Are TSE barrels any good?

[Duramax]

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Top photo is from a US manufactured barrel about to be fitted tomorrow. Bottom photo is a TSE barrel I refused to fit. Just not worth the trouble and it seems the same philosophy from the Graham Bugden era of MAB has carried on to the current owner. Graham told me years ago that the "chatter" was an accuracy advancement that was used to good effect by some South African mob. Well that and the continued use of 416 that was way too soft for chambers with thin tenon walls was the end for me. Graham did some very good rimfire barrels for me back in the day but only after insistence they be lapped to remove the corrugated road effect.
Why people are not using Alan Swan's barrels is beyond me. Very well priced, good lead time and the young lad has really put the effort into getting good steel and the latest technology. Neville still makes a great barrel but his manner at times and lead times has put a lot of people off. Many may not know that Neville's barrels have been fitted to some top name rifles in the US which has meant for a long time we here are fed what we can get if we can get it. Shame really as I consider his barrels equal to any US manufacturer barring Krieger.. They are without doubt the best barrel statistically I have used. Never had an ordinary one which says a lot about cut barrels versus pull or push button rifling.

[bigrich]

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Top photo is from a US manufactured barrel about to be fitted tomorrow. Bottom photo is a TSE barrel I refused to fit. Just not worth the trouble and it seems the same philosophy from the Graham Bugden era of MAB has carried on to the current owner. Graham told me years ago that the "chatter" was an accuracy advancement that was used to good effect by some South African mob. Well that and the continued use of 416 that was way too soft for chambers with thin tenon walls was the end for me. Graham did some very good rimfire barrels for me back in the day but only after insistence they be lapped to remove the corrugated road effect.
Why people are not using Alan Swan's barrels is beyond me. Very well priced, good lead time and the young lad has really put the effort into getting good steel and the latest technology. Neville still makes a great barrel but his manner at times and lead times has put a lot of people off. Many may not know that Neville's barrels have been fitted to some top name rifles in the US which has meant for a long time we here are fed what we can get if we can get it. Shame really as I consider his barrels equal to any US manufacturer barring Krieger.. They are without doubt the best barrel statistically I have used. Never had an ordinary one which says a lot about cut barrels versus pull or push button rifling.

sorry mate , you lost me . which barrel brand is neville associated with ? so that tse barrel is recently made ? as for swans , i stopped using them years ago after some p!ss poor workmanship on a 358win i had built , oversized chamber with chattering and a no-go gauge closed easily in the action , among other issues . once the workmanship issues were fixed , it was a extremely accurate , well made barrel . years later i decided to get my new smith to purchase a barrel from swanns to be fitted by him . it was a freakin copper mine , i've never come across anything like it . hand lapped my @ss ! i could say more about other customers disappointments , mainly to do with chamber and head space issues , but i've said enough already . thanks for your response , cheers

[Duramax]

Neville Madden of MADDCO. Agree that a few years ago Swan barrels were somewhat a lucky dip. His son does the barrels now, new gear, steel and process. Different outcome.
Was it a chromemoly or stainless barrel in the 358?

[Wapiti]

Just seems to me to show you can be lucky and you sometimes aren't... but inconsistency is not good.
I've only ever seen two barrels around here from a certain Ipswich maker, and the workmanship issues I've been able to see immediately when they are clocked does not give me any desire to ever have them fit something for me.
The rifles did not perform and I can only assume it was for the usual reasons that could have been easily avoided if a proper basic set-up job was done after the blank was made.
Speaking against the popular tide on forums can get you criticised but you can't help what your experiences are. But everyone makes a lemon, even the best of them.

[bigrich]

Neville Madden of MADDCO. Agree that a few years ago Swan barrels were somewhat a lucky dip. His son does the barrels now, new gear, steel and process. Different outcome.
Was it a chromemoly or stainless barrel in the 358?

Chromemoly for the 358 and the later 30 cal copper mine barrel . I respect your opinion, but I won’t touch Swann stuff with a barge pole after my personal experience with them. Ahh, Neville madden of madco was who you referred to. I have one of his barrels on my 222 rem 700, top notch accurate barrel. After a bit of research, im going to give a true flite barrel from NZ a go on a Mauser 98 in 30-06. Your opinion on TSE is disappointing, but thanks for the heads up .

[straightshooter]

How often has one tried a blemished fruit and found that it tasted fantastic or tried a perfect looking supermarket fruit and regretted it.
Same with barrels.
It's the first 3 inches and the last 6 inches that really count. The part in between can have slight dimensional deviations and cosmetic blemishes, within reason, and not be a problem.

[Wapiti]

Over the last few years I'd bought two Brno Model 2's.
I kept hearing how accurate they were. Don't doubt some are.
Both were beautiful looked after examples, but they would not shoot with any kind of hollow point ammo. After a tip from John Robinson in an article in the now defunct Guns Australia magazine, I slugged them. The last few inches of the barrel on both, the projectile just almost fell out. One had both tight and loose spots right through.
In his article he said that this was quite common, and yeah the guns had a great action, but needed an aftermarket barrel to really come up to scratch.
I just got rid of them, and finally found an as-new CZ 452 which doesn't do that. It can shoot really well with some brands of hunting ammo.
There's more to consistency than just a good barrel but without one, there's no point.

[Bills Shed]

I am getting a 17 cal barrel fitted by TSE ATM.
First one was a 17 as well, 17 Hornet. This is chambered as a 17Mink. I will let you know how it goes.
Not many if any make 17cal SS barrels.


Bill

[CJRBOLTGUN1]

after reading the entire thread I'm none the wiser ,i know of a few names, I was considering having some barrel work done but all this secret squirrel s**t doesn't help someone filter out the dodgy pricks and like most i cant afford to go through the headache of being done over,who are you guys refering too

[bigrich]

after reading the entire thread I'm none the wiser ,i know of a few names, I was considering having some barrel work done but all this secret squirrel s**t doesn't help someone filter out the dodgy pricks and like most i cant afford to go through the headache of being done over,who are you guys refering too

well mate , it can be a lucky dip , with regards to barrel quality even from a well regarded maker , and gunsmiths are human , they can make errors at times . i've seen the oz brownells website lists that USA made shilen barrels are available for order if you can find a smith your happy with to do the fitting . shilen have a very good rep as a barrel maker . cleaver sell IBI barrels which if they have in stock what you want, could save you time . tom smith at tbone shipwrighting in sydney is someone i can recommend for the quality of Lothar walther barrels and his work . but he's not cheap . i've had 2 guns done by him and used a 303h LW barrel on a 303 martini done by jim kent in towoomba . all were good shooters . with regards to gun smiths there's a top notch guy (by reputation) up the sunshine coast ,qld, rob bloomfeild . i haven't used him , just heard good things .

i've recently bought a IBI barrel from a guy in tassie for a 338-06 build on a musgrave 98 . he told me a interesting story of a barrel maker and smith just west of brisbane who he didn't have kind words for . he sent a rifle to them to be rebarreled to 280AI . when he got the gun back, when he first fired it, it resulted in serious pressure, he had to open the bolt with a hammer . apparently it'd been rechambered in the wrong caliber , another variation of the 280rem . he rang the smith up and they said they didn't have a 280AI reamer so the used the one they had for the different 280 variation . it was clear on his order he wanted 280AI. they didn't offer to fix it either apparently . i've had problems with this particular smith/barrel maker in the past a few times . to be fair i gave them a few chances , and won't touch a second hand rifle they've worked on or their barrels now. i've heard way too many stories first hand from other unsatisfied customers of this smith . i hope some of what i've posted proves useful to you . cheers

[Wapiti]

Yes but Rich the bloke is basically saying that the secret squirrel stuff of not naming names means how does he know who NOT to use, or to get more info on?

[bigrich]

Yes but Rich the bloke is basically saying that the secret squirrel stuff of not naming names means how does he know who NOT to use, or to get more info on?

a little bit of research will reveal the smith i had bad work from . i don't want to name names on here as i'm local , and i think it's forum policy not to bad mouth businesses on here . i've named smiths i've had good work from , or heard good things about . that should point him in the right direction . the only other barrel maker smith i know of west of brissy is madco . i have one of his barrels on my 222 rem . great barrel , was fitted by jim kent

[Maxjon]

I've tried a few others, but have no experience with TSE. Can anyone here give a report?

Yes they are excellent! I had a 223 Omark TSE barrel it was the most accurate rifle ive ever owned! I will be buying again!

[bigrich]

I've tried a few others, but have no experience with TSE. Can anyone here give a report?

Yes they are excellent! I had a 223 Omark TSE barrel it was the most accurate rifle ive ever owned! I will be buying again!

was this a recent purchase ? also , you learn something new everyday, i thought all omarks were 308win . was this a custom build ? cheers

[morerams]

MAB made a few in 223, but sold heaps of kits to convert Omarks to 223.

[Maxjon]

A word of warning,
The son of a mate down the road on a cropping joint bought a Tikka M55 222 that was in good nick except for a worn out barrel, he had it rebarrelled down at a place between Bris and Warwick.
They offered him a second-hand super heavy stainless 22-250 barrel cheap, just pay for cutting off the old chamber, rethread/chamber and fit to 223, so he accepted.
He just got it back and outwardly it looked OK.
His dad asked me to come down because he wanted some advice on setting it up in a small lathe he'd bought, and when helping out I found that one, he didn't have all the gear he needed to set it up and two, when I brought some stuff down to show him how to clock the barrel straight on the bore at one end and the chamber at the other (has to be on the bore centreline, including the action centreline, not the external) , the action was running out by 15 thou at the end. That was cut that way by the supposed gunsmith.
The barrel also had a big flat milled in it at the chamber end, this was at the 4.30 o'clock position on the knox, hidden by the stock.
I can only assume it was put there to allow a big objective scope bell to clear this massive barrel, as it's virtually straight from the action. There's no way it was put there to tighten the barrel in, that would indicate a smith without the correct gear. He wanted to bed it and asked whether it might cause an issue in trapping the barrel into the compound.

Disclaimer - I'm not working on any other persons guns or modifying them whatsoever, that's not legal here unless one is licensed as an "armourer" in Qld and I'm not, nor would I want to. He's in NSW anyway. I was merely showing him basic lathe setting up principles and how not to bodgy stuff up. He did this to have a look for why things weren't going so well, and in doing so he found out that not all "gunsmiths" that charge for their work bother to do a straight job.
Maybe it was a Friday arvo job, or one "training the apprentice"?

yeah there's some dodgy smiths out there , no doubt about it . i stick with my old mate up in toowoomba . if the smith who did the job on the 223 is who i think your referring to , i'd get the chamber looked at and the headspace checked as this was a frequent problem with that smiths work . tikka m55's are a nice bit of gear too, only issue with them is getting replacement extractors if their worn out, or magazines

I'm not sure if there is dodgy Gunsmiths about because in reality, who really is a gunsmith?? I doubt there is an apprenticeship available in this country. I think you'll find most "gunsmiths" are actually qualified tool makers, or trade qualified fitter and turners, that have spent a majority of their careers machining. There is some very talented tool makers, and fitters out there that very capable, but do they call themselves "gunsmiths" ??
It makes me laugh when people refer to them as "Smiths" makes me think of smiths crisps.

[bigrich]

A word of warning,
The son of a mate down the road on a cropping joint bought a Tikka M55 222 that was in good nick except for a worn out barrel, he had it rebarrelled down at a place between Bris and Warwick.
They offered him a second-hand super heavy stainless 22-250 barrel cheap, just pay for cutting off the old chamber, rethread/chamber and fit to 223, so he accepted.
He just got it back and outwardly it looked OK.
His dad asked me to come down because he wanted some advice on setting it up in a small lathe he'd bought, and when helping out I found that one, he didn't have all the gear he needed to set it up and two, when I brought some stuff down to show him how to clock the barrel straight on the bore at one end and the chamber at the other (has to be on the bore centreline, including the action centreline, not the external) , the action was running out by 15 thou at the end. That was cut that way by the supposed gunsmith.
The barrel also had a big flat milled in it at the chamber end, this was at the 4.30 o'clock position on the knox, hidden by the stock.
I can only assume it was put there to allow a big objective scope bell to clear this massive barrel, as it's virtually straight from the action. There's no way it was put there to tighten the barrel in, that would indicate a smith without the correct gear. He wanted to bed it and asked whether it might cause an issue in trapping the barrel into the compound.

Disclaimer - I'm not working on any other persons guns or modifying them whatsoever, that's not legal here unless one is licensed as an "armourer" in Qld and I'm not, nor would I want to. He's in NSW anyway. I was merely showing him basic lathe setting up principles and how not to bodgy stuff up. He did this to have a look for why things weren't going so well, and in doing so he found out that not all "gunsmiths" that charge for their work bother to do a straight job.
Maybe it was a Friday arvo job, or one "training the apprentice"?

yeah there's some dodgy smiths out there , no doubt about it . i stick with my old mate up in toowoomba . if the smith who did the job on the 223 is who i think your referring to , i'd get the chamber looked at and the headspace checked as this was a frequent problem with that smiths work . tikka m55's are a nice bit of gear too, only issue with them is getting replacement extractors if their worn out, or magazines

I'm not sure if there is dodgy Gunsmiths about because in reality, who really is a gunsmith?? I doubt there is an apprenticeship available in this country. I think you'll find most "gunsmiths" are actually qualified tool makers, or trade qualified fitter and turners, that have spent a majority of their careers machining. There is some very talented tool makers, and fitters out there that very capable, but do they call themselves "gunsmiths" ??
It makes me laugh when people refer to them as "Smiths" makes me think of smiths crisps.

your right about australian "smiths", most are fitter and turner/tool maker background , the smith i had poor work from is actually a boiler maker by trade . my old mate jim kent i use is a ex yank who came out here in the early 80's and worked for shoesmith firearms in toowoomba qld for a few years before he started his own shop in his backyard shed . he's originally from tennesee usa , and did a proper apprenticeship in boulder colorado if i remember correctly . being a gunsmith is a proper trade in the USA . he knows a lot of old school tricks and modifications and really knows winchester lever guns . he's moving down to texas soon , south of stanthorpe , not texas USA . i've got to get my next two projects done before he moves as 4 hours is a bit far to go for gunsmithing . so i've got to find a new smith local to me either that or keep shipping my jobs down to tom smith as i can't fault his work . but he's not cheap . dunno if he'll fit other barrel brands besides the lothar walther barrels he imports . i'll have to enquire about that .