Where will all the insane laws stop?

[Warrigul]

This is probably opening a can of worms and if the administrators think it too controversial please delete.

Also I am not having a direct go at Police on the ground.

What ever happened to being treated as an individual and having the right to live our lives undisturbed as long as we did no harm?

Port Arthur was perhaps the most obvious starting point, a large section of the community , who were law abiding model citizens, were made to pay for the actions of one insane man. Suddenly following tradition simply became a crime and under the threat of confiscation, fines and even imprisonment simply for doing what we had been doing for centuries.

Then it was the dangerous dog act and stereotyping certain breeds as dangerous, the owners facing huge fines for simply doing what they had been doing for years.

Then the hoon laws (perhaps there is some usefulness in this instance but not in the way it is applied at times)

Then it was the Outlaw Motorcycle group association laws, which have been shown to be ridiculous with many Police Officers fitting the criteria for association through family members etc etc.

Now in Victoria it is illegal to have a 2meter high fence, a locked gate (in actual fact this is a requirement if you have a dangerous dog breed, go figure) and security cameras.

These are just the obvious ones, perhaps the biggest gripe I have is the way in which they can be applied and how there seems to be very little thought given to how people are being treated as criminals simply because they are part of a group.

There are heaps of other stupidly conceived, knee jerk laws being passed weekly. The first criteria should be that if there is legislation there already use that.

Bitch over.

[saucy]

Now in Victoria it is illegal to have a 2meter high fence, a locked gate (in actual fact this is a requirement if you have a dangerous dog breed, go figure) and security cameras.

Wait, what?

Illegal to have a fence, gate and camera?

WTF is the reasoning behind that?

[Lorgar]

Wait, what?

Illegal to have a fence, gate and camera?

News to me too... Got a link or something Warrigul?

[Warrigul]

Wait, what?

Illegal to have a fence, gate and camera?

News to me too... Got a link or something Warrigul?

Sorry, I was referring to the anti fortification laws, they have worded it so they include fences over 1.8meters tall and locked gates.

Yes they are meant to apply to bikies only but can be applied as they see fit.

[SendIt]

Sorry, I was referring to the anti fortification laws, they have worded it so they include fences over 1.8meters tall and locked gates.

Only in a politicians mind could a 2m treated pine fence be a fortification.

[saucy]

Sorry, I was referring to the anti fortification laws, they have worded it so they include fences over 1.8meters tall and locked gates.

Riiight. I'm with you now.

Can't locked your own gate? FFS.

[Aster]

Sorry, I was referring to the anti fortification laws, they have worded it so they include fences over 1.8meters tall and locked gates.

That's no doubt just made 10s of thousands of people "criminals" if you take it word for word.

-1.

[Monty]

This is probably opening a can of worms and if the administrators think it too controversial please delete.

All good as long as everyone's constructive about it.

If it deteriorates into police bashing then the padlock comes out.

[Warrigul]

This is probably opening a can of worms and if the administrators think it too controversial please delete.

All good as long as everyone's constructive about it.

If it deteriorates into police bashing then the padlock comes out.

Yep, the bloke on the ground really can't be blamed for what happens.

Off topic a bit: I know moderating is not my concern but if it were neccesary I would prefer that where possible the individual get edited rather than the entire thread locked(I appreciate that it is extra work). I know media and politics can get a bit out there at times on other forums, but it is usually one or two individual members that spoil it for everyone.

Thanks.

[Supporter]

Now in Victoria it is illegal to have a 2meter high fence, a locked gate (in actual fact this is a requirement if you have a dangerous dog breed, go figure)

Too many cooks in the kitchen.

[SendIt]

Yep, the bloke on the ground really can't be blamed for what happens.

99% of the time I'd be on board with that. There are moments though...

I can't remember where it was exactly but within the last few months ( I think ) there was a statement from some senior officer after a couple of firearm thefts where he said something like "it's disappointing to see people only meeting the minimum security requirements".



We the people don't make the laws, the guys on his side of the fence do. People can get charged if they don't follow a law to the last letter, then when they do follow them exactly as required they get criticised for not doing enough?

Give it a rest...

[Blackened]

I know moderating is not my concern but if it were neccesary I would prefer that where possible the individual get edited rather than the entire thread locked(I appreciate that it is extra work).

That's the general philosophy we employ here.

I know media and politics can get a bit out there at times on other forums, but it is usually one or two individual members that spoil it for everyone.

They can and it usually is.

Conversations will obviously get heated or go a little off track from time to time. If everyone can simmer down and get things back on track, we're happy for the conversation to continue.

As you well know, sometimes people just can't let things go and action has to be taken. Usually that will be locking the thread at the point were it went off the rails rather than deleting it.

I think you'd agree we have a pretty good class of forum member here and "arguments" are usually pretty civil. If we find members who are continually flaming, derailing conversation or otherwise being a pain, we pretty quick to get rid of them rather than continually lock topics that they muck up.

Seems to have worked well so far.

[Muddy1967]

Respect to the man with the big stick
+10

[stevy]

If we find members who are continually flaming, derailing conversation or otherwise being a pain, we pretty quick to get rid of them rather than continually lock topics that they muck up.

Much better idea.

[on_one_wheel]

If I lived on a deer farm with 2 mtr tall fencing all around and locked gates and cameras for security would that deem that propety a fort. I was considering a full perimeter 2 ft thick reinforced concrete wal,l 3 mtrs tall topped with razor wire and broken glass with a railway iron and 25mm biz steel plate mechanical sliding gate, and perhaps an escape tunnell incase of a fire / gate fail

[Prios]

If I lived on a deer farm with 2 mtr tall fencing all around and locked gates and cameras for security would that deem that propety a fort.

Technically it would, that's the complaint.

Not that the cops would go after you for it, but...

[squirrelhunter]

My grandmothers veggie garden is now officially "fortified"

[Eduardo]

What's the rational for the anti-fortification law?


Never mind, I looked it up here.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-06/v ... es/5001164

Seems pretty absurd to me. It presumes guilt. If there is reasonable suspicion that a crime is occurring, that's what warrants are for.

[Old Fart]

What's the rational for the anti-fortification law?

Never mind, I looked it up here.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-06/v ... es/5001164

Seems pretty absurd to me. It presumes guilt. If there is reasonable suspicion that a crime is occurring, that's what warrants are for.

Yep.

To stop bikies making strongholds.

Unfortunately it's pretty standard in Australia to take a law intended for a specific group and apply it to everyone without cause.

[RealNick]

Yep,

My grandmother has a "fortified" flower garden now apparently

[Eduardo]

I guess the biggest question I have is how broad of a net did they cast with this law? Meaning, how does this law only target bikers without smacking of discrimination? To get away with wit this law, I suspect the law would have to apply to everyone even though the intent is to target the biker community. At least that's how it would have to be done here otherwise legitimate biker clubs would be outraged. . Do you folks suspect that you will see this law used beyond the outlaw biker community? Also, was there a huge problem that police were facing with entering "fortified" locations? I mean, if they suspect illegal activity, get a warrant a search the place. I guess I'm not following.

Yep.

To stop bikies making strongholds.

Unfortunately it's pretty standard in Australia to take a law intended for a specific group and apply it to everyone without cause.

[on_one_wheel]

They have had difficulty gaining acsess to clubhouses a few times, to the point they need to wait for the Star Force to roll up in the armoured riot truck to ram the gates. I say wait till they go in and hold em there Mexican stand off style, they will soon get hungry. Worst that can come out of the law is people being asked to make at least part of the boundry "easy" to enter.... now if you have been living on doughnuts and maccas, and driving for a living then "easy" might mean a gate made from cardboard. ( Wait untill Eduardo hears about the proposed anti assosiation laws )

[Eduardo]

Worst that can come out of the law is people being asked to make at least part of the boundry "easy" to enter...

Perhaps I'm being a bit overly dramatic but the way I read this is they are limiting your rights to defend your self with a gun and now you potentially have to make your homes easy to enter. Can you say "home invasion"?

My wife is from El Salvador and the only way people keep themselves safe in their homes it to fortify them. Almost all of the homes in many areas around San Salvador have stone walls with barbed wire, and bars on the windows.

( Wait untill Eduardo hears about the proposed assosiation laws )

I'm afraid to ask.

[padaro]

Perhaps I'm being a bit overly dramatic but the way I read this is they are limiting your rights to defend your self with a gun

"Limiting" is far too kind of a word.

It's basically all but forbidden.

[Warrigul]

Worst that can come out of the law is people being asked to make at least part of the boundry "easy" to enter...

Perhaps I'm being a bit overly dramatic but the way I read this is they are limiting your rights to defend your self with a gun and now you potentially have to make your homes easy to enter. Can you say "home invasion"?

My wife is from El Salvador and the only way people keep themselves safe in their homes it to fortify them. Almost all of the homes in many areas around San Salvador have stone walls with barbed wire, and bars on the windows.

( Wait untill Eduardo hears about the proposed assosiation laws )

I'm afraid to ask.

You have no idea how bad it is getting.

Simply by being related to a biker gang member (or any organisation they deem to be against the interests of the public) you can be made a prohibited person regarding firearms etc. Being associated with a biker gang (however loosely) means normal process is warped and even if the Police do the wrong thing you have to appeal it but wear the consequences in the meantime without any compensation if found to have been treated badly.

Other "good" motorcycle clubs who were never the intended target have found themselves on the recieving end recently simply because the law is there, and the law applies to ANY GROUP they want to apply it to.

We are going to hell in a basket down here in Australia, REAL quick.

On another note, a lady I used to teach is a refugee from El Salvador, there wasn't much of her family left to come to Australia after the government had finished with them so I have great respect for those from that country and especially those left. In fact any genuine refugee has my sympathy and respect, don't get me started on the economic refugees we are currently being swamped with.

[AusC]

You have no idea how bad it is getting.

My partner and I are seriously considering a move to Canada within the next few years...

[huccl]

My partner and I are seriously considering a move to Canada within the next few years...

Now that's dedication