How to avoid reloading issues of the dangerous kind?

[Wapiti]

Morning all,
I was knocking up a few cartridges to try some different open sight techniques using cases collected from the used stash. The "used stash" are cases shot in the field and are difficult to separate from how many firings each has had, what rifle etc as I tend to use a few different action working types in the same calibre. I use the same calibre in 3 action types because it is the most effective cartridge for the feral animals we have here.
And factory ammo in the same cal, and with so many jobs it usually ends up the cases are all mixed together.

How do you tell when a case is going to fail?
Reloading manuals and "gun writers" in magazines say the same old things:
Count each case firing, (rubbish, some brands last twice as long as others, and some action types destroy cases twice as fast)
Visual inspection - looking for that bright ring or line around where the base of the case internally and the wall section joins due to brittleness in that area
Check internally for case head separation (the method everyone says they use is false information)
Routinely anneal necks (WTF for, my necks NEVER split, ever, before the cases fail elsewhere). And you CANNOT anneal at the base where my cases always fail. So annealing is just useless for my issues.

In my cases, cases fail by separation every time.
Usually, they separate when they are ejected, which happened again the other day.

[Wapiti]

Some cases where the brass has failed.

One on the left has pierced the edge of the very flattened primer, from a very thick ex-mil case used with quite a hot load which in commercial shells is acceptable, but obviously right on the edge.
Middle one is from a factory cartridge of dubious make, this case a Winchester factory white-box 135gn Sierra HP made in Winchesters military ammo plant. Pulled rounds with powder weights measured show an over-hot load to start with, then too much variation (sh*t QC") in powder charge.
Right case is one of those WMA headstamped Winchester cases that didn't fail initially, on it's first reload. The base gave way just where the case head sticks out of the chamber and sits in the bolt nose counterbore.

3cases.jpg (680.25 KiB) Viewed 154 times

But this is a tiny percent of the failures I always have, that I'm trying to find if someone knows a solution for.

[Wapiti]

This is the issue I am trying to find some advice on, if there is any.
Head separations.
Usually, I never find the base. It ends up far away as the cartridge extracts and ejects, and the body of the case always comes out.
Almost exclusively, this happens in autoloading field firearms.
I can never tell when this is going to happen. I NEVER use a case where you can see the bright ring around the base.

separatedexamples.jpg (678.15 KiB) Viewed 152 times

Any ideas to spot these failures before reloading the case?

[bladeracer]

I don't think I've had any brass fails of a dangerous kind. Case separations are bloody annoying, but not usually dangerous.

I have a big box that I throw my failed brass into for melting later on. I went through the whole box two days ago looking for samples to show a mate some ideas of what to look out for. There are about 350-odd I reckon. My brass by far fails with splits, mainly in the neck, then in the shoulder or wall. I've had a very small number of separations, and I don't recall any with rifle cartridges, despite shooting a lot of .303. I don't load my brass up to factory levels though, I like my brass to last a while, and I don't need 400m potential to kill something 50m away. My brass is a mix of brand new brass, once-fired factory, stuff of unknown age that came with firearms, and range brass picked up during competitions. It's mostly .38 Special by a good margin, I get a few splits every time I shoot .38, then a lot of .44-40. I was surprised to only see two split 9mm, but I lose a percentage of 9mm every time I shoot. This year I actually started logging brass loss and fails after each shoot to get a feel for the numbers. I very often come home with more 9mm, despite losing some, simply because so many people leave their brass on the range, or give me their factory brass. So far this year I've recorded 104 case fails, but I know some of the brass pickers will toss a split case if they find one while collecting my brass, so it may be higher. I have only lost 38 cases, but gained several hundred - some of the lost and found might be splits as well. I also find other brass while collecting my own. I have recorded 160 additional cases brought home from competitions, this doesn't include all the stuff that I get given outside of competition.

Annealing can extend case life if you are losing your brass due to work hardening of the neck. Some of yours appear to be failing during extraction, is it a gas-operated semi-auto rifle? Reducing the pressure to extend brass life should help. The separations you can see have thinned inside (the outside wall is always pushed against the chamber so you won't necessarily see any physical ring, but you should be able to feel it inside with a bent pick. Cleaning to a high polish should also help you see the ring forming inside.

Three separations in three months destroyed my confidence in the rifle for competition, I'm just starting to use it again for the long-range shoots. I could toss more than 1000 pieces of brass and start with new stuff, but I hate waste, and 99.5% of them are probably just fine. And it'll cost me at least $800 for new stuff. And I'll end up including other people's old brass in the mix soon enough anyway. The only viable fix is very thorough inspection before reloading it - every time. Shooting blackpowder makes it very difficult to properly inspect the brass so I started cleaning it last year. With spotless shiny brass it is far easier to see the fine cracks appearing in the neck and wall. It's so much easier that I tumbled a lot of smokeless brass last week as well as the black stuff. But cleaning brass is _a lot_ more work. For several days last week I had the tumbler running continuously. I'd go down every ninety minutes, dump out the clean brass, refill with dirty brass and set it running again. I shake the pins out of each case and throw them into a stainless bowl of water. Dump the pins back into the tumbler, flush the pins clean at least twice, refill with brass, a teaspoon of citric acid and a good squirt of dishwashing liquid, and restart the tumbler. The bowl of brass I fill with water two or three times, agitating the brass to bring all the soapy acid water out, and rinse it until the water is clean and soap-free. Then I dump the wet brass into trays I stack above the wood stove to dry. I just got a larger wet tumbler, and also a vibratory dry tumbler as I have a lot of old ammo I want to clean up.

Trying to track the number of firings is impossible, shooting competitions, often you wind up with somebody else's brass (even different chamberings from your own), or other brass that happens to be left on the range. But visual inspection is easy enough, and pretty effective. I pick up a small handful of brass, say six to twelve depending on size, and roll them from hand to hand listening for the splits. This gets most of them out. Then I inspect them all individually, with a torch, before they go to their bucket for depriming and sizing, or go in the tumbler for the blackpowder stuff. Any that get through this far I usually pick up during sizing. Either there is zero pressure on the press lever, or I hear them ping as the neck gives way on the expander ball. I inspect each one as it comes off the press before tossing it into the next loading bin. I inspect them again as I prime them, again as I charge them, and again after seating the bullets. And then I run them all through the actions to ensure they fit. I'm about to do that this morning with 250rds of .44-40, 250rds of .38 Special and 160rds of 12ga. I made for the NSW state titles next week. I expect I'll find a few tight ones that won't chamber for some reason, or won't extract easily, so they go into the pull-down bucket for disassembly later on.

This year I've fired 10,501rds, and loaded 3618rds with 49,068gn of powder.

Morning all,
I was knocking up a few cartridges to try some different open sight techniques using cases collected from the used stash. The "used stash" are cases shot in the field and are difficult to separate from how many firings each has had, what rifle etc as I tend to use a few different action working types in the same calibre. I use the same calibre in 3 action types because it is the most effective cartridge for the feral animals we have here.
And factory ammo in the same cal, and with so many jobs it usually ends up the cases are all mixed together.

How do you tell when a case is going to fail?
Reloading manuals and "gun writers" in magazines say the same old things:
Count each case firing, (rubbish, some brands last twice as long as others, and some action types destroy cases twice as fast)
Visual inspection - looking for that bright ring or line around where the base of the case internally and the wall section joins due to brittleness in that area
Check internally for case head separation (the method everyone says they use is false information)
Routinely anneal necks (WTF for, my necks NEVER split, ever, before the cases fail elsewhere). And you CANNOT anneal at the base where my cases always fail. So annealing is just useless for my issues.

In my cases, cases fail by separation every time.
Usually, they separate when they are ejected, which happened again the other day.

[Wapiti]

Hey Blade, Thanks for your as always, useful and knowledgeable info and the time you take to write all that.
I wish there was more like you prepared to detail info like that here.

I have tried the pick idea, I enclose a pic.

casetool1.jpg (695.5 KiB) Viewed 122 times

I made it from impossibly hard old extra 2.5mm HT fencing wire.
I've ground the tip with a chisel end so, hopefully, it drops into any internal ring from an about-to-separate case with that myth of the internal ring from brass moving forward.
I have felt some rings in some old brass prior, but this stuff that separates here has no ring inside that I can feel whatsoever, it's just hardened from FLS a few times I suppose.
Yes I am a XXXL size handed ex-boilermaker, but I could still feel this stretch-ring if it was there.
And only a deathwish idiot would attempt to anneal brass at the head. As it is, when people tell me how they anneal necks they are really telling me they are all overdoing it and have no idea anyway at the temp brass changes back to its soft yet still springy stage (spring is essential to hold a projectile properly).
So doing it for my ammo is pointless.

Maybe I'd better buy up all that incredibly cheap PPU cases Cleaver's still selling online, and start again?
The PPU cases are not separating, it's the Federals, Winchesters, American stuff.

I also use a Redding small-base die to FLS too nowadays, because of the ammo being used in bolt, pump and gas operated semi's interchangeably. The reason is that I just can't seem to keep up with all the chores here to have different loads for the working guns all labelled, all different, it's just unnecessary when the loads I have used for years now shoot so well in all the rifles and have such a great result from what we use this ammo for in the field.

I do, and can, keep track of the few cartridges fired in my walkabout prized hunting rifles, because hunting for me is a pleasure and usually only one cartridge is fired and then I have a meat animal to take care of. That's proper hunting.

But all this ammo I am having issues with is cull ammo, for both numbers to be managed and for serious problem animals that just seem to love hanging around here.

[Fester]

I have only had 1 seperation crack, and was proud of it because I must have reloaded over 10,000 by then.
I found 1 other one that looked like the marking before they actually crack, shiny brass, and those magnifying headsets pick up the tiniest cracks.
I often get a couple of little shoulder cracks, then more than a few on the next firing and scrap the batch.
Can be the same, but neck cracks, a couple is OK but watch for more.

They say headspace issues cause head separations, and a semi with a bucket-sized chamber could be the culprit.
Mine are batched in masking tape labeled shotty ammo boxes, got a couple of milk cates full, but not much point batching if used in different rifles.
That "winning in the wind" YouTuber recons the batches must be the same load and fireformed, stuff that is way to impractical to do.
They are F-Class champions, and need all that because they chuck a barrel out if it can only shoot 3/4"

I have boxes marked range brass, if I don't know their history, or picked up and not once fired, I brand matched them as I had a lot for 30-30 cast plinking.
Now I am not guessing for annealing time.

I have batches of both cheap Federal and exy Lap cases that are approaching 20 firings now. I have scrapped 1 off Lap cases with neck or shoulder cracks, but never scrapped a batch, as it's only the odd 1 off.

So many issues can pop up when reloading that make it both interesting and frustrating.
The term springy brass is normally when blokes load a batch and find the projies are lose, or fall out.
It's when I started annealing and taught another bloke when he found that issue.
It fixed it for both of us.
Often I can feel the difference when seating pills in a freshly annealed batch of cases.
They just slide in with very little pressure, but always grip well.
Same dies and setup, but cases that have work hardened can need much more force to start the projy into them.

Just my finding and self tought learnings, like all my shooting stuff, never done courses of any kind, just common sense and safety where guns are used.

[Fester]

I have only had 1 seperation crack, and was proud of it because I must have reloaded over 10,000 by then.
I found 1 other one that looked like the marking before they actually crack, shiny brass, and those magnifying headsets pick up the tiniest cracks.
I often get a couple of little shoulder cracks, then more than a few on the next firing and scrap the batch.
Can be the same, but neck cracks, a couple is OK but watch for more.

They say headspace issues cause head separations, and a semi with a bucket-sized chamber could be the culprit.
Mine are batched in masking tape labeled shotty ammo boxes, got a couple of milk cates full, but not much point batching if used in different rifles.
That "winning in the wind" YouTuber recons the batches must be the same load and fireformed, stuff that is way to impractical to do.
They are F-Class champions, and need all that because they chuck a barrel out if it can only shoot 3/4"

I have boxes marked range brass, if I don't know their history, or picked up and not once fired, I brand matched them as I had a lot for 30-30 cast plinking.
Now I am not guessing for annealing time.

I have batches of both cheap Federal and exy Lap cases that are approaching 20 firings now. I have scrapped 1 off Lap cases with neck or shoulder cracks, but never scrapped a batch, as it's only the odd 1 off.

So many issues can pop up when reloading that make it both interesting and frustrating.
The term springy brass is normally when blokes load a batch and find the projies are lose, or fall out.
It's when I started annealing and taught another bloke when he found that issue.
It fixed it for both of us.
Often I can feel the difference when seating pills in a freshly annealed batch of cases.
They just slide in with very little pressure, but always grip well.
Same dies and setup, but cases that have work hardened can need much more force to start the projy into them.

Just my finding and self tought learnings, like all my shooting stuff, never done courses of any kind, just common sense and safety where guns are used.

[Fester]

I just went back to check the photos properly, wondering if they are .308 and 1 sure does have a FLATTENED primer.
They do show why blokes use the scraping pin type of testing, which should work well the way they taper down before cracking apart.

I could never get my pins tumbler to clean the pockets like new, without tumbeling for hours on end, so I tried an ultra-sonic cleaner first.
With a good Citric acid dose, they came out with clean pockets, and a side benefit was that inside the cases were also 80 to 100% clean.
If you do it for shiny brass, it is next level. My hatred for scraping primer pockets is my only reason.
The visual inspection with the little torch on my magnafying head set would see any separation starting to happen.
Not found one yet, I am sort of waiting to see one for the satisfaction feeling, but as I said, It is a rare thing for me.
They are just bolt actions, and only 1 rifle in each cartridge, so less chance of me seeing this stuff..

I thought full case head separations could be dangerous, but a crack alone would be just a blow-back type of thing.
Not sure though, a pierced primer can give a bit of a cheek burn.

[morerams]

Visual inspection of the outside of the case, there can be a groove on the inside long before case failure and I have found it hard to detect with a pointy tool even when I could see it.

[Wapiti]

Yeah I can't feel a crack, a groove forming or anything with a few styles of pick I've made.
Sounds like a great trick when I read it when Uncle Nick talks about it, but never has it worked for me.
I've laughed when I've checked this in a batch of old cases collected from the passenger floor of the buggy and then fire them out in the paddock after recharging them again and see out the corner of my eye two pieces flying in different directions.

Oh well, no solution but I must just be hard on brass just as I am so good at finding the failure point of anything else out here pretty quickly.

[Wapiti]

They say headspace issues cause head separations, and a semi with a bucket-sized chamber could be the culprit.

Ha Ha That might've been the case when the country was flooded with hideous cheap SKS's and SKK's and those Ljungmans 6.6 crap-boxes where you had to oil the old ammo so it wouldn't stick in the chambers, but not in the stuff available here now.
For example one we have has a match chamber which is very tight, and is meant for competition and easily cuts cloverleafs. Makes a mockery of the stories that bolt actions are more accurate, only those without them say that, but what's new there.
This is because the market here is small, and people don't want to buy inaccurate, sloppy cheap crap. It's for saving stock from predators that don't sit still hence saving you a fortune on lost income, certainly no more of the spray and pray of pre-96 of someone with an SKK and chink corrosive ammo.

Sure you can get Remington SR25's, and cheap AR's, but from talking to people who've bought the mass-produced stuff, you get what you pay for.
Spend a year getting a Cat D licence and then 5 months chasing the AG's department, and you want something decent.

[Fester]

Do you have a 1022, how do they shoot, compared to say a CZ bolt gun?

My CZ 515 can shoot a decent group, but not like the 452 . It is a 22mag, so maybe more an ammo thing.
It is not too sloppy. It actually heats up like a centerfire but I won't test how hot till just before I hand it in.

Something I also noticed with your case separations is the cracks are closer to the base.
Mine were a bit higher by the looks. NFI why, but a pattern may mean something.

[wanneroo]

I throw out any brass that has any sign at all or doesn't look right.

2nd thing is the paperclip test. I find an unfolded paperclip has the perfect tension. Insert and drag one end of it along the wall of the case. If you feel a depression or especially hear/feel a click then you are probably getting ready to have a case separation.