45/70 Death Knell

[Die Judicii]

I know SFA about this caliber,, but it must be falling from favor or about to be discontinued,
But, just by looking on various sites that deal with 2nd hand firearms,, there seems to be an incredible amount in this caliber offered for sale.
I see that they are pretty pricey to feed (factory ammo),, could that also be a deciding factor in their possible demise/extinction ?

Who's got one, and what are your opinions ?

[No1Mk3]

They will discontinue the 45/70 the day after the Sun dies. I have a Martini Henry in 45/70 and an 1873 Springfleld Trapdoor. If there are a lot for sale it may be NSW owners choosing what to delete, but there will always be buyers who want one, especially modern versions.

[bigrich]

I know SFA about this caliber,, but it must be falling from favor or about to be discontinued,
But, just by looking on various sites that deal with 2nd hand firearms,, there seems to be an incredible amount in this caliber offered for sale.
I see that they are pretty pricey to feed (factory ammo),, could that also be a deciding factor in their possible demise/extinction ?

Who's got one, and what are your opinions ?

i owned one , had to give it a go . had a bit of recoil with hot loads, i eventually got rid of it as it was not as flexible for hunting over varying ranges as 308, 270 , ect . projectiles are more suited for heavier game than pigs goats and deer i hunt . i saw a guy in NT flatten a buff at 80 meters with one chest shot from a old marlin with hot hand loads . the guy was a retired hunting guide and had used this gun like this for over 30 years, very effective in this role he reckoned . i wouldn't say 45-70 is going extinct , but i think it's a niche calibre . but hey , if people want to give one a go more power to 'em . i think the glut of 45-70's for sale is people finding their not what they expected the calibre to be , or as you point out DJ cost of ammo to those that don't reload

i remember seeing a lot of tikka t3's for sale a while ago in 300 win mag , overkill for most hunting and not pleasant for recoil . i guess at one point peer pressure was leading people to think you needed a 300 win mag for hunting . IMHO a mild calibre that's suitable for intended game, that has moderate recoil will allow you to recover quickly to chamber another round while keeping a sight picture on game, with accurate shot placement . this was the reasoning behind me asking about hunting with the 30-30 topic . jury's still out for me on that as the 30-30 is a bit niche in it's use as well .but a 30-30 would be fantastic if your coming across a mob of pigs at 50 meters. 44mag would give a few more shots in that scenario as well , and i'd prefer that over a 45-70 personally . i'm sure others will have a different opinion . cheers

[perentie]

I had a couple in 45-70 and a 45-90 . Only shot BP and lead in them for long range target work out to 1000 yds. My old mates in BP shooting had to give it up so to get someone to shoot with I gave them to a family of young fellows to get them started. I am reducing my guns and my long range target rifle is a 40-2.5. now.
I cant but a lot of the USA shooters can group 1 MOA with them. I got a first place at 600 yds with my 45-70 at the World Creedmoor Match held at Belmont in 2006. They make an ideal rifle for beginners to get into BP shooting. All mine are Rolling Blocks.

[Wapiti]

My view on life where shooting is concerned takes two routes.
First there's what I need to do, so something of adequate power to do all the "jobs" is the varying circumstances is best for me, in different "platforms". I don't follow trends, and definitely don't follow others, I'll make up my own mind. Results and ease of use determine it.
Second, there's having a bit of fun and enjoyment. So if I like a hunting rifle calibre, as opposed to a everyday working rifle covering the above must-do stuff above, practicality and "just adequate" doesn't apply. So the bloke who tells me for example, a 300WM is unnecessary or over the top, is definitely not someone I'll be interested in being like. The same person will tell you a rifle isn't needed or practical , but he'll be doing up an old car in the shed that to me is a POS for my life choices. Funny that eh?
But he's interested in it. But then why judge another's likes? So practicality then is not up to anyone else, or their opinions worth a damn.

So each to his own, I've never had a 45-70 and no, it's definitely not a day today practical thing for me, but I bet it's a lot of fun for bigger animals. So more power to who wants one, nobody needs to justify their choices to anyone but themselves. Opinions are like arseholes, don't they say?

[bladeracer]

I know SFA about this caliber,, but it must be falling from favor or about to be discontinued,
But, just by looking on various sites that deal with 2nd hand firearms,, there seems to be an incredible amount in this caliber offered for sale.
I see that they are pretty pricey to feed (factory ammo),, could that also be a deciding factor in their possible demise/extinction ?

Who's got one, and what are your opinions ?

I can't imagine it ever becoming obsolete, it's a very popular cartridge.

Might be that people are offloading rifles due to the new laws and they shoot less .45-70 than their other chamberings.

I still need to pick up two of them, a lever-action and a single-shot for long-range Cowboy.

[Wapiti]

I had a couple in 45-70 and a 45-90 . Only shot BP and lead in them for long range target work out to 1000 yds. My old mates in BP shooting had to give it up so to get someone to shoot with I gave them to a family of young fellows to get them started. I am reducing my guns and my long range target rifle is a 40-2.5. now.
I cant but a lot of the USA shooters can group 1 MOA with them. I got a first place at 600 yds with my 45-70 at the World Creedmoor Match held at Belmont in 2006. They make an ideal rifle for beginners to get into BP shooting. All mine are Rolling Blocks.

Is it true that in the wild west days, those real long 45/70 rolling block rifles were use to shoot bad guys at long range?
There would be something magical about a 5' long 45/70 hammer rifle with octagon barrel, coloured case hardened metal and real true walnut stock as an incredible hunting rifle, today as much as ever. With peep sights.

And looking at those incredibly tough people that live and trap in Alaska, 45/70 Marlins in SS with laminated stocks and big lever-loops for gloved hands seem to be very well liked and as relevant as ever. More so than all those new calibres supposed to supercede the old cartridge but just don't.

[bladeracer]

Is it true that in the wild west days, those real long 45/70 rolling block rifles were use to shoot bad guys at long range?
There would be something magical about a 5' long 45/70 hammer rifle with octagon barrel, coloured case hardened metal and real true walnut stock as an incredible hunting rifle, today as much as ever. With peep sights.

And looking at those incredibly tough people that live and trap in Alaska, 45/70 Marlins in SS with laminated stocks and big lever-loops for gloved hands seem to be very well liked and as relevant as ever. More so than all those new calibres supposed to supercede the old cartridge but just don't.

Have you read "Jack Hinson's One Man War"?
Hinson was basically a pacifist farmer when the civil war started, but when two sons were murdered by the army he became a sniper, with a custom-built single-shot rifle.

In the big Cowboy shoots we do long-range rifle matches. .22LR from abut 25m to 150m, pistol-caliber (.38 Special, .44-40, .45 Colt) lever-actions from about 50m to 200m, rifle-caliber (.30-30, .358Win, .45-70) lever-actions from 100m to 400m, then single-shot Sharps Rifles (mostly .45-70 but also other large calibers) from 400m out to 1000m.

[bigrich]

Is it true that in the wild west days, those real long 45/70 rolling block rifles were use to shoot bad guys at long range?
There would be something magical about a 5' long 45/70 hammer rifle with octagon barrel, coloured case hardened metal and real true walnut stock as an incredible hunting rifle, today as much as ever. With peep sights.

And looking at those incredibly tough people that live and trap in Alaska, 45/70 Marlins in SS with laminated stocks and big lever-loops for gloved hands seem to be very well liked and as relevant as ever. More so than all those new calibres supposed to supercede the old cartridge but just don't.

Have you read "Jack Hinson's One Man War"?
Hinson was basically a pacifist farmer when the civil war started, but when two sons were murdered by the army he became a sniper, with a custom-built single-shot rifle.

In the big Cowboy shoots we do long-range rifle matches. .22LR from abut 25m to 150m, pistol-caliber (.38 Special, .44-40, .45 Colt) lever-actions from about 50m to 200m, rifle-caliber (.30-30, .358Win, .45-70) lever-actions from 100m to 400m, then single-shot Sharps Rifles (mostly .45-70 but also other large calibers) from 400m out to 1000m.

just did a quick google on jack hinson , i think i found my next book to buy . once read it will go good on the bookshelf next to elmer keith , manfred von richtofen and others . thanks for the tip blade

[Wapiti]

Thanks you blokes, I'm getting a copy of that book pronto.

[Die Judicii]

Thanks you guys, very interesting reads, especially so Blade. Just goes to show why the likes of the Sharps were/are considered the Rolls Royce of weapons from way back then till now,,, and obviously persist. Unlike some of our modern day gimmicky flash in the pan items.

[perentie]

I had a couple in 45-70 and a 45-90 . Only shot BP and lead in them for long range target work out to 1000 yds. My old mates in BP shooting had to give it up so to get someone to shoot with I gave them to a family of young fellows to get them started. I am reducing my guns and my long range target rifle is a 40-2.5. now.
I cant but a lot of the USA shooters can group 1 MOA with them. I got a first place at 600 yds with my 45-70 at the World Creedmoor Match held at Belmont in 2006. They make an ideal rifle for beginners to get into BP shooting. All mine are Rolling Blocks.

Is it true that in the wild west days, those real long 45/70 rolling block rifles were use to shoot bad guys at long range?
There would be something magical about a 5' long 45/70 hammer rifle with octagon barrel, coloured case hardened metal and real true walnut stock as an incredible hunting rifle, today as much as ever. With peep sights.

And looking at those incredibly tough people that live and trap in Alaska, 45/70 Marlins in SS with laminated stocks and big lever-loops for gloved hands seem to be very well liked and as relevant as ever. More so than all those new calibres supposed to supercede the old cartridge but just don't.

Get a copy of "Quigley Down Under" with Tom Sellick. Sure its fiction but its filmed in West Oz. A good yarn.
They hold a Quigley match in the USA just for BP rifles . very popular.
Look at the Shiloh Sharps website. Beautiful.

https://shilohrifle.com/rifles/

[bigrich]

Thanks you guys, very interesting reads, especially so Blade. Just goes to show why the likes of the Sharps were/are considered the Rolls Royce of weapons from way back then till now,,, and obviously persist. Unlike some of our modern day gimmicky flash in the pan items.

i don't mean to digress off topic , but a few of my rifles are in calibres that are classics . 222 , 7x57 ,and my 98 mauser is soon to be 30-06 . they just work with no fuss . for practical reasons i have tikkas in 223 and 308 , brass is cheap and plentiful , don't care if i lose any cases .
so are you going to buy a 45-70 DJ ?
if a indian war party attack or a herd of bison come through you'd be set i do like the history aspect of some rifles and calibres . i'd customised a 1880 303 martini enfeild a few years back , issued to the colony of QLD with the broad arrow stamps on it . had it built up like a british stalking rifle of that period , custom timber , vernier cadet rear sights , then my eyes went downhill and i sold it out of frustration over the iron sights . shoulda kept it anyway

[bladeracer]

just did a quick google on jack hinson , i think i found my next book to buy . once read it will go good on the bookshelf next to elmer keith , manfred von richtofen and others . thanks for the tip blade

A mate of mine reckons he hasn't finished a book in decades, since he was a kid. But he loves his cowboy and civil war stuff so I loaned him the book and he read every word, and still recites parts of it back to me

[Wapiti]

I had a couple in 45-70 and a 45-90 . Only shot BP and lead in them for long range target work out to 1000 yds. My old mates in BP shooting had to give it up so to get someone to shoot with I gave them to a family of young fellows to get them started. I am reducing my guns and my long range target rifle is a 40-2.5. now.
I cant but a lot of the USA shooters can group 1 MOA with them. I got a first place at 600 yds with my 45-70 at the World Creedmoor Match held at Belmont in 2006. They make an ideal rifle for beginners to get into BP shooting. All mine are Rolling Blocks.

Is it true that in the wild west days, those real long 45/70 rolling block rifles were use to shoot bad guys at long range?
There would be something magical about a 5' long 45/70 hammer rifle with octagon barrel, coloured case hardened metal and real true walnut stock as an incredible hunting rifle, today as much as ever. With peep sights.

And looking at those incredibly tough people that live and trap in Alaska, 45/70 Marlins in SS with laminated stocks and big lever-loops for gloved hands seem to be very well liked and as relevant as ever. More so than all those new calibres supposed to supercede the old cartridge but just don't.

Get a copy of "Quigley Down Under" with Tom Sellick. Sure its fiction but its filmed in West Oz. A good yarn.
They hold a Quigley match in the USA just for BP rifles . very popular.
Look at the Shiloh Sharps website. Beautiful.

https://shilohrifle.com/rifles/

[bigrich]

I had a couple in 45-70 and a 45-90 . Only shot BP and lead in them for long range target work out to 1000 yds. My old mates in BP shooting had to give it up so to get someone to shoot with I gave them to a family of young fellows to get them started. I am reducing my guns and my long range target rifle is a 40-2.5. now.
I cant but a lot of the USA shooters can group 1 MOA with them. I got a first place at 600 yds with my 45-70 at the World Creedmoor Match held at Belmont in 2006. They make an ideal rifle for beginners to get into BP shooting. All mine are Rolling Blocks.

Is it true that in the wild west days, those real long 45/70 rolling block rifles were use to shoot bad guys at long range?
There would be something magical about a 5' long 45/70 hammer rifle with octagon barrel, coloured case hardened metal and real true walnut stock as an incredible hunting rifle, today as much as ever. With peep sights.

And looking at those incredibly tough people that live and trap in Alaska, 45/70 Marlins in SS with laminated stocks and big lever-loops for gloved hands seem to be very well liked and as relevant as ever. More so than all those new calibres supposed to supercede the old cartridge but just don't.

Get a copy of "Quigley Down Under" with Tom Sellick. Sure its fiction but its filmed in West Oz. A good yarn.
They hold a Quigley match in the USA just for BP rifles . very popular.
Look at the Shiloh Sharps website. Beautiful.

https://shilohrifle.com/rifles/

saw the Quigley down under movie years ago , bit too hollywood for me . didn't really like the scene where the locals get massacred. that sort of stuff went on , but i still don't like watching it .

you guys want to watch a really good period movie that's historically very accurate , and i thought a fantastic watch , "old henry" on netflix . i won't spoil the plot/story for anyone , but it's worth watching i reckon

[wrenchman]

a lot of guys get rid of them when they get a cheep box of ammo and try to shoot some thing and it don't perform like they thought.
lots of the stuff is loaded on the light side in case its shot in older guns if you don't intend to hand load look at good ammo I have seen the green box Remington 405 grain not pass through a deer at a rather close range it did kill it but the blood trail was long.

[Blr243]

I have an 1895 blued walnut. A bit heavy to carry Mines a safe queen. Casting your own bullets keeps reloading costs manageable

[mickb]

A proportion of people buy a 45-70 as the safe king, they just like the sound of the number. When times are lean dedicated owners hold into theirs but safe kings are first to go. The restrictions now are probably playing a part- I recall during Covid in the lockdown states they were going like hot cakes too. I dont think its any threat to the calibre though.

[bladeracer]

I forgot my .30-30 ammo yesterday so I used a mate's .45-70 Henry for the Pat Garrett stages. Definitely feeling it in the shoulder this morning, and they were only 15gn Trailboss loads

My .44-40 pistol loads were very hot though, I'm chronoing them today to see how hot. Firing at a steel plate at three meters I could almost see the shockwave around me I loaded them for the rifle but forgot that I've changed bullets. The new bullet goes up into the seating stem a little further, making the round .015" longer and they won't feed through the rifle so I'll have to use them in the pistols.

[Die Judicii]

so are you going to buy a 45-70 DJ ?

Nah Mate,, I was just curios as to why there are so many listed for sale lately that's all.
I've already got my safe Queen and King,,,,,,,,,,,

Both of which I currently have listed for sale, and so far had zero genuine inquiries for either.

One is loaded with Factory custom extras,, with very high class exhibition grade stock and is unfired. (a Tikka 308)
I had some guy ring me the other day expecting to get it for next to nothing.
His reasoning was that,,,,, "he could buy a brand new Tikka Stainless from his LGS for $1,800"

I said, yes you could, but it would not come with all the listed extras.
To which he replied,,,, "Oh but I don't even know what half of those are" (the listed accessories and gunsmith work done)

The other one I have listed for sale has not recieved one single inquiry, and is priced at less than or equivalent to other ads for near identical rifles.

[Wapiti]

Not sure if I mentioned this, but one gunshop in town said the phone was just about melting with the poor buggers down south trying to sell stuff that was now on the naughty list, or because they have too many rifles to make the political creatures down there happy.
They just don't have the market here for so much stuff.
But the premium brands are always considered apparently, the average stuff is just too oversupplied. And lever/button stotguns and rifles are being ignored as unwanted by the shops now. Everyone wants to offload all their marginal stuff and hang on to the good gear if they have such a low number allowed, which is absolutely understandable.
And terribly sad.

[bigrich]

Not sure if I mentioned this, but one gunshop in town said the phone was just about melting with the poor buggers down south trying to sell stuff that was now on the naughty list, or because they have too many rifles to make the political creatures down there happy.
They just don't have the market here for so much stuff.
But the premium brands are always considered apparently, the average stuff is just too oversupplied. And lever/button stotguns and rifles are being ignored as unwanted by the shops now. Everyone wants to offload all their marginal stuff and hang on to the good gear if they have such a low number allowed, which is absolutely understandable.
And terribly sad.

my local gun shop had people ringing them when WA's laws were introduced . the second hand market is saturated at the moment , not a good time to sell . haven't been down to the shop recently , but i expect it's the same thing with the poor buggers in NSW ringing them up. i've seen some nice stuff at good prices online , i'd like to save them from the crusher but my funds are very limited ATM . hopefully they'll find a good home .

[zbenga]

I have the marlin trapper (ruger made) and love it
sub MOA gun and I think with a better trigger it can be a half MOA gun they are that good.

if you reload is relatively cheap to shoot, straight wall cases are good at reloading and you can pick your loads, 300, 350 and 500 grainers do magic

they are so much fun to shoot thou