Need help / night scope

[flashman]

Hi , need a night scope , thermal I think ,but witch brand , magnification . ect .internet has made me more confused............
Oh its going on a Tikka T3 in 223rem , use dogs .fox / dogs range just inside120nmtrs..... thanks

[niteowl]

Hey mate, Thermal is the ONLY way to go. There are lots of people on this forum that will insist that you only need a cheapy. It is up to you on this one. The general "internet", as you have found, is not the place for real advice. My comments are generally not commonly agreed with here. Just be aware that once you have spent your money it is gone, so when you realize you need better it is too late. You start again and end up paying a lot more.
Yes I am of the opinion that a thermal scope is a tool and I am of the belief that ONY the best tools are worth using. Unfortunately it IS expensive.
There is a lot to learn re the questions you have asked!

[Die Judicii]

Niteowl speaks the truth,,,, in all facets.

[deye243]

Well i have to disagree that it's the only way to go JMHO

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These are 2 pics off my night vision scopes and they work just as good way out past anybody should be shooting at night and decent thermal will be 4x the cost .
I have a couple of mates with thermals and yes they are the good ones I would never waste my money on one just my personal opinion resolution just doesn't do it for me.
Here's a pic of a kangaroo at 575 yards during the day.

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[Damo300]

You get what you pay for.

For me personally.
I prefer a clip on for multiple reasons that suit my needs.
Nocpix and Pulsar are the brands I pick.
Consider foggy conditions etc.
Cheap ones do not work at all in fog or rain, and hot days are definitely out.

Does night vision interest you?
Close ranges like that are no sweat for night vision. Far better value for money if you don't want to part with $5k.

[Wapiti]

I can't remember anywhere here where people are saying cheap is the only way to go.

Most of the discussion has been price, and a lot has been about what a few years ago was state-of-the-art, is now bottom tier or close to it, and when those first came everyone who bought one was praising them to the moon.
Now suddenly that that quality is the cheapest available, it's now off the shopping list.
OP says he's shooting within 120m, so the cheaper ones are going to do the job absolutely fine. Unfortunately they won't allow you to lube up and have a stroke over how you've spent the cost of a quad bike on one, but FFS be real.

I agree with Damo as well, a clip-on does it for me.
No zeroing whatsoever, small and light.

The OP also has to consider what he's using for doing the spotting as well, either a thermal monocular or binos, they are the things that will find and identify what you are looking at.
Sitting around looking through a rifle all night, holding the whole shebang up will make you hate the damn activity.
The only time just a rifle thermal would be ok for spotting for hours if you are sitting looking at a particular spot, which in most cases isn't.

My experience, being a bloke that has to find and have a go at taking out animals causing losses and grief, not for a weekend fun trip is that having something that spots heat at 1500m, and can separate a calf from a boar at 1200 is just a wank, because the simple fact is that you then have to get there at night without making it bolt. Which you won't.
Most of the people recommending this stuff wouldn't have a hope of doing that anyway.
It's easy when the glossy brochures say so though.

Me, I'm not going to buy another thermal until I have a head mounted set so I can sneak around with both hands to do something else, like hold a rifle. A set that flips up instantly, so I can use the firearm.

So my only comment on this thread will be to buy something made in EU or anywhere that isn't China.
A brand that has European made gear, like Nitehog or Pulsar.

This would be my absolute upper limit while I still have any sanity, but only if you are going to use it all the time. Not some casual every-now-and-then weekend trip.
It also helps if you are a pro (farmer or primary producer), and this is a tax deduction.
https://goingdark.com.au/products/pulsa ... 438e&_ss=r

[Duramax]

Best value for money has to be the Nocpix bolt 35. Seen them listed just this week on special at $2900 down from $3600. There is footage online of two good hogs taken up the Cape posted by Jazz Hardie from a mate on a hunt two weeks ago from his Bolt 35 he got after advise I had given him not to spend 10k on marketing hype. I have the Ace and Rico 2, Pulsar etc. Yes all expensive but not $4000 better than the Bolt 35 IMHO and we had them side by side with a top range Thermion. Jazz will be posting more of the Nocpix stuff up in the Cape shortly. We were a trial run and it seems this group will be hosting guided thermal hunts as an option in the future.

Now from personal experience. The scope is the last link of the chain and providing it holds zero, probably least important. Spend good dollars on a thermal monocular with a wide field of view at low magnification. High mag in both mono and scope is a sales gimmick and really useless until you spot a heat source. I run a 1.75 base mag mono that finds stuff in a hurry. Once found the scope gets turned on and game shot. Don't but the Ace or Rico or Thermion top of the line as I did. Buy the Bolt or Hicmicro equivalent as both have the best back up with Nocpix stating a 2 week deadline. If in 2 weeks a problem can't be solved, a new item is sent out. I know this from personal experience having an issue with a distorted image in certain situations from a fault in the grind of the ocular lens in my Infiray, now known as Nocpix, Rico Rh50 R.. Spend the big dollars on the mono. The Bolt has all you need as does the Hicmicro with a compact size fitting into regular 30 mm rings, both have adequate range finder capability with ballistic solution recoil activated video WiFi Bluetooth etc. All the useless junk really.
At some point you are going to get really tired of scanning with a rifle and will want a mono. Sure as the sun rises and there are nights, many of them, where the scope never gets turned on. As for clip ons. Nathan from Edge of the Outback has somewhere in his collection of YouTube stuff why professionals steer well clear of them. Also the better brands of scopes will not honour warranty if you are found to have used a clip on.
Your money your choice. But I have seen how this story usually ends.

[Duramax]

Wapiti. Just a point confirmed by two reps. Pulsar uses Hicmicro components in their scopes. Hicmicro is made in China. Unfortunately this is hard to escape as they do make the best sensors. As for CGSI, made in Canada, that remains to be seen but for me their cost versus their performance has been well and truly outstripped by Pulsar of late and certainly by Infiray (Nocpix) for quite some time. Pulsar got caught out self admittedly with fictitious micro Kelvin claims where they have just now caught up to the others, by use of imported sensors.
I hear exactly what you are saying. Here is the problem. I can purchase a highly used component for an underground drilling rig for under 1k LANDED from China. It costs, if serviced, 3k, our cost, just to have it hard chromed. The quality is the same, it lasts as long etc. We give the customer the option. Guess where it goes? It is now unfortunately inescapable.

[Wapiti]

Completely agree on the "scan with a monocular, not the scope" idea. What a way to drive yourself nuts by using the scope all night.

Now take this not as an insult, far from it, or any disrespect. But look at all the posts about
"what thermal do I need"
"how much money do I need to spend"
"how many degrees in engineering do I need to zero the f**ker or to screw around with a keypad of buttons in the dark in the mist and cold?"
"will it immediately be able to update my mates in real time how great I am?"

People are tying themselves up in knots about this BS and it just gets worse and worse.

I do not give two f**ks what this Nathan from YouTube thinks. What determines a "professional" anyway? Tickets on yourself?
Or is it the bloke who personally suffers the losses, and finds a way to fix it and doesn't post up self-appraisal videos online for profit?
Is it the product rep, or reselller, who is an expert in explaining all the features and what all the specs means, or the bloke who works all day on the farm then sits out for half the night actually fighting bulls**t features like lasers, wifi, or downloads to stroke over later? Or does he just go, screw all the bullsh*t, i want to just turn the damn thing on and go bang. At a distance that you can actually hold and shoot, not some crap 1800 or 2400m fantasy?
Someone who calls himself that, reviewing for gear to line his pockets, or the bloke making his own choices, and making the things work?

I want someone to tell me why clip-ons, that are so simple to fit and use, need no zeroing, "professionals" don't recommend? And why?
Because nobody lines their pockets unless they promote the latest wallet-lightener for everyone to argue the merits of, whilst the bloke with the most to lose is sitting on the hill with his $1999 tool.

To let you all get on with it, i will do you all a favour and leave this thread now. God help the buyers nowadays.