, you're more than welcome to borrow my 177 for a bit.
It's a cheap 80s Chinese shanghai model. Nothing special. Open sight, very accurate, side lever loading.

Doesn't go through coro iron, but it knocks rats, pigeons and mynors no worries.

[JDM9691]

I have a FX Dreamline classic in .22 (about $1500), which has 3 power settings, High, Medium and Low. I don't have Chrono, but from reverse engineering the BC and drop values it does about 915 fps in both High and Medium, and 590 fps in low. In High and Medium the 15.9grain exact jumbos will go through a pigeon at 20m and still punch through corrugated iron behind it. In LOW it will still go through the chest area of a pigeon about half the time, and when it does it will leave a slight ding in the wall/roof iron. I do my best to line them up so they have a C section or a truss behind them, which the pellets will not damage.

I did some more testing the other day before going out on a pigeon job.
In HIGH or Medium at 25m the 15.8g Jumbos will go through corrugated iron no problem, or will go through 146 pages of glossy magazines.
In LOW it will put a ding in corrugated iron, but not penetrate, or will go through 114 pages of glossy magazine.
There are usually a couple different thicknesses of roof and wall iron, so that will make a difference depending on what you are working with.
I might try some Hades pellets or something with a hollow point next, to try and avoid the pellet going straight through. It's pretty easy to change barrels on the FX stuff, so it might even be worth switching to .177 for these pigeon/shed jobs.

I've used birdshot/ratshot in an old .22 before I got the PCP, and while it doesn't damage the iron much, it also doesn't damage birds much either! Shooting in my own shed with ratshot, I have noticed small flakes of galv floating down from the roof, if the sun is at the right angle, so ratshot isn't exactly damage free for galv iron.

My dad used to empty the BB's from the 12gauge an fill them with wheat, and use that on birds inside sheds . I can't remember the results he had with it, but I'd imagine it would knock them down and stun quite a few even if it didn't kill them. I guess everything is deadly to birds to a certain range, and safe on corrugated iron beyond a certain range - you just have to find out where those ranges are with experience! . I'd imagine the buyer of the hay wouldn't be happy if they knew there were lead pellets in their stock feed

[Wapiti]

G'day mate.
If you're in SE QLD, you're more than welcome to borrow my 177 for a bit.
It's a cheap 80s Chinese shanghai model. Nothing special. Open sight, very accurate, side lever loading.

Doesn't go through coro iron, but it knocks rats, pigeons and mynors no worries.

Thanks a heap Damo. That's a really thoughtful offer.
Thing is, I'd probably want to keep the thing!
Problem is, right now the birds are not around, as they are migratory and have decided to move wherever else it is that they feel like going, but they'll be back.
My dad bought a Shanghai 177 from Struddies' Sports Store in the Sunnybank Kmart shopping centre when we were kids, and we used to go out on picnics with the family and shoot at cans in the bush near home. I remember it fondly, because it got the family together and was quite accurate with the old Diabolo and Wasp pellets we could buy at the hardware shop.
Imagine the puddles of wee and runny bum juice if someone dared do that now.

[Wapiti]

I have a FX Dreamline classic in .22 (about $1500), which has 3 power settings, High, Medium and Low. I don't have Chrono, but from reverse engineering the BC and drop values it does about 915 fps in both High and Medium, and 590 fps in low. In High and Medium the 15.9grain exact jumbos will go through a pigeon at 20m and still punch through corrugated iron behind it. In LOW it will still go through the chest area of a pigeon about half the time, and when it does it will leave a slight ding in the wall/roof iron. I do my best to line them up so they have a C section or a truss behind them, which the pellets will not damage.

I did some more testing the other day before going out on a pigeon job.
In HIGH or Medium at 25m the 15.8g Jumbos will go through corrugated iron no problem, or will go through 146 pages of glossy magazines.
In LOW it will put a ding in corrugated iron, but not penetrate, or will go through 114 pages of glossy magazine.
There are usually a couple different thicknesses of roof and wall iron, so that will make a difference depending on what you are working with.
I might try some Hades pellets or something with a hollow point next, to try and avoid the pellet going straight through. It's pretty easy to change barrels on the FX stuff, so it might even be worth switching to .177 for these pigeon/shed jobs.

I've used birdshot/ratshot in an old .22 before I got the PCP, and while it doesn't damage the iron much, it also doesn't damage birds much either! Shooting in my own shed with ratshot, I have noticed small flakes of galv floating down from the roof, if the sun is at the right angle, so ratshot isn't exactly damage free for galv iron.

My dad used to empty the BB's from the 12gauge an fill them with wheat, and use that on birds inside sheds . I can't remember the results he had with it, but I'd imagine it would knock them down and stun quite a few even if it didn't kill them. I guess everything is deadly to birds to a certain range, and safe on corrugated iron beyond a certain range - you just have to find out where those ranges are with experience! . I'd imagine the buyer of the hay wouldn't be happy if they knew there were lead pellets in their stock feed

Appreciate your great testing work JDM.
Yes, rimfire ratshot is not the answer, most birds do not die instantly and that's not on.
And pellets in the hay, well the lucerne and barley is for our breeding animals, and they are damn good at leaving behind any foreign objects, no matter how small.
I can see this every time, because in the trays in the feeders they leave behind all the little rocks, fence insulators, bits of wire and all the other flood rubbish that covers the paddocks in flood events that wash down from other farms and from littering humans. I'm certain the shot is left the same way and rolls out of the water drain holes in the feeders.

I'm going to have to get a low-powered, yet accurate, air rifle. Asking at the local gunshops doesn't give me any good info at all.
Most if not all people are chasing air rifles that are as powerful as possible, and nobody can tell me anything to help people with opposite needs.

[Flyonline]

I'm going to have to get a low-powered, yet accurate, air rifle. Asking at the local gunshops doesn't give me any good info at all.
Most if not all people are chasing air rifles that are as powerful as possible, and nobody can tell me anything to help people with opposite needs.

How much time/money/energy are you willing to spend? There are options to reduce a full powered spring rifle, the easiest being a shorter/weaker spring and/or a short stroke extension. If I were going this route after my experience playing with my 97k, I'd make sure there were options in springs before I bought the rifle i.e. buy a good rifle to fit available springs, rather than try and retro fit a spring that's hard to get to a rifle that was easy to get.

https://www.customairseals.com/ are aussie and do a number of springs, seals and other bits n pieces and I've had good dealings with them so far.

https://www.airrifletuning.com/ is another I've used that seems to have good reviews, he's based in Spain and there's plenty more shops in the UK. There's a heap of info in the UK air rifle forums on reducing power but keeping accuracy as they can shoot a sub 12ft/lb rifle without a license and many do for pest control and target shooting.

I've never understood the thinking that .177 will be less penetrative than .22 - think of a needle, the pointy end goes in further/easier than the back end!! My experience has been that I very rarely fail to get a pass through with .177, but often/usually with the .22 at similar FPE (though this is mostly on rabbits, less so on birds). Some time ago I shot various .177 pellets into a consistent matrix of a yogurt container with wet sand and didn't really see a huge difference in expansion on all the pellets. The 'hunting' version (crow magnums) did expand the best at 117% but were pretty inconsistent and rubbish beyond 15-20m, and the slugs I did try were ok also (Zan 10gr) but had a massive drop at distance compared to the Barracuda 8's that shot the best in my rifle. Most of the diablo style pellets were in the 105ish% expansion, so there's not a lot of energy dumped!

[bladeracer]

...was quite accurate with the old Diabolo and Wasp pellets we could buy at the hardware shop.

I just finished two 500rd boxes of those old 1970's Diabolo pellets doing air pistol practice. Accuracy wasn't great but it wasn't terrible either. In each box there were perhaps a dozen that were badly molded or even completely solid.

[JDM9691]

I've never understood the thinking that .177 will be less penetrative than .22 - think of a needle, the pointy end goes in further/easier than the back end!! My experience has been that I very rarely fail to get a pass through with .177, but often/usually with the .22 at similar FPE (though this is mostly on rabbits, less so on birds). Some time ago I shot various .177 pellets into a consistent matrix of a yogurt container with wet sand and didn't really see a huge difference in expansion on all the pellets. The 'hunting' version (crow magnums) did expand the best at 117% but were pretty inconsistent and rubbish beyond 15-20m, and the slugs I did try were ok also (Zan 10gr) but had a massive drop at distance compared to the Barracuda 8's that shot the best in my rifle. Most of the diablo style pellets were in the 105ish% expansion, so there's not a lot of energy dumped!

Interesting point. Doing some calculations (comparing 15.9 gr Exact jumbo diablo.22's, to 8.44 gr of the same make in .177), at the same fps that would mean the .177 has 53% of the kinetic energy of the .22, while having 63% of the frontal surface area, so yeah, there's probably not a lot in it once you take some deformation into it. I guess someone out there would have done ballistics gel tests - I enjoy testing stuff, but I won't be going that far!

I've only had this PCP a couple years and have only tried a couple types of pellets. I've been very happy with how the JSB exact shoots, and didn't need anything else until I started shooting birds in sheds. Centrefire projectiles need a pretty high fps to initiate expansion, so it makes sense that you've found that pellets don't expand much on impact. In my mind I was thinking that these pellets would mushroom and stop fairly quickly, but that's obviously not happening. It might still be worth trying some Barracuda Hunters or Hades if they still shoot OK. Perhaps some more research is in order.......thanks for your input.

[Wapiti]

Yes, they're the ones! Those pointy little buggers. And the Wasp in the red boxes with the rounded heads.
In the late '70s, I remember the Bris city council had a bounty on starlings, or I remember it did. We'd knock them off the power lines with those wasps. Goodness knows how many nicks we chipped out of the HT wire insulation.
No black balaclavad SERT blokes that stared at themselves in the mirror back then, lubing up. We all knew if we took a shot at something we weren't supposed to, we would be kicked all the way home and our oldies were going to have to sort out the bill to keep the communities respect.

Thanks also to Flyonline, I might see if I can get some advice from this Customairseals bloke, I betcha he'd give me something to write into a PTA.
I am getting concerned about any future firearms number caps up here, not going to say how many firearms I have but I would be in a lot of pain.
If only the politicians went off real world info, like if they actually cared to understand why a gun owner has different guns for different jobs, where there aren't alternatives.
But they don't.

[Ratsmitglied]

IME a Daisy powerline may work for you - multi-pump pneumatic, so you can vary the power level to suit, and mine has been pretty accurate. They're also cheap (~$200 new IIRC)