Have American gun laws gone too far

[Macca]

I watch Iraqveteran8888 time to time when it pops up on youtube, saw this one the other day and was pretty shocked at some things they were saying tho... I love guns and believe some of Australia's gun laws are over the top and silly but this just seemed a bit to much to believe even for me. Its about whats the best gun to conceal and take to college/ what's the best gun to give to your kids to take to school for "self defence."

Watch the vid and let me know your thoughts, or if you agree of disagree

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_5E0Iott3k

[Combat_Wombat]

Not laws that are the problem it's the mentality of some of the country.

Look up and review for any new gun and a lot of yank reviews are all about home defence and how to ad 16364 attachments to make it more efficient in killing the "ze Germans" or zombies.

There is a craze called pocket dump on Instagram where they take a photo of the crap in their pockets. Always includes a concealed carry pistol, a mini knuckle duster, three knives and enough paracord to reach the moon and back.

I can imagine these guys commando roll and fire off ten shots every time a car door slams it's bloody riduculous.

[PaWNTANK]

As Wombat says, its more the mentality of some of people there than the laws.
Also I dislike Iraqveteran8888, not because I think it's a bad channel, They have lots of informative and well made videos. I just get super jealous watching them play with all the cool toys we aren't allowed here

[Macca]

yeh i know almost makes me want to get a holiday house over there! have you seen the vids on youtube of "The Big Sandy Shoot." the hole thing is insane, specially their night time shooting full auto with traces/explosives.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCppmoZiXUY

[oowess]

No such thing as too far the for the anti-gun mob here.

[ChicagoTed]

People who have a CHL are not the problem, it's the gangbangers.

Look up stats before making sweeping generalizations.

[coloradoboy]

what is wrong with that ??

self-defense is a fundamental right and everyone has the right to prepare in whatever legal way they believe will give them the best chance. I know that in Australia there are armed guards who protect cash-in-transit, i mean you protect something that is so material and there is somehow a fuss over protecting a living breathing human being ?

Maybe it is because we are Americans, but self defense is something we take very seriously. All CC holders are responsible, only the hustlers and criminals are not and they don't follow laws obs.

[Norton]

I can imagine these guys commando roll and fire off ten shots every time a car door slams it's bloody riduculous.

Only 10 shots? Not enough!

You need a 15 shot extended mag or you don't care about protecting your family!!!!!!!!!!!!

(obviously I'm taking the piss)

[Herdsman]

I read a couple of US forums, so over hearing the "you don't care about your family" accusations when it comes to self defence.

Unless you've got a MP5 and sleep in body armour your a bad parent according to half of them.

[Releb]

Some of them are over the top obviously. I saw a doco (forget which one) and a part had a group of friends telling the camera what they have for self defence.

Stuff you'd expect like .38 revolver, 9mm, a compact shotgun then one guy has a full-auto M16. Even all his friends are like WTF.

One of them says what happens if you miss and he says "I don't miss" like a action movie. bulls**t. Going around your house in the dark with the adrenaline of knowing someone has broken in with a FA 30 cal... I'll take something smaller thanks.

[Korkt]

Personally I think that video is a f***ing joke.

The top 5 guns for college? Shotgun, 2 rifles and 2 pistols? Where are you going to college? North west Burma?

It's this over the top s**t that paints us all as "gun nuts" instead of the rational responsible people that the majority of us are.

[Combat_Wombat]

I can imagine these guys commando roll and fire off ten shots every time a car door slams it's bloody riduculous.

Only 10 shots? Not enough!

You need a 15 shot extended mag or you don't care about protecting your family!!!!!!!!!!!!

(obviously I'm taking the piss)

Better yet a double drum that holds 70 rounds because aparently reloading is for chumps

[Norton]

what is wrong with that?

Mate, no one is arguing anyone's right to self defence. It's the cowboy mentality that is prevalent in the US that rubs people the wrong way.

If someone said "I'm looking for a pistol for self defence, I want something I can conceal but with enough stopping power and that's easy to use effectively" no rational person could argue with that. I doubt you'll hear a word otherwise from anyone here.

It's the guys that sleep with M16's leaning against the bedside tables and with 44 magnums under their pillows that cause the drama. And paint the picture to the public that we're all "gun nuts". The guys that say "you mustn't love your family" because you don't have an SMG or a drum-fed shotgun above the bedroom door.

[PaWNTANK]

Guys please, you obviously don't love your family unless you keep at the VERY LEAST a .500 S&W revolver or .50AE Deagle under your pillow and a Saiga with 20 round drum, red dot sight, fore grip, laser, flashlight and a huge muzzle break under your bed.

Also make sure to carry something like a Kriss Vector or AR-15 in your car in case you break down in a bad part of town or the zombie apocalypse happens on your way to work. Obviously taking the piss

Although I have seen someone on a forum say that they carried a SCAR in their car with several hundred rounds "just in case" so I'm not entirely taking the piss.

[lole]

No, you've got to sleep with your S&W duct taped to your hand!

[Title_II]

Wow.

[Harper]

They're joking in case you missed it Title

[Title_II]

I missed it! I thought people were telling them they weren't protecting their families unless they had an UZI under the pillow.

I'm thinking, "Where are they finding these people? Must be ArfCom"

[Norton]

We're joking mate, but some people genuinely think like that from what I've seen.

Oddballs I'd say...

[Pennsylvania Yank]

what is wrong with that?

Mate, no one is arguing anyone's right to self defence. It's the cowboy mentality that is prevalent in the US that rubs people the wrong way.

If someone said "I'm looking for a pistol for self defence, I want something I can conceal but with enough stopping power and that's easy to use effectively" no rational person could argue with that. I doubt you'll hear a word otherwise from anyone here.

It's the guys that sleep with M16's leaning against the bedside tables and with 44 magnums under their pillows that cause the drama. And paint the picture to the public that we're all "gun nuts". The guys that say "you mustn't love your family" because you don't have an SMG or a drum-fed shotgun above the bedroom door.

The "drama" is actually caused by huge numbers of passionate simpletons in elected positions who feel that civilians should simply not be permitted to possess firearms in their own homes. To the anti-gun left in America and worldwide, essentially anyone who believes in armed self defense is a "gun nut", so the question is how does one believe in and exercise their God given right to armed self defense without offending these kinds of folks? It just can't be done. I should not be compelled for any reason to bend over backward to try and appear deserving in the eyes of these freedom hating extremists.

[cavok]

The "drama" is actually caused by huge numbers of passionate simpletons in elected positions who feel that civilians should simply not be permitted to possess firearms in their own homes. To the anti-gun left in America and worldwide, essentially anyone who believes in armed self defense is a "gun nut", so the question is how does one believe in and exercise their God given right to armed self defense without offending these kinds of folks? It just can't be done. I should not be compelled for any reason to bend over backward to try and appear deserving in the eyes of these freedom hating extremists.

A most interesting post above. People, voters the same as you and I, however in a country in many ways different to ours. They elect those whom they perceive as being able to deliver what they as voters think they need, want, deserve. The constitution there with the Second Amendment etc. Politicians sway as to the feeling and pain felt but their constituents. Politicians per se will sell their souls to get one more term, they have no interest in the public, only their self serving agendas.

If looking at what the government wanted in regards to CWC years ago to what is now in play with concealed carry it appears that this is what the people want, the people that elected the representatives who forgot why they are in office. However there has always been and always will be those who think the right for the populous to have no say as to firearms, to rights, to merely be subjugated and follow what those in office dictate. Pacifists and those who do not understand that there is evil in the world that must be met head on with patriots who are will to not go silently into the night. However at times the lines become blurred, people forget what came before, that they only have rights and privileges now because someone before them gave more that others are now prepared to give.

Gun laws in America are not for us to understand, they are in the spotlight, stupid individuals here care little for gun laws in Israel or Switzerland, Africa or any other place, they have never confronted violence in the true sense, and this is good. There are no freedom hating extremists, there are just stupid people, or people who know no better, and will never understand. Patriots they will possibly be one day when they too shall see that freedom is not a right or privilege, it is a battle constantly waged on those who would wish to take away what is not their to take.

[Pennsylvania Yank]

There are no freedom hating extremists, there are just stupid people, or people who know no better, and will never understand. Patriots they will possibly be one day when they too shall see that freedom is not a right or privilege, it is a battle constantly waged on those who would wish to take away what is not their to take.

This is where I disagree to a large extent. There are many progressive extremists in America who believe that the Constitution "permits" a very radical amount of individual freedom, and they absolutely hate the fact that our Constitution and Bill of Rights essentially tell our federal government what it is not permitted to do, and where it is forbidden to tread. These folks want our Federal Government to control individuals and shape society in ways that would make our Founding Fathers demand another Revolution if they were alive today. Our current President and his entourage of 60's radicals are among this group.

But yes, mostly it's ignorant and/or misguided people(I call them passionate simpletons) with passion and lots of money who attempt to work the system to either reign-in or nullify certain individual firearms rights and freedoms for the so-called common good. However, they almost exclusively try to accomplish this by grossly misleading the public as to the meaning and scope of the laws they are trying to enact, and about their true end game, which is mass confiscation

It has become a constant battle today in America. The gun-control lobby used to go away to lick their wounds for several years every time they were trounced in the polls by a clear majority of Americans who consistently tell them to go pound salt..... But nowadays they are so well financed and have such a broad strategy, it is becoming more and more difficult to stop them everywhere.

[Title_II]

There's another guy from Pennsylvania here? How bout it.

[bigfellascott]

I like it! I say give the people back their rights to protect themselves with firearms instead of relying on someone eventually turning up with a gun!

[Title_II]

Gun laws in America are not for us to understand, they are in the spotlight, stupid individuals here care little for gun laws in Israel or Switzerland, Africa or any other place, they have never confronted violence in the true sense, and this is good.

It's not really the gun laws we have that make us different. It's the gun laws we don't have. For instance, I can carry a loaded AR-15 in public or a loaded handgun on my hip in Pennsylvania, without any sort of carry permit, gun license, background check, or anything at all. Do you know what law allows me to do this? There is no law. That is why I can do it.

BTW, no, we do not go around carrying AR-15s in grocery stores. That is for D-Bags. But we will carry them when we need them, and persuading politicians of our seriousness is a good example.

[cuvy]

what is wrong with that ??

self-defense is a fundamental right and everyone has the right to prepare in whatever legal way they believe will give them the best chance. I know that in Australia there are armed guards who protect cash-in-transit, i mean you protect something that is so material and there is somehow a fuss over protecting a living breathing human being ?

It's not a right in Australia. It is expressly forbidden to carry any "weapon" for the purpose of self defense. Not even a kubotan or tactical pen, since they are "weapons" for self defense. Pepper spray in most states is as illegal as a full auto machine gun.

The debate over guns at times obscures an underlying issue that we have no rights to carry anything for self defense. Of course, as always the laws do not stop criminals from carrying weapons to threaten or harm others.

[anthillinside]

what is wrong with that ??

self-defense is a fundamental right and everyone has the right to prepare in whatever legal way they believe will give them the best chance. I know that in Australia there are armed guards who protect cash-in-transit, i mean you protect something that is so material and there is somehow a fuss over protecting a living breathing human being ?

It's not a right in Australia. It is expressly forbidden to carry any "weapon" for the purpose of self defense. Not even a kubotan or tactical pen, since they are "weapons" for self defense. Pepper spray in most states is as illegal as a full auto machine gun.

The debate over guns at times obscures an underlying issue that we have no rights to carry anything for self defense. Of course, as always the laws do not stop criminals from carrying weapons to threaten or harm others.

Exactly correct.
It shouldn't be a gun debate here, it should be a screaming outcry about laws that actively preventus from protecting ourselves.
Even pasive protection is outlawed like body armour

[cavok]

Below is an extract from a submission to senate. Note the high handgun and the total number of licensed shooters in Australia both rifle and pistol.
WE are not few in number. Yes this is off topic but I am trying to point out just in case some have not seen the figures just how many we are and growing. Also some of the posts above are not quite right and need to be thought about.

"I have spent some little time digging into factual firearm number in Australia. The dates of the detailed numbers is 2013. Citations and source is provided.
Victoria; Private ownership 2013: 36,655
NSW; Private ownership 40, 497
Qld; Private ownership 24,444
TOTAL handgun OWNERSHIP Australia 172, 422 a very respectable number:
Shows a great number of honest citizens are in all states. The remainder of firearms quoted at around 2.9 Million and licence holders around 730,000 seems to confirm a previous posting."

As for not being able to protect ourselves, I ask against what or whom, and when. I have worked many years as a private investigator in various fields, I see not one person has ever wanted to attack me. I know many friends and acquaintances, I met many on a regular basis, they make no mention of needing body armour, of being attacked, why? Because this is Australia, yes we have once every blue moon some incident which is blown out of proportion by the media. So fear not, all is well.
Finally just in case you need to use force, please be advised of 1958 Crimes Act. Section 462a, " A person may use such force....." etc. Read it, know it, and use if you can justify that use of reasonable and proportionate force.

[cuvy]

As for not being able to protect ourselves, I ask against what or whom, and when. I have worked many years as a private investigator in various fields, I see not one person has ever wanted to attack me. I know many friends and acquaintances, I met many on a regular basis, they make no mention of needing body armour, of being attacked, why? Because this is Australia, yes we have once every blue moon some incident which is blown out of proportion by the media. So fear not, all is well.
Finally just in case you need to use force, please be advised of t. Section 462a, " A person may use such force....." etc. Read it, know it, and use if you can justify that use of reasonable and proportionate force.

So are you saying that just because you have never felt threatened or been attacked, that no one in our society is ever threatened or attacked? There are plenty of sexual assault victims who I think might take issue with what you're saying here. Sophie Collombet would probably also disagree, if she was able to.

Personally, I have never been threatened or attacked, however I'm a well built male who trains in combatives/personal protection. My wife, on the other hand, does not feel so safe all the time.

Yes, we live in a relatively safe country, however random violent crimes do happen, and the fact is that while we can legally use necessary reasonable and proportionate force to protect ourselves, a lot of people are simply unable to effectively deploy said force with empty hands.

Rather than relying on an ever more resource strained police service to protect us, I would prefer that we be legally allowed to take steps to take responsibility for our own safety.

(to be abundantly, 100% clear, I am not advocating concealed carry of handguns here - I am talking about self defense tools in general such as pepper spray or batons)

[cavok]

Self defence is an interesting concept. Your background suggests the threat to you is minimal.

In many personal attacks on many, I will go no further than that. At night, when they have been drinking, when alone many are vulnerable, the fact they where carrying a baton or pepper spray (should they be legal) would, dare I suggest be useless, especially against possibly a larger framed person intent on, who knows.

You mention Sophie Collombet I could mention several savage attacks against females, at night, during the day, against other individuals, again had they been allowed to carry a baton or pepper spray, I am unable to say if this would have changed the unfortunate outcome, but that remains the matter of speculation.

To be absolutely honest here, I am totally in favour of CC buy any individual who has a simple background check, a few lessons, and training. Also a great deal more, but lets see what happens.