Applying for A&B with "Mental Illness" - ADHD

[Harrison S]

Gday fellas... Just wondering... im a qld bloke looking to apply for a qld A&B licence for recreational shooting and target shooting as well as primary production...... but .. as a kid I was diagnosed with adhd and just never really went off the medication..

Does this affect the chances of me actually being approved for a licence?... how many guys like me actually apply and get knocked back??

I have no criminal record and have never nor will I ever be of any potential harm/danger to anyone or anything... am a member of Shooter Union Australia... should I bother applying or will I just be wasting my time??... I guess we also need to keep in mind recent events and how they might effect my application or any application. Period.

[alexjones]

Firstly, if your applying for primary production why only A and B? Get your C and D as well.

Secondly, it's been that long since I applied but they might just want a doctors letter.

[bladeracer]

Gday fellas... Just wondering... im a qld bloke looking to apply for a qld A&B licence for recreational shooting and target shooting as well as primary production...... but .. as a kid I was diagnosed with adhd and just never really went off the medication..

Does this affect the chances of me actually being approved for a licence?... how many guys like me actually apply and get knocked back??

I have no criminal record and have never nor will I ever be of any potential harm/danger to anyone or anything... am a member of Shooter Union Australia... should I bother applying or will I just be wasting my time??... I guess we also need to keep in mind recent events and how they might effect my application or any application. Period.

It's only the more serious ones, like paranoia, schizophrenia, and such that prevent a licence I think, even depression is fine if it's under control, but put it in the application and get a letter from your doctor saying that he's fine with you owning firearms and that you aren't a threat to yourself or anybody else.

[Wapiti]

Firstly, if your applying for primary production why only A and B? Get your C and D as well.

Secondly, it's been that long since I applied but they might just want a doctors letter.

Mate, one step at a time.
You WILL NOT as a primary producer, (if he is really one legally taxibly-wise) even be considered for C & D until you have already successfully been granted A & B in Qld.
Ask me how I really know, from helping a few others lately do this out here.

Talking to my wife who deals with this pretty much daily, ADHD should not ever legally be considered a roadblock to getting a firearms license by medical practitioners, as it is these people who are generally the most successful, inventive and contributive people in society.
Send me a PM if you like, keep all of this off the internet.

[bladeracer]

Firstly, if your applying for primary production why only A and B? Get your C and D as well.

Secondly, it's been that long since I applied but they might just want a doctors letter.

CatC possibly, CatD ain't likely for recreational purposes.

You want to include your relevant medical history, so they can't say that you neglected to to tell them everything (thus making you not fit and proper), even though it won't affect the application, so I would include a doctor's letter just to avoid having to wait on a response asking for the letter and then having to chase it up.

[Wapiti]

Harrison...
Don't take any advice here before you apply except from a doctor - you NEED an up to date assessment if you are going to admit any previous character assessments in an application, which is no big deal, from a GP who actually knows what they are talking about and does not want you to be unfairly, and unprofessionally, judged by public servants only there with a restrictive agenda.

I am not saying anybody hide anything from the authorities.

You have asked, and I am offering some advice that is of a professional nature and advice that will have legal merit.

[Wapiti]

ADHD is NOT amental illness...

It is a condition.

[bladeracer]

ADHD is NOT amental illness...

It is a condition.

Yep, which is why it won't affect his application. But I think it's still better to proffer it than let Police discover it themselves.

[Wapiti]

Yes mate, which is why I said, better to clear it up by a medical professional who is on your side, prior to having a university educated gun hater knock you back.
With the bill paid for by Medicare.
Get the official good news, so you don't have to even mention it if its not a diagnosed mental illness.

Not take the internet forum "she'll be right mate" answer.
Old mate asked....

I'll dip out now. You lot can give the google medico-legal advice all you want. What I suggest is legally and medically irrefutable. Old mate can make his own mind up now.

[Damo300]

In QLD.

If you have a regular doctor, tell them you're intending in applying and
get them to write a character reference for your mental situation outlining that they see no reason why you cannot hold a valid firearms license.

I've even seen prior DV applications approved with a psychological evaluation.
It's all in the circumstance surrounding the order and why the order is in place to begin with. The law does not show context.

You can book these yourself through your local psychologist, however they are not cheap.

Do not bother trying for C, D yet.
H could be handy on the farm.

[NTSOG]

G'day Harrison S,

I am autistic and was diagnosed 30 years ago well before I applied for a firearms licence in Victoria. Autism, like ADHD, is not a mental illness. Both are developmental differences in brain development and function. That doesn't mean we who are 'different' cannot develop some mental illness like any other participant on this site. The Victorian Firearms Registry was not informed of me being autistic as it is not a crime to be different. Further I am not and have never been under treatment by a mental health practitioner such as a psychologist or psychiatrist.

It's up to you what you choose to do but check local regulations carefully and ascertain what information about you/your health you are required to disclose and how far back in your life you detail information. In short don't tell the local registry any more than you are required by Law because some minor bureaucrat processing your application will likely not have the clinical understanding of the difference between mental health issues and developmental difference. Hence your application may be put on hold and referred 'upstairs' by said bureaucrat if only to protect him/her-self in the bureaucracy. In my case there are several local Police officers who know I am autistic, but they are not involved in firearms registration. They just know me like any other bloke.

Jim

[For the record I spent 40 years working as a behaviour specialist and teacher in the disability field with people presenting with both developmental delay - mental retardation, ADHD and autism - and some with actual mental illness.]

[Bugman]

Pretty good advice here. If it was me with a doubt on my mental fitness, you can bet your bottom dollar I would be seeking advice and assistance from my local GP before anything. My wife tells me I am nuts and has been saying that for last 55 years. My GP does not concur with her assessment.

[NTSOG]

Bugman: "My wife tells me I am nuts ..."

I'm sure you're as sane as the next man ...

[ColdStart]

G'day Harrison S,

I am autistic and was diagnosed 30 years ago well before I applied for a firearms licence in Victoria. Autism, like ADHD, is not a mental illness. Both are developmental differences in brain development and function. That doesn't mean we who are 'different' cannot develop some mental illness like any other participant on this site. The Victorian Firearms Registry was not informed of me being autistic as it is not a crime to be different. Further I am not and have never been under treatment by a mental health practitioner such as a psychologist or psychiatrist.

It's up to you what you choose to do but check local regulations carefully and ascertain what information about you/your health you are required to disclose and how far back in your life you detail information. In short don't tell the local registry any more than you are required by Law because some minor bureaucrat processing your application will likely not have the clinical understanding of the difference between mental health issues and developmental difference. Hence your application may be put on hold and referred 'upstairs' by said bureaucrat if only to protect him/her-self in the bureaucracy. In my case there are several local Police officers who know I am autistic, but they are not involved in firearms registration. They just know me like any other bloke.

Jim

[For the record I spent 40 years working as a behaviour specialist and teacher in the disability field with people presenting with both developmental delay - mental retardation, ADHD and autism - and some with actual mental illness.]

I think your advice is very risky for Victorian applicants, I am unsure about Queensland.

In Victoria, the legal issue is not whether autism or ADHD is a “mental illness”. The issue is what the firearms application requires you to disclose.

The Victorian firearms form asks whether you currently have any medical or psychiatric condition or impairment that may directly impact your ability to hold a licence, and whether in the past 5 years you have been treated for mental health conditions, alcohol or drug problems, or another medical condition that could impact your ability to hold a licence. If you answer yes, you must provide a medical report.

ASD and ADHD are medical conditions in the ordinary clinical sense and could directly impact your ability to hold a licence. So you are required to answer yes

Both ASD and ADHD are spectrums, at the lesser end they may not affect your suitability at all, at the extreme end they may.

While I personal think ASD/ADHD shouldn't stop someone from getting a firearms licence purely on a condition, you are required to disclose this so an assessment can be made.

[NTSOG]

Coldstart: "The Victorian firearms form asks whether you currently have any medical or psychiatric condition or impairment that may directly impact your ability to hold a licence, and whether in the past 5 years you have been treated for mental health conditions, alcohol or drug problems, or another medical condition that could impact your ability to hold a licence."

ADHD and Autism Spectrum Disorder are variously described as mental health conditions or disorders in development - it depends on who's talking. For instance here's a result from a Google search:

"Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is a common mental health condition. While people may use different terms for ADHD, technically it does fall into the broad category of “mental illness.”

However, the D stands for disorder in ADHD and also Autism. Disorder means that the order of development from conception to adulthood was different or out of the normal order. It does not mean that a person is mentally ill. Being different is not a mental illness.

From a professional perspective having worked in some capacity with about 1500+ autistic and ADHD clients in 40 years I only referred to mental health specialists such as psychiatrists if I noted a likely mental 'health' issue that could not be explained behaviourally. I and my colleagues in the disability service for whom we worked never presumed a client was mentally ill because s/he was ADHD/ASD. This is important because of general public misconception: I worked in many of the now closed residential institutions for the 'mentally retarded', 1982-'94. In the largest such institution there was only one resident I knew who had a formal diagnosis of autism, however there were actually very many autistic people in all the institutions. Such people were generally considered schizophrenic by staff under the medical model that applied in those days. Some had actually been diagnosed as 'undifferentiated schizophrenics'' which led to them being treated incorrectly.

The primary concern in my post was that applicants give required information only due to the confusion of lay people including officers of the Registry as to the difference between mental illness per se and developmental conditions such as ADHD/ASD. As mentioned above misdiagnosis was common historically so that up to the early 1980s highly intelligent autistic children were often being diagnosed as Childhood Schizophrenics and few people had any understanding of specific learning disabilities and ADD which then became ADHD.

The general public still tends to ascribe a label of mental illness to people who just developed differently and may seem somewhat 'different'. In my 40 years working in the disability field, it was a constant battle to counter the perception of lay people that being developmentally different is not tantamount to being mentally ill. That's why I believe applicants should be careful about what they tell the Registry.

You may remember that in 1996 a few weeks after the Port Arthur killings the popular press in their collective wisdom concluded that Martin Bryant presented with Asperger's Syndrome. He is not AS/autistic. He is intellectually disabled - IQ about 66 - and had presented with features of a Conduct Disorder thorough childhood and adolescent. He was also seen in his early years by a child psychiatrist.

Underlying my specialist clinical concerns is the fact that the present far left Labor government has politicised many government departments to the point that I believe that objective assessment on many issues will not occur. Andrews and now Allan play politics on every issue just for votes. The recent firearms review being on such instance.

Jim

[ColdStart]

ADHD and Autism Spectrum Disorder are variously described as mental health conditions or disorders in development - it depends on who's talking. For instance here's a result from a Google search:

I think you have gotten confused with what I was saying, I agree that ASD/ADHD are not mental health conditions or psychiatric conditions.

My point was the form doesn't just ask that, it says "Do you currently have any medical or psychiatric conditions or impairments that may directly impact your ability to hold a licence, registration or approval for the reasons or activities being applied for or renewed?"

ASD/ADHD is a medical condition and maybe an impairment. So to that question you are required to answer "Yes" unless you are claiming ASD/ADHD isn't a medical condition?

The important part of this question is the word "may" as ASD/ADHD is a medical condition that "may"impact this, as its not asking about the person personally here and how it affects you, its asking if the person has a medical condition that "may" directly impact that affect the ability to hold a licence.

Its also asks as a separate question Do you currently have "A physical disability or any other medical condition (e.g. neurological, stroke or brain injury) which could impact your ability to hold a licence, registration, or approval?"

If you have ASD/ADHD you would again be required to answer "Yes" and again the important word is "could"

If you have these medical conditions, you need to declare them and then supply a "medical report from a doctor or psychologist who treated you, or is
familiar with your condition, outlining your suitability to hold a firearm licence and possess firearms."

Its a basic safety check as saying you have ASD/ADHD is pretty meaningless as a diagnosis, due to them being a spectrum. Thats why the police want a doctor or psychologist who treated you, or is familiar with your condition, outlining your suitability to hold a firearm licence and possess firearms.

If they say your suitable it shouldn't be an issue, but I think most people would want the police to check this first as a duty of care.

[ColdStart]

You may remember that in 1996 a few weeks after the Port Arthur killings the popular press in their collective wisdom concluded that Martin Bryant presented with Asperger's Syndrome. He is not AS/autistic. He is intellectually disabled - IQ about 66 - and had presented with features of a Conduct Disorder thorough childhood and adolescent. He was also seen in his early years by a child psychiatrist.

I think it’s worth noting that, if he were assessed today, he may well meet criteria for ASD, since both the diagnostic framework and clinical understanding have changed substantially since 1996.

It’s also important to be precise about intellectual disability: an IQ of about 66 would usually be considered mild intellectual disability.

[alexjones]

Martins intellect is a strange one. He could drive a car, travel the world alone and he lived alone. He was capable of doing a lot of things. He was just kind of slow.