Open Sights Aiming Question

[MG5150]

G'day All

I recently acquired a Lee Enfield .303.

It's got open sights and the dealer told me it was zeroed for 400m, which is the closest distance, and to aim low if it's anything shorter than that.

Just checking if this is correct?

I used a ballistics calculator with the ammo details (174g FMJ by PPU) and it said 11.45 inches high at 100m so I guess to aim about 30cm low.

I'll knock up a big 1mx1m target next time I'm at the farm and do some proper testing but would love a steer in the right direction.

Also, any tips for shooting open sights?

Cheers.

[Wapiti]

My tip, using any open sights, is to NOT use a strict 6'oclock hold as taught in pistol shooting (which I've never done anyway), but instead, "modify" it a little and have the point you want to hit cut in half by the tip of the front sight.
Many range shooters will poo poo this, but when wanting as precise a hit as possible on animals, especially with all different critters having completely different vital-zone sizes, this works perfectly for me.
To me, target shooting is not game shooting.
A modification to this I've tried, is having the tip of the front sight at the 1/3rd up from the 6'oclock bottom of the complete diameter of the chest vital zone.
Unless it's rabbits in the farmhouse yard, forget headshots.

Anyway, that's what I do with both normal open sights and peep sights, which if it's at all possible, I ditch the primitive standard sights for peeps. Ghost rings actually.
I believe a No.4 has peeps?
How much of a step up was this idea? Heaps.

[MG5150]

Thanks for taking the time to comment.

I'm afraid I don't know what a 6:00 hold is, do you mind explaining that?

[Wapiti]

It's where the top of the front sight is sat at 6 o'clock of, say, the circle of a target down at the range.
This is so that you can see the whole target or bullseye.
So, imagine the whole black bull on a paper target is floating above the front sight, with the tip of the front blade at the 6 o'clock position.
The idea is to not to obscure the target, supposedly it's faster.
But in the bush, it's unsuitable.

Can anyone see the problem with this "shooting range" way of shooting in the bush?
At the gun club, all the targets are at known ranges, all are at known diameters, so you know where to aim or hold-off or adjust to hit your X or 10.

In the bush, the vital zone of the animal varies wildly, the animal and it's size vary wildly, and the ranges vary wildly.
Not trying to be a smartarse, but in the bush the 6'oclock hold everyone teaches nowadays at clubs is to me, the recipe of making animals suffer unnecessarily.
So the strike point of my projectile is at the very tip of my front sight, and usually, because iron sights are so close to the bore centreline (unlike the massive scopes everyone needs nowadays), the effective range you can shoot in the bush is all the same POI with open sights.
Because hopefully, nobody shoots at an unknown size pig or a deer at 250m with open sights. Again, just my opinion.

[Wapiti]

gay6oclock.jpg (663.04 KiB) Viewed 712 times

[bladeracer]

G'day All

I recently acquired a Lee Enfield .303.

It's got open sights and the dealer told me it was zeroed for 400m, which is the closest distance, and to aim low if it's anything shorter than that.

Just checking if this is correct?

I used a ballistics calculator with the ammo details (174g FMJ by PPU) and it said 11.45 inches high at 100m so I guess to aim about 30cm low.

I'll knock up a big 1mx1m target next time I'm at the farm and do some proper testing but would love a steer in the right direction.

Also, any tips for shooting open sights?

Cheers.

SMLE, or a No.4 or No.5 Rifle? The SMLE has an open rear sight halfway along the barrel, the No.4/5 has an aperture site on the receiver.
I don't remember where mine was zeroed when I got it but it could be zeroed anywhere after all these decades. The only way you'll know for sure is to put a target up and poke some holes in it.

Whereabouts in Vic are you? If you're close to Little River get along to the Military Rifle Club shoots, and be sure to attend the ANZAC shoot next year. If you're up near the border get onto LERAA and go along to their shoots at Rankins Springs.

My brother-on-law and I used my SMLE and it was shooting high left for both of us at the ANZAC so I need to get out in the paddock and zero it soon, and we both need to get some practice. I'm hoping to drag another mate to the ANZAC next time as well.

As for using the sights, I really can't see the front sight at all so I use the sight protector ears. I think I've got the sight set at 200yd currently and from memory I think we were about 150mm high at 100yd, 200mm high at 200yd and 300mm high at 300yd - I didn't take notes. When I shot at Rankins Springs I was using different sight positions but was holding on the bottom edge of the big target boards as I couldn't clearly see the aiming points. According to my notes from then for the 200m targets I was using the 350yd position to put my shots 600mm high. At the 300yd targets I was using the 425yd sight to put the shots 600mm high. I did work out a hold at 500yd but on the day the targets blew over so we dragged them back to 500m which changed my hold. I didn't record the hold I used for that.

I'm using 174gn Bertram Bullets on 38gn of AR2206H at 3.050" making 2300fps.

[MG5150]

So what you're saying is have the front sight halfway through wherever you want the bullet to hit?

Like so?

Screenshot 2026-05-19 at 9.28.56 pm.jpg (325.73 KiB) Viewed 656 times

Was the 6:00 hold based on a specific distance?

[bladeracer]

I agree, dead-on is the only viable zero for field shooting, though it's only going to be zeroed at two distances - between those two points you'll want to hold low, and past the far zero you'll be holding over. If you have significant bore-to-sight offset, at close distances you'll want to hold high as well.I have some of my pistols set up for six-o'clock hold for ISSF targets (100mm high at 25m) and some zeroed on centre at 25m for practical shooting, simply because it's hard to make out the sights against a black bull. I don't set any rifles up for six o'clock hold. However, for long-range target shoots where I can't see the aiming points on the target boards, I'll work out holds that let me sit the entire target board on top of the rear sight, and place my bullets half the target height high at that distance.

It's where the top of the front sight is sat at 6 o'clock of, say, the circle of a target down at the range.
This is so that you can see the whole target or bullseye.
So, imagine the whole black bull on a paper target is floating above the front sight, with the tip of the front blade at the 6 o'clock position.
The idea is to not to obscure the target, supposedly it's faster.
But in the bush, it's unsuitable.

Can anyone see the problem with this "shooting range" way of shooting in the bush?
At the gun club, all the targets are at known ranges, all are at known diameters, so you know where to aim or hold-off or adjust to hit your X or 10.

In the bush, the vital zone of the animal varies wildly, the animal and it's size vary wildly, and the ranges vary wildly.
Not trying to be a smartarse, but in the bush the 6'oclock hold everyone teaches nowadays at clubs is to me, the recipe of making animals suffer unnecessarily.
So the strike point of my projectile is at the very tip of my front sight, and usually, because iron sights are so close to the bore centreline (unlike the massive scopes everyone needs nowadays), the effective range you can shoot in the bush is all the same POI with open sights.
Because hopefully, nobody shoots at an unknown size pig or a deer at 250m with open sights. Again, just my opinion.

[bladeracer]

So what you're saying is have the front sight halfway through wherever you want the bullet to hit?

Like so?

Screenshot 2026-05-19 at 9.28.56 pm.jpg

Was the 6:00 hold based on a specific distance?

Yes, but only if the target is close to your zero distance. If you zero the rifle to be dead-on at 100m say, at 50m you'll want to sit the target on top of the sight as your bullet will be a few inches high, and at 200m you'll want to hold your sight above the target as your bullet will be a few inches low.

Yes, six-o'clock holds are distance-specific, but so are all zeros.

[Tinker]

The idea of a 6 oclock hold is it's more consistent. It's much easier to sit the round black target just on top of the black foresight, rather than try to judge when it's in the middle of a black target. It's not "gay", it's just only useful for target shooting.
Which is why the military use "tin hat" targets, which are a horizontal half-moon. You're then aiming at the centre of the circular target, with the half-moon just sitting on top of your foresight.

standard tin hat.jpg (22.06 KiB) Viewed 631 times

[No1_49er]

G'day All
I recently acquired a Lee Enfield .303.
It's got open sights and the dealer told me it was zeroed for 400m, which is the closest distance, and to aim low if it's anything shorter than that.
Just checking if this is correct?
I used a ballistics calculator with the ammo details (174g FMJ by PPU) and it said 11.45 inches high at 100m so I guess to aim about 30cm low.
I'll knock up a big 1mx1m target next time I'm at the farm and do some proper testing but would love a steer in the right direction.
Also, any tips for shooting open sights?
Cheers.

After looking at the several answers that have been offered, not one of the respondents enquired about what type of shooting you intend engaging in.
Service Rifle Target, or field??
Dependant on your intention will have a huge bearing on what the correct "answer" should be.
Apparently, a 6 o/c hold is "gay". How so, when a "top-hat" or even an ISSF target is presented. In those cases, a 6 o/c aim is definitely preferred.
Field shooting is a different thing, altogether.

For further discussion, it would be preferable if you indicated what specific type of shooting you want to participate in.

[Wapiti]

Like this mate.
Probably could've drawn it to be more forward in the centre of the heart-lung zone, but you get the idea.

Using a 6 o'clock hold on a living creature, of an unknown exact kill zone size at every-shot different ranges is unacceptable and is not acceptable for bush shooting, unless you consider shot placement something that you can get a few shots at to get right, something only a paper target at a range that just sits there allows.
To me, there is no argument and is unacceptable on a living creature, unless of course you'd find wounding acceptable. Which I'm sure a mature, mentally stable person does not.

likethismate.jpg (673.39 KiB) Viewed 529 times

[bladeracer]

I would say the opposite, holding dead-on when you are at a distance that you know your bullet will be high or low is unacceptable on live targets. Hold dead-on only when your target is close to the distance you are zeroed at. If you are closer than that hold a little under your target, if you are further than your zero distance then hold on the top of the target. This technique was used for centuries before adjustable sights were commonplace, and still is.

A good example of a slow but potent cartridge that has been used for hunting all types of game for 150 years now is the .45-70. I don't know what the "normal" zero distance was back in the 1870's (for hunting) would be but I would expect it to be quite close for taking jackrabbits and turkeys and such. If you zeroed it at 50yd it'd be maybe 6" low at 100yd, and 18" low at 150yd. If you zeroed it at 100yd it'd be about 3" high at 50yd and 10" low at 150yd. You can't expect to make good hits holding dead-on at all distances. The .22LR has a similar trajectory but obviously lacked the potency for 150yd kills.

Like this mate.
Probably could've drawn it to be more forward in the centre of the heart-lung zone, but you get the idea.

Using a 6 o'clock hold on a living creature, of an unknown exact kill zone size at every-shot different ranges is unacceptable and is not acceptable for bush shooting, unless you consider shot placement something that you can get a few shots at to get right, something only a paper target at a range that just sits there allows.
To me, there is no argument and is unacceptable on a living creature, unless of course you'd find wounding acceptable. Which I'm sure a mature, mentally stable person does not.

likethismate.jpg

[No1_49er]

Why is there an assumption that the OP intends shooting game?
If his smellie is for target shooting, perhaps a discussion about 6 o/c hold might be appropriate.
Sometimes, shooting is about putting holes in paper; indeed, some people never shoot for meat.

[Wapiti]

For a bit of fun just before dark I loaded up 10 308 cartridges with 150 SST's and took an open sighted rifle into the bull paddock (peep sights, ghost rings) and lay prone with a Magpul sling to steady the rifle. No bipod, no rest. Being wobbly won't prove anything.

I took the shots at a black-painted Bisalloy pig I have at the edge of the paddock, it's 35cm wide and in proportion of a boar, cut out with an oxy and hanging from a pipe frame. As I do. My Leupold pocket rangefinder said 120m.
I tried the 6 o'clock hold, and hit the target 5 times. Hit the bottom of the pig, at his dick and just above.
Then I tried a centre hold, and hit centre 5 times. Big deal, it wasn't a tiny target.
But it was a good end to the day, making loud noises.
Point was though, I knew the size of the target, the range, and the fact that the rifle was sighted in for a dead-on hold. The pig being painted matt-black, and the sights being black, wasn't an issue at all. But if it was a real live small pig, range unknown, f**k that maybe it's just me, but no way will i run a 6'oclock hold and have to guess and allow for the hits being a certain point at some exact distance 6 inches or whatever above the tip of the front sight.
each to his own, my opinion and what i do works for me perfectly, others will find what works for them with experience. Hopefully not bad experience.

[MG5150]

[
Dependant on your intention will have a huge bearing on what the correct "answer" should be.
Apparently, a 6 o/c hold is "gay". How so, when a "top-hat" or even an ISSF target is presented. In those cases, a 6 o/c aim is definitely preferred.
Field shooting is a different thing, altogether.

For further discussion, it would be preferable if you indicated what specific type of shooting you want to participate in.

I intend to use this rifle for deer hunting, and assume that most of the shots would be within 100-150m as you can rarely see beyong that where I hunt anyway because it's so thick.

That's why I was asking about the open sights being set to 400m but aiming low as most shots would be 100m

[MG5150]

Why is there an assumption that the OP intends shooting game?
If his smellie is for target shooting, perhaps a discussion about 6 o/c hold might be appropriate.
Sometimes, shooting is about putting holes in paper; indeed, some people never shoot for meat.

Sorry mate, I created a thread a few months back when I put in a PTA about how I was getting this rifle for a themed hunting video (hunting deer like a digger) so most of the people who read that thread are commenting here with the prior knwoledge

[bladeracer]

I intend to use this rifle for deer hunting, and assume that most of the shots would be within 100-150m as you can rarely see beyong that where I hunt anyway because it's so thick.

That's why I was asking about the open sights being set to 400m but aiming low as most shots would be 100m

If it is shooting high I would definitely modify the front sight to get it shooting to point of aim. You can measure yours and hunt down taller ones online, or weld a bit onto yours and file it down to what you need.

With my rifle and my 174gn 2300fps load, a 100m zero puts the bullet about 20mm high at 50m, and 75mm low at 150m, so it's pretty flat-shooting at close range. It's flatter than the .30-30 for example. Under ideal conditions I can really only guarantee about 80mm groups at 100m though, shooting rested, against a well-defined target. Against a fur wall in shadow while leaning against a tree I probably wouldn't attempt more than 100m max. And offhand wouldn't be past 50m I reckon.

[MG5150]

Hey guys, here are a few photos.

IMG_8120 2.jpg (314.5 KiB) Viewed 210 times

Here are the site adjustments - the top line appears to be on the 4 (400m?) mark and won't go lower? She said it was set up for 400m and can't be set lower, although I can see the number 2

IMG_8117 2.jpg (349.97 KiB) Viewed 210 times

here is the sight

IMG_8125.jpg (258.01 KiB) Viewed 210 times

[bladeracer]

Hey guys, here are a few photos.

The attachment IMG_8120 2.jpg is no longer available

Here are the site adjustments - the top line appears to be on the 4 (400m?) mark and won't go lower? She said it was set up for 400m and can't be set lower, although I can see the number 2

The attachment IMG_8117 2.jpg is no longer available

here is the sight

The attachment IMG_8125.jpg is no longer available

This is your sight position.

[bladeracer]

Have you done any shooting with it at all to know if it is actually shooting high?

[perentie]

Dont go by where the body of the sight is, It is on the 400 mark but go by the centre line on the body and its below the 200 mark.
I see someone has already posted that. Sorry.

[MG5150]

I took four shots at a drum from about 40m away

first two shots were aiming at the ridge on the upper 3rd, the 2nd two were aiming at the bottom of the barrel level with the ground.

I was using a tree for a rest. Will pattern peroperley with a target the next long weekend.

Screenshot 2026-05-21 at 2.31.47 pm Medium.jpeg (177.15 KiB) Viewed 100 times

[bladeracer]

I took four shots at a drum from about 40m away

first two shots were aiming at the ridge on the upper 3rd, the 2nd two were aiming at the bottom of the barrel level with the ground.

I was using a tree for a rest. Will pattern properly with a target the next long weekend.

Screenshot 2026-05-21 at 2.31.47 pm Medium.jpeg

Looks like it perhaps is zeroed out around 300m or so if it's four or five inches high at 40m.
Definitely put in some practice before going hunting with it, these are not precision rifles. I have four and all will reliably group 5rds in about 1.5" at 50m off a good rest, even with a scope.

[MG5150]

I sent the same photo of the sight adjustment to the dealer just asking her to confirm the 400m zero and she told me to set it to the 200m sights along with this diagram...

Screenshot 2026-05-21 at 5.01.06 pm Large.jpeg (182.04 KiB) Viewed 62 times

She either gave me a bum steer on the original zero or got it mixed up with one of the other rifles she had there.

Is it safe to assume you don't zero these for less than 200 with this type of sight? (without mods)

[fussy]

Zero for whatever floats your boat.
I have the same rifle (even same year, same sights).
I never adjust the rear sight, because I don't use it beyond 200m.

You can tap the foresight left/right (UNLOADED and BOLT OUT...sucking eggs, hopefully).
You can file the foresight down to make the bullet go up.
You can file the rear sight notch deeper to make the bullet go lower.
At 200m max, I'm happy with minute of heart, so test it with your planned loads first, whether factory or reloads.

Practice shooting in field conditions, eg. Jacket or not, sling, trees, sit/stand/kneel. This is one of the biggest things with iron sights and hunting.

[bladeracer]

I sent the same photo of the sight adjustment to the dealer just asking her to confirm the 400m zero and she told me to set it to the 200m sights along with this diagram...

Screenshot 2026-05-21 at 5.01.06 pm Large.jpeg

She either gave me a bum steer on the original zero or got it mixed up with one of the other rifles she had there.

Is it safe to assume you don't zero these for less than 200 with this type of sight? (without mods)

If it's already shooting four-inches high at 40m with the sight at the 100yd position, raising the rear sight will make it shoot even higher. Front sights come in heights from -.030" up to +.090" (3mm difference), in .015" increments from memory. Or you can do some shooting, calculate the height you need, and modify the sight you have. Make it slightly taller than you need and make further adjustment with a file. But decide on precisely what load you are going to shoot in the rifle first.

Filing the rear notch will have no effect at all on your zero, you would have to file the top of the rear site down as well. Leave the rear and modify the front.

[bladeracer]

You can file the rear sight notch deeper to make the bullet go lower.

The bottom of the notch has nothing to do with your zero, it could be six-inches deep and it wouldn't matter, only the top surface of the rear sight forms your sight picture.

[Tinker]

These sights are calibrated for military MkVII ammunition, firing a 174 grain flat based (and open based) full metal jacket projectile over cordite at 2440fps. As far as I know, no one has ever succeeded in replicating the ballistics of that round using modern powders and projectiles. Modern ammo won't match the elevation settings marked on the sights. There are, however, plenty of accurate loads for the .303, and several reasonable factory loads (eg PPU).
Rather than get caught up in the sights at this point, I'd suggest you get some .303 hunting ammo, either your own handloads, or PPU 150gr or 180gr, and try a few different types to see what suits your rifle. Set the rifle up on a nice firm front rest and fire some 5 shot groups at 50m or so, WITH THE SIGHTS ALL THE WAY TO THE REAR (like in the picture above). Pick the best group, and then zero your rifle to that ammo.
Don't file the rear sight down. If you get it wrong, replacements are expensive. Do the adjustments on the foresight only, as per Blade's post above.
Once you've zeroed at 50m, set some targets up at other ranges (maybe 100m and 150m) and see where the shots land. I doubt you'll see much difference in elevation from 50m to 150m.

[bladeracer]

These sights are calibrated for military MkVII ammunition, firing a 174 grain flat based (and open based) full metal jacket projectile over cordite at 2440fps. As far as I know, no one has ever succeeded in replicating the ballistics of that round using modern powders and projectiles. Modern ammo won't match the elevation settings marked on the sights. There are, however, plenty of accurate loads for the .303, and several reasonable factory loads (eg PPU).
Rather than get caught up in the sights at this point, I'd suggest you get some .303 hunting ammo, either your own handloads, or PPU 150gr or 180gr, and try a few different types to see what suits your rifle. Set the rifle up on a nice firm front rest and fire some 5 shot groups at 50m or so, WITH THE SIGHTS ALL THE WAY TO THE REAR (like in the picture above). Pick the best group, and then zero your rifle to that ammo.
Don't file the rear sight down. If you get it wrong, replacements are expensive. Do the adjustments on the foresight only, as per Blade's post above.
Once you've zeroed at 50m, set some targets up at other ranges (maybe 100m and 150m) and see where the shots land. I doubt you'll see much difference in elevation from 50m to 150m.

I've never fired any factory or military ammo in any of my .303's, only my own handloads. I don't know how close the LERAA guys get their loads to the sight trajectory. I did calculate the full curve out to 2000yds when I was working up my loads. I calculated the curve of the sight positions, and the curve of my own load. I'm not sure I ever bothered calculating the curve of the MkVII bullet though since I was never going to use it.
These are what I measured the minutes to be for each sight position from 200yd out to 2050yd.
200yd 4.60
300yd 9.54
400yd 12.20
500yd 16.79
600yd 22.97
700yd 30.21
800yd 37.28
900yd 47.16
1000yd 56.87
1100yd 69.05
1200yd 81.75
1300yd 98.22
1400yd 114.53
1500yd 134.41
1600yd 156.37
1700yd 180.37
1800yd 208.76
1900yd 238.10
2000yd 269.74
2050yd 283.32
I measured the sight radius at each position as it reduces by 12mm as it is raised higher. I made a note that (taken from those measurements) the BC from 50yd to 1400yd follows a BC of .380, but from 1500yd out it drops to about .300 as the bullet drops through about 900fps.

I do have quite a bit of commercial and military ammo though, I picked up some nice MkVI RN and MkVII ammo yesterday.