300wm recipes.

[Damo300]

Looking for anyone throwing 180gr around the 3100fps mark.

I using Sierra 180gr SPBT.

What powder are you using?
Best I can get out of AR2217 is 2900, and that's almost compressed.
It is tac driving, but I would like it quicker. Factory 180gr federals are flinging at 3100.


The ADI chart shows figures of 2700fps with 2209, but I can get that out of an actual 308.

What's your goto recipe for a fast 300wm load?


Cheers.

[Wapiti]

Firstly Damo, congrats on your calibre choice.

What is your powder weight for 2217? Compressing the load is not a problem with the 300 and this powder.
Are you well versed on pressure signs? If so, you have a ways to go.
In my rifles, I find the ADI data (and uncle Nicks) quite conservative.
I have found 2213SC is awesome for 300WM, my 3 love it, strangely it is the number-1 accuracy powder. I find that more important than ultimate speed.
Better to still be crapping on 30-06 speeds, but at mild pressures. Components last so much longer.

A mate has easily gotten 3100 plus with 2225/180gn Woodleighs, and easily 3000 with 200 grainers, from a 24" barrel in a HS Precision rifle.
However, the recoil of this powder is much more noticeable.

I went to 300RUM to see what if any benefits of getting 250-350fps more easily, but then struck the issue of the speed overwhelming projectile construction in everything but solid copper, using 100gns or more of 2217. 150gn'ers easily going over 3,500 and 180's mid 3,300fps from a 26" barrel. And a Fed 215 Magnum primer, which can be hard to get. 2225 was unbelievably severe in recoil acceleration, my mates 416 RM felt easily less. Crazy.

[Damo300]

Thanks wapiti.
I love 30cal.
I have the 24inch t3x super varmint.
Beautiful rifle to shoot.
One of those purchases that you can confidently say is worth every cent, and some.

Im only a newbe to reloading in a sense. I tend not to veer outside the lanes I've been shown. That all comes later with experience.

I am up to 80.1gr of 2217 @ 2990fps.
The pill just touches the powder when seating.
No signs of overpressure that I can see.
I would consider myself semi competent in understandimg pressure signs, however still learning all the time. Never one to say I know everything and always trying to soak info off anyone who wants to talk about it.

I am seating to mag length too.
Lands are almost 5mm further out from memory.
I didn't bother working back because it won't fit in the magazine, and I'm not really a target shooter, although I don't mind a few shots with the boys in a bit of friendly competition.... haha.

Was thinking of dropping to 2213sc but if I can jam more 2217 in, I will, just don't think I'll get the extra 200fps I'm looking for is all.

[deye243]

Get a Waters Rifleman 300 Winchester Magnum magazine then you will be able to seat your projectile further out and use the correct amount of 2217 and 2225 .
Or get the single shot adapter I virtually use all my long range rifles single shot because you're a long way back you've got all the time in the world to load another round if need be

[Damo300]

Get a Waters Rifleman 300 Winchester Magnum magazine then you will be able to seat your projectile further out and use the correct amount of 2217 and 2225 .
Or get the single shot adapter I virtually use all my long range rifles single shot because you're a long way back you've got all the time in the world to load another round if need be

Deye243.
Thank you for that.

Due in may. I'll get onto them.
Get some 2225 as well.

[Wapiti]

Yes you're right, you won't be able to get the speeds that 2217 will give you. I only mentioned it as an alternative and one I found is strangely accurate.
2225 gave me the highest speeds.

But Dye243's tip on finding a mag with more space, these are usually steel mags that have thinner walls that will fit in the mag wells, hence more space. But a mate has a Tikka Super-varmint and the mags are proprietary plastic things, and does anyone make steel mags to fit in there?
I've heard, which may be incorrect , that to do that you need a new chassis stock like an MDT to take these mags?

He's right, if you can seat the bullets out, you get more volume in the pressure vessel hence can increase your powder charge to get more velocity without too much extra pressure jump. That's what Roy Weatherby routinely did in his rifles, the ones made in the US at least.

But regardless, if you tinker you will find a load that gives great accuracy without trying to sit just off the lands, and seating the bullets further out does give a bit more speed, but it's a very small percentage more. Finding the best powder, with the highest SAFE load for it, is the key.

Also remember, that due to tolerances in chambers and barrels, some rifles shoot markedly slower that another same example and there is nothing you can do about it.

I have two Sako 90's in 300WM, one a Walnut Hunter, the other a SS Peak, and the blued timber one shoots 100fps slower than the lighter one with tge same load. I also have a TRG42 in 300WM and it shoots super fast with 2209.
In it, with 71gns 2209 and a 168 Matchking I get the speeds easily of a maxed out 150gn bullet in the other two.

So sometimes, in some rifles no matter what brand, you get a slow shooter compared to another. You will find this out in your testing and I don't doubt people blow guns up trying to match the mythical speeds they sometimes here out there.

[deye243]

These are not steel they are milled aluminium and specifically designed for Tikka

[Damo300]

I got the mag out and measured the wall thickness, and I get 2.3mm at the front, and 2mm at the rear.
I'm sure the lands aren't far from that off my LOA now.

I've emailed Waters rifleman and they're up to something now, but will reply soon.


It flings 180gr factory loads at 3100 in the mag length I have now.

When I remove the pill and weigh the contents, it come to an average total of 68gr, or there abouts.
Whatever powder they're using seems to be flicking them nicely.
I need a cocktail bar of powders to experiment with.

Ill start with a magazine and wind these pills out a bit more.

[Wapiti]

Great thing about the Sakos is that the magazines for the action length used are steel, with even 150gn projectiles I can have them into the lands and still have room in the mag. I reckon that feature is more important than peoplke realise especially when they get to where Damo is right now with what he is trying to achieve.
Not just them though, there's hinge-floorplate designs like Rem 700, Mauser derivatives etc, that have ample mag lengths inside to allow projies to be seated out to get more powder capacity and lower pressures, and to better align the bullets entering the rifling straight.

A suggestion Damo, before you buy a machined Alum mag, try and have a look at one first and measure the length inside...
Alum mags CNC machined from a block have double/triple the thickness walls than a proper high tensile steel magazine, they have to because it's a fact of life here, tolerance of machine and strength wise.
Ones that I have seen do not give any advantage internally for loaded cartridge length but are made longer so you can get a few more bullets in there instead.
An aluminium mag may not give you any more room in the internal length, unless it's removing a design fault like a thick molded in block to make an action meant for a much bigger cartridge, fit a smaller one. Like a Tikka 223. But I can't imagine that would affect the 300 action, it would not need the blocking out would it?

I take the trouble to mention this and type like a clown for half an hour here instead of a cheap one-liner, because a mate down here who is a pro-shooter after spending his days working the farm, had bought a Tikka after wearing out another brand. 223 of course.
The plastic mags only held an insulting amount of ammo, and he found the feed lips wore out after professional use very fast.
He bought some longer ones made by Tikka, but the same thing happened.
Then he bought a few aluminium Lucky13 longer mags, and the feedlips shaved off just as fast.
He's using Howa rifle now, and has bought a HS Precision stock from The Barn and a handfull of steel MDT mags that fit the WA-made Atlas-Worx bottom metal, and he's all smiles.

On aluminium machined mags, I went through this with our 7600's and alum Lucky 13 mags, They wore out really fast, the feed lips strip out after a few hundred rounds. Especially nasty are the first two or three coming from the full mag, because of the spring pressure exerted when the mag is full. The aluminium shavings were easy to see.

Maybe your usage needs are not the same as these from a wear perspective, or the Waters ones have found some special aluminium grade that doesn't do that and have some more room internally for what you're after.
I'm just suggesting you check these things give you any advantages and your money is not spent for no gain.

[Damo300]

I decided to go back and measure the lands.

I measured several times (wedging a projectile in a deprimmed cartridge with bolt) and came out every time at 90.94mm / 3.580in.

Now as I understand it, I can work back from the lands in say 0.020in increments can I not?
Load up at 3.560in, 3.540in working away from lands?



Thing is, when I look in the manual it gives me a max COL of 84.84mm / 3.340in which is nowhere near where I am.

Then, if I load a 180g Sierra SBT to 0.020 off the lands, I'm only seating halfway down the neck as it is a boat tail and tapers off.

What am I missing here?

[Wapiti]

You're not missing anything mate. What you've just found is the ridiculous tolerances in the rifle you have there, and how it was made regardless of what you set out to achieve here.
Remember that there are many blokes that use 300 mags with 220 and up round nose bullets, both soft point and solids, and without that long throat in your Tikka, you would have to have these bullets seated so deep it would compromise your load. I.e take up a sh*tload od volume having to seat the bullet do deep to stay off the lands.

Then something people forget when they buy a rifle, is don't look at the pathetic short magazine lengths in some brands. Meaning again, having to seat bullets so deep to fit in short actions designed for multiple calibres, instead of one made for the cartridge size.
And again, how cheap plastic magazines, add to thatcnc made alloy compromises, have to be markedly thicker than high tensile steel, further restricting you in both length and capacity.

If you are using this ammo in the bush, you need to really get one full calibre of projectile in the neck for proper grip especially when ramming a cartridge in the chamber fast in a hurry. This means the parallel section of the bullet. The unnecessary boat tail on some hunting bullets means more projectiles in the case as well as the full calibre. Further restricting performance.

Again, if you want to use that bullet, or that rifle, you're just going to have to seat it in the case to fit the mag, and that's it. If it won't shoot good enough, you'll have to try another powder, or another bullet. Or, another rifle.

[Damo300]

Thanks wapiti.
Massive help.

I do have these pills working very nicely, just bored and figured I'd try and get them going a bit faster.

I'll research some longer, heavier pills and leave these ones for my cold bore shots.
Boat tails fly nice, but take up powder space.


Can I load some at that 0.020in off the lands just to try them out, or do I need to get them seated deeper?
Not hunting with them, just killing paper.

[Wapiti]

Mate if your gear is consistent enough, you can do your seating in .010's if you want.
You can even try to just kiss the lands as a way to centre the projectile perfectly and avoid any possibility the point gets the opportunity to enter even slightly off-centre.
Some people get one-hole groups by pushing into the lands hard. Obviously, they have adjusted their powder charge down to compensate from the steep pressure curve this generates.
Forget doing this is you expect to unload that cartridge and not fire it, because the bullet will stay jammed in there and powder will go everywhere and end your day at the range.

This is exactly the same as a countersunk-head screw dropped through a hole with a countersink cut in it, effectively exactly centring it.
But for this to work, your case has to be exactly centred in the chamber it sits in, and this is achieved by the shell itself being a nice fit lengthwise, so that the bolt-face can push and centre the shell into the counterbore that the tapered neck of that case has in the chamber.
The same way that screw centres in its tapered, counterbored hole.
I hope that makes sense.
That above is in your sizing regime and to get the most from seating depth differences, you have to take out this variation as well, at the same time.
Sounds fussy and complicated, but in no way is it.

Think of it like this... if the projectile enters the lands dead centre, because it's still held in the case neck that's dead-centre in the chamber as it does, dead centre to the bore-line (hopefully, that the whole thing is in a dead straight line) then that's the best you can do.

Another thing that people don't ever think of is that, the practice of seating the projectile in or out further, consistently, slightly changes the pressure/burning curve as well. This can find you a "sweet spot" in your group size.
You can burn up a lot of components trying to find this point, but it is one of a few points there that will do this for you.


I did find in my 338 Lapua that 10 thou from the lands worked the best with the powder and projectile I eventually settled on.
On cases I partially FLS deliberately (not neck sized only, even though I use bushing dies exclusively in guns I want this performance in) to give me the perfect length for a perfectly centred, slightly "crush" feel on the bolt handle.
Remember, a partially FLS fired case grows fractionally longer in the die before the shoulder is bumped back and you make it too short.
I think Nick Harvey explains this in great detail in his loading manual, I suggest you buy one and read it.
I tried 10, 20, 30 thou etc jump, why? Because I had to settle on a number, one I could at least be as consistent as my gear would allow and try it.
Because that's all you can do.

[Duramax]

Some things i know about 300WM having used it and a number of variants in Fly over the years. Factory chambers for some reason have very excessive clearance in the leade allowing blow by to rob you of velocity. The shorter the barrel the faster the powder required to get useable velocity so my suggestion is use 2209, Re19 or Re26. Longer barrels in the 28 to 30 inch range with a tight leade get around 3100 fps with bullets in the 200 to 210 range, 180s over 3200 fps.
The one restriction i see most commonly beside powder choices from ADI not being ideal is brass choice. If Lapua or RWS cases are not used, then you will never see speed or longevity.
Trying to replicate factory velocity is the same as with 6.5 Creed, they use special proprietary blends we cannot get and ADI powders often fall betwixt and between in burn rate of many cartridges. Long chase to ultimately burn out a barrel.