Seating depths

[madang55]

Why am I not able to get consistent seating depth?
Primarily 6.5 Creedmore. Hornady dies, which I'm not fond of... I don't trust the bits that move inside the die.
RCBS press. I've tried Hornady and RCBS shell holders.
Primers are all seated below the case head so there's no protrusions.
A mixture of case brands, Win, Hdy. Cases are all trimmed nicely and consistent. The only difference might be in the case/base thickness, but not to account for the differences in the results. Sometimes way short, sometimes long.
I have the press set up so the ram is at the stop point. (no over travel or under travel)
Driving me nuts. (being polite)

[Duramax]

What bullet? How or what are you measuring? Is it ogive to case base or base to bullet tip? Are case necks annealed and or lubed?
You mentioned different case brands so are you comparing seating depth between same brand or different brands?

[deye243]

Inconsistent neck tension is one of the biggest contributors to this problem especially when using soft jacketed projectiles like hornadys eldm and a lot of varmint bullets

[Damo300]

Are you using a bullet comparator to measure?

[deye243]

Damo300 post has reminded me that not all mesure properly .
Are you mesuring overall length or doing it properly with a comparator .
I use this works a treat

Screenshot_20260925_215920_Chrome.jpg (107.96 KiB) Viewed 285 times

[Wapiti]

I have struck what madang is talking about too, and it's quite a pain.

I get this when measuring rifling to bolt face dimensions to get a consistent number too, using a dedicated comparator tool, as well as the simple tool above that Dye posted up a pic of. I even get it with a OAL gauge set.

Some soft projectiles are just bastards (yes, big name copper jacketed ones), it's so easy to get the long tapered tips to stop in the measuring gauge consistently each time. Especially with the super-accurate dial calipers available now. They pick up this inconsistency every time.

And when dropping a projectile into the chamber and having it stop against the rifling to measure it with the tool... to get the number in the first place...
it's so easy to push a bullet in differently each time. I pick that up using a dial caliper.
This does not make any sense, but when I was using a Chinese electronic caliper, I could NEVER get a consistent number.
Buying a Mitutoyo one made in Japan solved that.
Being numbers nut I much rather use an analogue dial gauge.

When seating, you cannot get a measurement consistency quite often as well, bullet grip (neck tension) is a factor. This changes with older cases as they get harder in the necks.
This is more compounded though, if you have a sharp-edged seating stem that "bites" into the long, soft copper ogives of the bullet designs demanded by visual looks and "long range" long-tipped shapes people use.
The seating stem bites into the bullet differently every time, with the inconsistent neck tensions of each case. No matter how much people screw around with annealing, a waste of time because that in itself gives different hardness numbers between cases. Forget that.

Try looking at the inner of the seating stem. Does the bullet sit in it supported over a few mm, or does it bite into the bullet and actually swage it a little as it seats in a tight case neck? The bullet tip is the first thing to compress, and then spring back differently each time.

I think it was that incredibly experienced LR shooter and reloader, Erik Cortina, who says, YES this is a pain, but you can only get an average number. pretty sure he's often said it's impossible to be 100% consistent with this each time, you can only get an average number and work with what you have. He reconned that this makes no difference, or at least one that is uncontrollable 100% consistently.

[Fester]

Sorting head stamps could be the first thing to try as consistency is what reloaders need when using basic type dies.

I love the feel of gently seating pills in a freshly annealed batch of cases, it just feels so easy, compaired to cases that have been around the block a few times, and can need some force to seat the projy.

Using good lube, and something for inside the necks helps with sizing consistency.

The Creedmoor is one of the easiest cals that I have ever loaded.

I use different brands of batched cases, and recently dropped .4 of a grain of powder but it just always shoots and half MOA capable, despite the barrel being past it's best.

[bigrich]

Why am I not able to get consistent seating depth?
Primarily 6.5 Creedmore. Hornady dies, which I'm not fond of... I don't trust the bits that move inside the die.
RCBS press. I've tried Hornady and RCBS shell holders.
Primers are all seated below the case head so there's no protrusions.
A mixture of case brands, Win, Hdy. Cases are all trimmed nicely and consistent. The only difference might be in the case/base thickness, but not to account for the differences in the results. Sometimes way short, sometimes long.
I have the press set up so the ram is at the stop point. (no over travel or under travel)
Driving me nuts. (being polite)

as others have said , neck tension, brass thickness in the neck . i try to stick with one brand of decent quality brass and have no issues . i anneal after 3rd firing, my 222 gives stellar accuracy on 6 times fired brass . i have to anneal my fire formed 338-06 brass ,sized up from 30-06, as groups dropped off when cases were reloaded. lost the neck tension , actually felt "soft" when seating bullets . initial accuracy with the new resized cases was fantastic . there's a few tricks to this reloading game , just be thankful your not playing with 22 hornet i got great accuracy out of one i had , but i had to learn some tricks first . keep persisting , and most importantly keep asking questions

[madang55]

Projectiles: 140gr HDY Match. 140gr Match Kings, 140gs Barnes Match Burners. Almost identical.
Comparator: no, digital callipers measuring COL, base to proj tip. All are HPBT, so no chance of "squashing" a plastic tip. Comparator.....getting a bit involved.
Annealed, yes. Really like my Aussie made machine.
Dry tumbled, flash holes clean, mouths chamfered. Trimmed. But the length of a trimmed case should not affect COL, you just end up with different case lengths.
Wapiti has one important answer I think. The correct seating stem for the correct projectile to avoid the "biting" and deformity.
And, sticking to one brand of brass. That will give a bit more neck tension uniformity. Not sure about lubing the inside of the case necks before seating. that could create more chances of "not right".
I'm not competing for sheep stations, so not chasing the lands. I get pretty good groups at the moment, which, I'm sure, will be made better by consistent COL
Oh...and yes I have played with 22Hornet. Lots of split necks comes to mind.

[bigrich]

Projectiles: 140gr HDY Match. 140gr Match Kings, 140gs Barnes Match Burners. Almost identical.
Comparator: no, digital callipers measuring COL, base to proj tip. All are HPBT, so no chance of "squashing" a plastic tip. Comparator.....getting a bit involved.
Annealed, yes. Really like my Aussie made machine.
Dry tumbled, flash holes clean, mouths chamfered. Trimmed. But the length of a trimmed case should not affect COL, you just end up with different case lengths.
Wapiti has one important answer I think. The correct seating stem for the correct projectile to avoid the "biting" and deformity.
And, sticking to one brand of brass. That will give a bit more neck tension uniformity. Not sure about lubing the inside of the case necks before seating. that could create more chances of "not right".
I'm not competing for sheep stations, so not chasing the lands. I get pretty good groups at the moment, which, I'm sure, will be made better by consistent COL
Oh...and yes I have played with 22Hornet. Lots of split necks comes to mind.

yeah , the 22 hornet can be a tricky one . a combination of tricks made my hornet shoot fantastic . partial FLS , small pistol primers to help with bullet jump as well as a light crimp with a lee factory crimp die . you could really make it shoot , but yes, those cases are really thin . getting back to your dilemma with your CM , one thing i'll say about winchester brass for reloading is i've read somewhere it's not annealed . knew a young fella who was reloading for a 270 and was getting split necks and having accuracy issues using once fired winchester brass. he did as i suggested and annealed with a plumbers torch and a battery drill , next batch of ammo shot great . your seating die may have a issue as you suggest . the hornady bullet seating dies have a moving "guide " inside of them , maybe this one has a issue . i like hornady dies and have no problems myself , but RCBS are my go to dies these days . simple solid well made dies. one thing you could try is change to another brand of brass , maybe starline , and try that for a while .

[Fester]

In regards to the inside neck lubing, it's just a method of getting consistent full-length sizing, same as using a good case lube.
It results in far less case stretching, and you will feel the difference on the press handle.

They do the ogive measurement, as it is more accurate, and OAL can be a bit all over the place, projectile-dependent.

I don't do a lot of ogive measuring as I have no need. I don't jam, and I've never found much benefit in chasing the lands.
I just jump say 15-20 thou on a target single-loader, 40 thou on a hunting rifle using mags.

When my .223 lost it's new barrel grouping accuracy after somewhere north of 6,000 rounds, I tried getting closer to the burned lands, to no avail. By fluke, I found shorter ammo that I loaded for a mate and got some accuracy back.
It didn't help the 6.5 when it lost a bit after a few thousand rounds.
Nothing would get it back, but I just shoot plates, not F-class groups.

[bigrich]

In regards to the inside neck lubing, it's just a method of getting consistent full-length sizing, same as using a good case lube.
It results in far less case stretching, and you will feel the difference on the press handle.

They do the ogive measurement, as it is more accurate, and OAL can be a bit all over the place, projectile-dependent.

I don't do a lot of ogive measuring as I have no need. I don't jam, and I've never found much benefit in chasing the lands.
I just jump say 15-20 thou on a target single-loader, 40 thou on a hunting rifle using mags.

When my .223 lost it's new barrel grouping accuracy after somewhere north of 6,000 rounds, I tried getting closer to the burned lands, to no avail. By fluke, I found shorter ammo that I loaded for a mate and got some accuracy back.
It didn't help the 6.5 when it lost a bit after a few thousand rounds.
Nothing would get it back, but I just shoot plates, not F-class groups.

bullet seating in regards to the lands is something i've never bothered with . some of my most accurate rifles are at the bullet makers COL or 10-20 thou longer . another consideration is how much bullet is in the neck and what this does with neck tension on the bullet and the runout in regards to the "straightness" of the bullet with to alignment to the bore . my 222 uses 50 vmax bullets at factory COL and shoots bugholes . my 308 tikka shoots 150 game kings at .2" @100 at 2.750" COL , standard T3 lite. not a lot of bullet in the neck with this , i couldn't seat out if i wanted to. one of my most accurate rifles i used to have was a sako 9.3x62 "grizzly" . 9.3 has a lot of freebore , this load shot .5" with 220 thou off the lands . so for me , i don't worry about chasing the lands . sometimes shorter COL has been best accuracy . seating close to the lands can play with the pressure as well , which can upset things . i'm not going to say my views and experiences are the be all and end all , but here they are for what it's worth

[Fester]

Yeah, just my own findings, but sometimes I wonder if that fine-tuning with length is just keyboard talk, that got spread around online rather than real-life shooting.

I just fine-tune with groups and powder charges to try and be in the center of a node.
If I get low single-digit SDs, fine, and it shows stuff works.
If the SD is 35, tough if it still shoots bugholes.

140gr Berger VLDs wouldn't shoot for me until I jammed them, but that's a thing with those VLDs.
The Sepo F-class shooters can have them all as far as I am concerned.
I wasted near a box before they started grouping, then the shops are out of stock again.

To stay consistent with a tiny jump, you would be chasing the lands every few hundred rounds shot as the barrel burns.

[madang55]

So, turns out I do have the correct seating stem for the projectiles I am loading.
I just tossed a swag of HDY and WIN brass, and have kept the NORMA and SAKO brass I have. I have also set aside the pre-set die collars "L&L" and am going back to the basics of carefully fitting and setting the dies. Hopefully reducing the variables. We shall see.

[ButchDDG41]

I just did up a batch of .303 last night. First time loading for this calibre. A mate gave me a box of Sierra Matchking 174 gr projectiles and the load data he had been given from an 'old bloke' he got the old brass from. So after I FLS a batch of 50 I set to work loading them up. For the life of me I could not get all of them to seat evenly with some of them clearly being off kilter. I have no need to check runout with a dial indicator as these are so off centre Ray Charles could see it from across the room. The dies I am using are Lee, as I was reloading these for a mate otherwise I would have stuck with Redding dies. My question is, do I persevere with the Lee dies and proceed very carefully, or do I get another seating die that has a better seating system. I will add that I was using a compressed load of 2209, this may have been upsetting the seating process. I have never run compressed loads in any of the other calibres I reload for (22-250, 223, 270).