30-30 lever guns, still a viable cartridge/rifle in use?

[bigrich]

yup , your good to go 1-4 loopy is just so right , and doesn't add weight or affect the balance . just as a point of interest , cleaver have a 16" 30-30 wrangler 94 for sale , looks the same as yours except for the large loop . price is $2690 . they got one in 44mag trapper too . this model commands a good price for a reason . compact fast firepower

Hmmm. I guess the larger loops would suit a large hand in a heavy glove? Like in the northern US where it's snowy cold and gloves are mittens?

I remember the huge loops made popular by the John Wayne movies, where I think, he had the big lever to do the one-handed flick-over reload? Stupid idea really, if you were being besieged by a tribe of Indians or a posse of bandits, I wouldn't dare do something so dumb as to let my rifle fly away from me if I screwed it up.
Wonder how many times Arnie tossed that cut down 1887 into the weeds practising for Terminator 2?

Maybe it's the glove thing, although with my 3XL sized hands here in winter I do not have any drama getting the three fingers in the standard lever comfortably with good realistic hunting gloves, and with the lower part of the loop just clear of the back of my fingers, I reckon the reload is more controlled.
And the lever is nice and streamlined. Just me.
Then you see these huge levers, wrapped in paracord or leather string braided on to small them up.
It can't be for padding... it's not like you open a lever gun more than a few shots as is normal, so it's not like you do it so much you need padding?
But then I have no idea how many shots are fired by the western-action shooters though, so forgive my ignorance.

There was a company selling large replacement loops for Marlins, but I never saw them for Winchesters. That's good, because it's taken away the risk that I'd get sucked in to buying something I don't need. I guess I haven't ever used one, so know whether they are any help or not.

yeah, i believe the large loop is for gloved hands , thinking in alaska and the northern US states in the middle of winter you'd be wearing pretty thick gloves . i don't think mittens would cut it .

large loops in movies ? john wayne as "rooster cogburn" in the original "true grit" riding head on at a posse of bad guys , slinging that large loop winnie in one hand , six gun in the other with the horses reins in his teeth . pretty iconic scene that sticks in my mind

https://youtu.be/NJoGqvvRhjo?si=XgcIG3Hac_Z8r8FU

from what i know of it , western action shooters fire off a lot of rounds very fast . paracord helps with getting blisters i guess . wonder how they got paracord in the 1880's wild west ?

[Wapiti]

These are the Speer 150gn Hot Cor bullets. Maybe a little flash for the 30-30 speeds, but might be good for heavy pigs.
There are a few of them at the moment, giving me the slip.

Speer150FlatNoses.jpg (689.06 KiB) Viewed 68 times

I loaded three with some once fired cases I bought, R-P headstamped. I used the White river primers, which went in nicely. The load was 32.5gn of 2206H, which is a load smack bang in the middle of the ADI load data. And I crimped the case necks in the cannelure grove on the projectiles.

[Wapiti]

Being a tight lazy bastard this evening, I used the same target from yesterday. I assumed that this handload, as opposed to the hot PPU factories, would shoot somewhere else. I was wrong.
Again, this rifle amazes me. Straight over the top.

150HotCor32.5gn2206H.jpg (695.78 KiB) Viewed 67 times

No big flashes today though, this load seems to be all burning in the barrel. No I didn't chrony it, it doesn't matter.
One thing I was surprised by, was that after I shot the rifle I could smell burnt Hoppes 9, and twigged I'd forgotten to patch out the wet-swabbed bore I'd put in last night after the shots then. So there's no "cold bore clean bore" first shot thrown off in this gun.

Sure it's only 3 shots, before the 5-shot-group guys say it's not indicative of consistency. That's got no merit in a bush/farm/hunting rifle, the first cold-bore shot is the important one, and if a 3-shot group is no good, 5 is a waste of consumables.
The best thing is that these two completely different sets of 3 went into the same place.
These 94's do not in any way come second best.

[bigrich]

Being a tight lazy bastard this evening, I used the same target from yesterday. I assumed that this handload, as opposed to the hot PPU factories, would shoot somewhere else. I was wrong.
Again, this rifle amazes me. Straight over the top.

150HotCor32.5gn2206H.jpg

No big flashes today though, this load seems to be all burning in the barrel. No I didn't chrony it, it doesn't matter.
One thing I was surprised by, was that after I shot the rifle I could smell burnt Hoppes 9, and twigged I'd forgotten to patch out the wet-swabbed bore I'd put in last night after the shots then. So there's no "cold bore clean bore" first shot thrown off in this gun.

Sure it's only 3 shots, before the 5-shot-group guys say it's not indicative of consistency. That's got no merit in a bush/farm/hunting rifle, the first cold-bore shot is the important one, and if a 3-shot group is no good, 5 is a waste of consumables.
The best thing is that these two completely different sets of 3 went into the same place.
These 94's do not in any way come second best.

that's great accuracy , i think your right about the short barrel being stiffer and less prone to moving around . winnies can have a nice crisp trigger too , quite often better than a standard marlin trigger . after 3 shots everything's buggered off anyway. i never bother with 5 shot groups myself

[Wapiti]

Oh yeah mate, way before the 3rd shot everything has hit 25kmh and leaving the party.
It is definitely the 1st shot from a cold barrel.

The trigger on this one is terrible, trying to get a precise shot is very possible as the groups show but gee you haven't much to hang onto to hold the thing steady. Looking at the crosshairs on 4x they were rolling left/right a bit, my results are arse not class.
But that short fat barrel is all trussed up tight with the steel bands and the mag tube and it doesn't seem that hanging onto the thing up front tight and pulling it into the front bag to try and keep it steady, has any influence on the groups.
The other thing is the way it didn't change the impact point for a completely different load. Amazing.

I'd never thought, looking at that thing as a true original from 1894, made by the same company 100 years later could have such accuracy potential.
It's the addition of the smallest scope I could find that showed me that, using a red dot or peeps didn't, I had no idea.

That gun hasn't had more than 50-60 shots through it from new in the early '90's because I got a short 16" 7600 Patrol after that and frankly it shadowed the lever in everything. But is it a better brush gun? Not better but different.
So I'd bet if I did work out how to pull the thing apart, I bet I'd find some pretty rough surfaces of the trigger bits. I'd also bet that with some Autosol polishing on a Dremel mop it would make a huge difference?
The bolt coming back, dragging over the front of the hammer as it cocks it, feels very stiff and gritty too. I can feel it in the lever.

Has anyone pulled a '94 apart?
Is it that scary complicated?
I ask because a mate had one of the awful '70's '94's and he'd pull it to bits to clean it, and never work out how to put it back together.

[bigrich]

Oh yeah mate, way before the 3rd shot everything has hit 25kmh and leaving the party.
It is definitely the 1st shot from a cold barrel.

The trigger on this one is terrible, trying to get a precise shot is very possible as the groups show but gee you haven't much to hang onto to hold the thing steady. Looking at the crosshairs on 4x they were rolling left/right a bit, my results are arse not class.
But that short fat barrel is all trussed up tight with the steel bands and the mag tube and it doesn't seem that hanging onto the thing up front tight and pulling it into the front bag to try and keep it steady, has any influence on the groups.
The other thing is the way it didn't change the impact point for a completely different load. Amazing.

I'd never thought, looking at that thing as a true original from 1894, made by the same company 100 years later could have such accuracy potential.
It's the addition of the smallest scope I could find that showed me that, using a red dot or peeps didn't, I had no idea.

That gun hasn't had more than 50-60 shots through it from new in the early '90's because I got a short 16" 7600 Patrol after that and frankly it shadowed the lever in everything. But is it a better brush gun? Not better but different.
So I'd bet if I did work out how to pull the thing apart, I bet I'd find some pretty rough surfaces of the trigger bits. I'd also bet that with some Autosol polishing on a Dremel mop it would make a huge difference?
The bolt coming back, dragging over the front of the hammer as it cocks it, feels very stiff and gritty too. I can feel it in the lever.

Has anyone pulled a '94 apart?
Is it that scary complicated?
I ask because a mate had one of the awful '70's '94's and he'd pull it to bits to clean it, and never work out how to put it back together.

Mate , go up the road and see Jim Kent about your trigger, he’s a wizard with a lot of this old school stuff. You won’t regret it. Cheers

[Wapiti]

Oh yeah mate, way before the 3rd shot everything has hit 25kmh and leaving the party.
It is definitely the 1st shot from a cold barrel.

The trigger on this one is terrible, trying to get a precise shot is very possible as the groups show but gee you haven't much to hang onto to hold the thing steady. Looking at the crosshairs on 4x they were rolling left/right a bit, my results are arse not class.
But that short fat barrel is all trussed up tight with the steel bands and the mag tube and it doesn't seem that hanging onto the thing up front tight and pulling it into the front bag to try and keep it steady, has any influence on the groups.
The other thing is the way it didn't change the impact point for a completely different load. Amazing.

I'd never thought, looking at that thing as a true original from 1894, made by the same company 100 years later could have such accuracy potential.
It's the addition of the smallest scope I could find that showed me that, using a red dot or peeps didn't, I had no idea.

That gun hasn't had more than 50-60 shots through it from new in the early '90's because I got a short 16" 7600 Patrol after that and frankly it shadowed the lever in everything. But is it a better brush gun? Not better but different.
So I'd bet if I did work out how to pull the thing apart, I bet I'd find some pretty rough surfaces of the trigger bits. I'd also bet that with some Autosol polishing on a Dremel mop it would make a huge difference?
The bolt coming back, dragging over the front of the hammer as it cocks it, feels very stiff and gritty too. I can feel it in the lever.

Has anyone pulled a '94 apart?
Is it that scary complicated?
I ask because a mate had one of the awful '70's '94's and he'd pull it to bits to clean it, and never work out how to put it back together.

Mate , go up the road and see Jim Kent about your trigger, he’s a wizard with a lot of this old school stuff. You won’t regret it. Cheers

Thanks for the tip mate. Where's that bloke?
Travelling with guns to gunsmiths is such a pain in the anus where we are, which is mostly why I try everything myself.

Last night The Barn email in my inbox has Whire River primers at ridiculously cheap pre-covid prices, and I was just in Toowoomba two days ago on a few errands for farm gear. That'd be bloody right.

[Fester]

YouTube should be your friend on how the 94s strip down. I have never had one, but the 336 clone is a breeze for a normal strip-down for cleaning, never stripped it further.

I hate the big lever look and can't see any benefit for those not wearing Eskimo gloves.
The normal-shaped lever just looks sweet.

The 336-shaped stock just handles great, whether smashing the lever for fast, fun shooting, or quietly setting the hammer from half-cocked for a deer shot; just a great-handling, light brush rifle.
The parcord looks OK, but I have never got sore fingers, so no real point for me.
My Rossi is bright stainless steel, not ideal if the sun shines off it.

There is a great YouTube story about when Clint Eastwood turned up at the pistol range.
He quietly avoided the circus-looking crowd to go down the end to practice.
The circus turned out to be John Whane and his gang of hung-on friends.
The duke hated Clint's cowboy movies, bringing out the dirty stuff, rather than the cowboys always being the good guys.
They tried to hang s**t on Eastwood and challenged him to a target shootout.

Clint reluctantly accepted to get rid of them and said if he won, he expected an apology. He then said Let's do 50m instead of the std pistol range.
The Duke went first and put a few 10s in and some good high-scoring shots.
Clint stepped up feeling a little nervous, but his practice paid off and he shot what would have been a club record, a club official later told him after witnessing it all.

Whane rang Easwood and gave a sincere apology and talked a bit, they became friends.

Another, from that channel, was when Eastwood was leaving the set and walked past Bronson doing a shoot.
He watched on and approached Bronson, saying he had never witnessed such fast, accurate drawing and shooting.
Apparently, Bronson took his work very seriously and practiced to perfection.

I must check that channel again, no real footage, just a few photos, but great stories.

[Wapiti]

That's great info Fester. Think about the gay Hollywood freaks now they are all "gunplay" in the movies for profit and fame but when not acting call for the banning of guns.
Oh when men were real men, not girls.
Except for Keanu Reeves, he is the real deal, have you seen how fast he is with his race-guns? He even features comp guns he shoots with in his movies.
Hollywood hate him, he gives them the middle finger, as does anyone with any standards nowadays.