Cheap economical 4x4's

[bladeracer]

My grandson is getting his learners permit this week. He's much more interested in bikes than cars, but Vic won't let him ride bikes for another two years so we need a car for him. He's at TAFE doing construction so I'm leaning toward more of a work vehicle than a sedan, and as we're in the bush, 4x4 would be very handy.

I'm thinking of the Sierra, Jimny, Rav4, Vitara and other such vehicles. Needs to be cheap, manual, reliable but easy to work on (he's enjoying swinging spanners as well), and economical on fuel (petrol, not diesel). I'm a big fan of the G13B engine so would be especially happy with any of the G-series engines.

I'm familiar with the Suzukis but which other vehicles should I be looking at?

[9.3x64]

If I was in that situation I would buy a Jimny or Sierra.
Keep it simple.

[bladeracer]

If I was in that situation I would buy a Jimny or Sierra.
Keep it simple.

Yep, that's certainly where I'm leaning, but I don't want to miss out on something that might be better simply because I'm unaware of it

A local bloke here tears around the bush tracks in a Vitara, he's gets in and out of places I wouldn't dare take the Landcruiser, but I have heard that it's not exactly a stock standard vehicle.

[GQshayne]

I think the Vitara is where I would start looking. A step up from the old Sierra, and not Jimny money for the same driveline pretty much.

[Jorlcrin]

We had one of the early SJ410(1 litre) Sierras with the standard(narrow) rims from new(1981), which survived far longer than I'd have believed.
Cannot believe the trips I took that thing in our heavy-clay Blacksoil mud, and it shrugged it off.
For serious mud, those little things can go places you would NEVER consider taking a Landcruiser, due to how light they were.
Mate had one of the later SJ413 (1.3Litre) with wider mags on it, and it had just a bit more grunt, and could go practically anywhere.
They ARE lightly built(especially the cabin), so frequent rough road vibration will make a lot of bits fall apart.
[Cable-clutch (on SJ410), and IF you have someone stupid enough(drunk overseer) to break engine mounts by racing across rough ground, depressing the clutch will drag fan(and engine!) into the radiator.]
The wheel-track on the early Sierras, is narrower than most later 4WD's, so made it lots more wobbly on rough roads, or badly maintained bitumen.
I have a feeling the later 1.3L is a bit wider track, and a bit closer to the more common wheel-track of todays cars.

But the engine and drive-train in ours endured about 15 hard years in Outback QLD, and then retired to my uncles place in the Callide valley for another 10+ hard years on his farm, before finally retiring.
Despite the light build of the body, our SJ410 Sierra endured a LOT of rough treatment, and was simple enough to repair the mechanicals.

The Jimny is supposed to be the evolution of the Sierra, with coil suspension(and a 1.6L motor?), which would make the ride a lot smoother.
Later ones even have flash stuff like power steering and aircon!
I've had a shooting mate visit in the latest model Jimny, and I wish I could justify the price to have one here as a runabout shooting rig.
Wider wheel-track again than any of the Sierras, and now they run about the same as most larger 4WD wheeltracks.

I harp on about wheel-track width, as it makes a huge difference on rough roads, to be following the same width track as other vehicles.

We also had one of the early 3-door (1.3L??) JLX Vitara's, which had part-time 4wd, and a massive rear swing-out door, which gave a surprisingly large cargo area.
Not as good clearance as the Sierras, but didnt perform too badly, and did a lot of work beetling around the property.
VERY easy to step into the seat; no sills on the doors, and the doors were large enough to give really good access.
Mum rolled this little rig in 2001 on her way into town, due to the same problem as the early Sierra; the wheel-track was too narrow, and the corrugations in the badly deteriorated (dirt) main road, caused her to lose control and be flipped sideways.
Later Vitaras had a larger(1.6L?) motor, and they also widened the wheel-track, which made them better on rough roads.
We replaced Mums Vitara with a new 2001 Toyota RAV4, which had the AWD, and a 2L VVT-i engine.
Annoyingly, her's was the first model that didnt have part-time 4WD, but aside from that, the car is still her drive some 25 years later, and still does the job.

Two things I dont like about the RAV4:- battery location (up near the windscreen in separate compartment), and the engine is really set up for the auto, but we went with the manual, which requires a bit of work to get to perform.
RAV wouldnt handle a lot of mud, but the few times we had to drive home in light rain, it handled well.

Another rig is a Daihastsu Scat, but I'm not sure if they were ever supplied in petrol, so mightnt work for you.
Daihatsu Feroza is around Sierra size, and might be an alternative for you; mate had one beetling around Brisbane for years, and I was amazed at what it put up with.
NOTE: the 1988 Daihatsu Rocky we had here was an abortion; crap electrics, crap 2.8L engine and drive-train, and some seriously questionable design issues in the cabin.
I mention the Rocky, because I'm pretty sure they had the option of a petrol motor, but I never saw one. The engine and drivetrain caused my father no end of head-shaking; he'd bought the Rocky because of how durable the Scat's were, and regretted it from day 1.


Depending on how much your grandson is keen on mechanicing, my order of preference:-

1). 1.6L or later Vitara, though not the V6 model.
2). Early model Jimny, though check the wheel-track.
3). Daihatsu Feroza
4). 1.3L Sierra
5). Early (Pre-2000) model RAV 4, with the part-time 4wd.

Good luck; expect your Grandson will have a lot of fun with the idea.

[yoshie]

I had a 92 Sierra. I was just getting into hunting. It was great off road and great on fuel. I would go hunting in the state forests with a others in hiluxes and patrols and they'd be in 4 wheel and I'd only occasionally have to lock the hubs.

[tuknal]

id be heading towards a vitara or rav over any jimny or Sierra they are buckets of puss even tho a vitara or rav are no power house either ,,but these are hardly anything i categorise as a work vehicle ,
if a 4wd isnt really needed and hes doing constuction why not a petrol toyota or the like ute ,decent set of tyres and theyll still go places carry tools and go camping and load his dirt bike (if hes got one or wants to) in it too ,,not to mention make him look like a more work focused young feela to any employers..
apart from ground clearance (which can be sorted with suspension components ie extended shackles etc) theyll go most places ,,how often do we REALLY use the 4wd

[bladeracer]

id be heading towards a vitara or rav over any jimny or Sierra they are buckets of puss even tho a vitara or rav are no power house either ,,but these are hardly anything i categorise as a work vehicle ,
if a 4wd isnt really needed and hes doing constuction why not a petrol toyota or the like ute ,decent set of tyres and theyll still go places carry tools and go camping and load his dirt bike (if hes got one or wants to) in it too ,,not to mention make him look like a more work focused young fella to any employers..
apart from ground clearance (which can be sorted with suspension components ie extended shackles etc) theyll go most places ,,how often do we REALLY use the 4wd

We're not looking at a tradesman's work vehicle, just a more useful vehicle that a sedan. As far as I can work out he won't actually get P plates for two more years so his road driving is going to be limited to when I'm able to accompany him. 4x4 would be more useful for getting around our properties and the bush, where he will be able to get around by himself, but it's not essential, he can use the Landcruiser for that.

Power is not an issue either since he's not allowed to drive anything over 175hp per ton for about five years. Our cars are about half that, the Landcruiser is even lower, only about 70hp per ton.

As for 4x4, we pretty much use it every time we use the Landcruiser, it's our farm vehicle. When we go to pick up or drop off hay or cattle, 4x4 generally gets used at each end, especially during winter. In winter we can't get up to the sheds above the house without using 4x4, between the mud and wet grass two-wheel-drive just won't cut it.

The early Vitara and Rav4 are probably priced at the top end of what he'll be able to afford I think.

[Peter988]

Throw Subaru Forrester into the mix. Watch some reviews on their X-Mode. You will be surprised where they go. Plus they have better clearance than some.

[tuknal]

look are for and old mahindra hahaha yeah i know
apart from parts being hard to get theyre not bad but just prepare for it to stay with you cos resale is s**t ,,eaton diff lock standard ,borg warner transfer ,bosch electrics and yeah ive owned 1 and went everywhere i wanted to go that i do in a cruiser sometimes better even with a tonne on the back

[bladeracer]

Throw Subaru Forrester into the mix. Watch some reviews on their X-Mode. You will be surprised where they go. Plus they have better clearance than some.

Good point, I've got two mates that had Forresters. We had a Leone for about a year, which wasn't too bad, except for the awful fuel economy.

[bladeracer]

look are for and old mahindra hahaha yeah i know
apart from parts being hard to get theyre not bad but just prepare for it to stay with you cos resale is s**t ,,eaton diff lock standard ,borg warner transfer ,bosch electrics and yeah ive owned 1 and went everywhere i wanted to go that i do in a cruiser sometimes better even with a tonne on the back

Interesting, not sure I've even seen one.

[Peter988]

Throw Subaru Forrester into the mix. Watch some reviews on their X-Mode. You will be surprised where they go. Plus they have better clearance than some.

Good point, I've got two mates that had Forresters. We had a Leone for about a year, which wasn't too bad, except for the awful fuel economy.

I am on my 3rd Forrester. I had a Prado before that. The Forresters have taken me everywhere the Prado did, including sandy tracks, creek crossings, loose rocky slopes etc. And I get 7L per 110k.

[Damo300]

Was gonna say the Subaru Forrester.
Even the brumby ute was a goer.
My mate still has one.
They are as unbreakable as the hilux imo. Better gearbox though.

[Fester]

My wifes Forester XT has never missed a beat, and OK, for a soft all-wheeler.

Better ground clearance than some, but nothing like a 4x4.
You would need AT tyres to get a soft-roader to go far off-road IMO.

I have never found those big 4cly motors to be economical; ours has a turbo and needs decent fuel to run it.
Great cars, particularly that model in a compact size, which could help with clearance limitations.

[Peter988]

My wifes Forester XT has never missed a beat, and OK, for a soft all-wheeler.

Better ground clearance than some, but nothing like a 4x4.
You would need AT tyres to get a soft-roader to go far off-road IMO.

I have never found those big 4cly motors to be economical; ours has a turbo and needs decent fuel to run it.
Great cars, particularly that model in a compact size, which could help with clearance limitations.

I would be interested to know where you have taken it to try X-Mode ?

[Fester]

No real X-mode or anything in that model, just constant all-wheel drive, as far as I know.
I went down a bush track in the mountains when it was near new, but the ruts started getting deeper, as they do.
Wife and 3 young kids, and decided to get out with a 10-point turn.
It grounded out because of the ruts, but got us out.

I test drove a non-turbo model of the same car but didn't think much of its road handling.
They firmed up the suspension on the XT, but not sure if it is lower; I don't think so.

Most places I go, when you turn off the main tracks, it gets rough before you know it.
That's why I say some ground clearance and A/T tyres would help you get through.

Older X-Trails look OK, but I don't know much about them.

I was told the Subi club blokes do stuff like jumping in the sand dunes and do well, but NFI what they do to them.

[Wapiti]

I've been looking for a "relatively cheap" older Landcruiser ute, preferably with the 1HZ engine, to use running around doing all the jobs here, permanently set up with 10kva generator, petrol compressor, mig welder and all the tools and grinders etc to do all the steelwork, end assemblies etc around the rougher parts of this place.
Having used many of the "soft" 4wd's, I just want a tougher truck.
A Nissan "coil cab" ute would be great too, the crap about rear coils is just that for a machine that needs real crawling ability.
It's easy to get longer travel suspension and fit it to do the crawling around I need.
The best would be the LC utes with the longer eye-centre rear leafs that came out with the 1HD-FTE models, the long soft leaf upgrades are amazing at keeping wheels on the ground in nasty crawling work.
But alas, they are hugely expensive.
I have a 1HD-FTE "RV" ute sitting here that's my HR ute... but it's as new and I don't want to wreck it. Lost count of the times I've been offered cash over $50k by strangers when driving it to town to keep the cobwebs out of it sitting in the shed.
Crazy market, one cannot understand it.

[Peter988]

No real X-mode or anything in that model, just constant all-wheel drive, as far as I know.
I went down a bush track in the mountains when it was near new, but the ruts started getting deeper, as they do.
Wife and 3 young kids, and decided to get out with a 10-point turn.
It grounded out because of the ruts, but got us out.

I test drove a non-turbo model of the same car but didn't think much of its road handling.
They firmed up the suspension on the XT, but not sure if it is lower; I don't think so.

Most places I go, when you turn off the main tracks, it gets rough before you know it.
That's why I say some ground clearance and A/T tyres would help you get through.

Older X-Trails look OK, but I don't know much about them.

I was told the Subi club blokes do stuff like jumping in the sand dunes and do well, but NFI what they do to them.

Yep you are right - it’s not suitable for serious 4x4. In my case, the properties I shoot are not bad fire track scenarios. I stick with road tyres and that’s been ok - but I take your point about A/T. These days most of my driving is on the black top. I did lots of desert stuff in the Prado. Simpson Desert, Birdsville, Oodnadatta, Strezlecki tracks etc. I wouldn’t hesitate to do those tracks in the Forrester but with A/Ts fitted. Wouldn’t do the Simpson or the Cape.
Interestingly, the Forrester has a touch more ground clearance than the Prado. And I do reckon it’s worthwhile for anyone to watch YouTube videos of X-Mode comparisons versus other soft readers. It blows me away what they can do.

[fussy]

What Jorlcrin said.

SJ410 1983 model, did 180,000Km before we had to swap a short engine into it.
Lots of stop-start running around town, towing boats up slipways, 3 kids learnt to drive in it.
After new engine, good as new.
18PSI tyres (light truck tyre), never bogged it, but watch the wheel track width vs existing bush tracks or you'll stake your side walls.
Not a heavy build, to slow down on rough roads (100km/H was a challenge on the highway, with a 1L engine...actually 0.96 litres).
Only sold it to get a bigger car for more highway driving, and the old bloke who bought it lived on the back of a property 100Km out of the nearest small town, so you can guess what kind of driving he did; bush tracks.

Biggest reason not to buy these nowadays, is the secret's out and they modernised them to be a city soft-raoder with the increased price tag.

[bladeracer]

I've been looking for a "relatively cheap" older Landcruiser ute, preferably with the 1HZ engine, to use running around doing all the jobs here, permanently set up with 10kva generator, petrol compressor, mig welder and all the tools and grinders etc to do all the steelwork, end assemblies etc around the rougher parts of this place.
Having used many of the "soft" 4wd's, I just want a tougher truck.
A Nissan "coil cab" ute would be great too, the crap about rear coils is just that for a machine that needs real crawling ability.
It's easy to get longer travel suspension and fit it to do the crawling around I need.
The best would be the LC utes with the longer eye-centre rear leafs that came out with the 1HD-FTE models, the long soft leaf upgrades are amazing at keeping wheels on the ground in nasty crawling work.
But alas, they are hugely expensive.
I have a 1HD-FTE "RV" ute sitting here that's my HR ute... but it's as new and I don't want to wreck it. Lost count of the times I've been offered cash over $50k by strangers when driving it to town to keep the cobwebs out of it sitting in the shed.
Crazy market, one cannot understand it.

Ours is a '94 1HZ. I consider it to be a truck, there is nothing comfortable about using it, but it's tough and it does the jobs we need it to do without complaining.
We got it bogged once, on level ground too. Down the bottom of the hill there is a flat "bowl" area that looks hard, but after heavy rain it is a swamp due to the water running down the hill to the dam. Rose drove in there once and sunk it to both diffs. I had to take the tractor down to pull it out. When it's dry we can drive through there fine. We learned that lesson a few months after putting cattle into that block, all terrain has its secrets you have to learn

During covid, dealers were calling owners and offering stupid money for their '90's Landcruisers. Not sure if that's still happening.