Training small hunting dogs

[Combat_Wombat]

wondering if anyone has trained dogs to hunt rabbits? I've got a six month old Jack Russell pup that I've set onto rabbits that live in the local botanical gardens. He is quick enough to catch them but sees it as more of a game at the moment. I plan to shoot one next time I go out spotlighting and use it to get him onto the smell of blood and get the idea of killing it.

Is there any other tips t make them more effective? He already tracks their scent along the ground instinctively and usually spots them before I do.

[wrenchman]

my dads jack russel would crawl into brush piles and drag the rabbits dead

[Chronos]

His instincts should have him grab them and shake them to kill them and that's the game, to kill them then go grab another.

Make a dummy out of a tanned rabbit skin and a couple of tennis balls. Sew the skin around the tennis balls like a furry peanut then tie a rope around the middle so you can throw it out and drag it around for a game.

My mate uses his English springer in the blackberries. She kills a fair few (but doesn't tear them up and eat them) and he cleans up the ones that escape with his shotgun

Chronos

Edit: also meant to say another mate takes his whippets to the local golf course and his dogs will run then down and kill them with a few quick shakes. They don't eat them either, just go looking for the next one.

[Aussier]

Make a dummy out of a tanned rabbit skin and a couple of tennis balls. Sew the skin around the tennis balls like a furry peanut then tie a rope around the middle so you can throw it out and drag it around for a game.

I was going to say, "tug of war" with a rabbit teddy.

[Warrigul]

Make a dummy out of a tanned rabbit skin and a couple of tennis balls. Sew the skin around the tennis balls like a furry peanut then tie a rope around the middle so you can throw it out and drag it around for a game.

I was going to say, "tug of war" with a rabbit teddy.

Unless you know what you are doing with a dummy you can ingrain some very bad habits.

Fetch is okay but there needs to be some very specific commands like DROP that must be obeyed.

Tug of war is best left to a knotted rope or a stick.

I would stay away from stuffed dummies and just let natural instinct take hold, it is best to run them with older dogs but a young dog will start to hunt all by itself if you let it.

Teach it to walk at heel, stay, come when called and go when allowed. It will learn to kill all by itself. It is important to let young dogs play a bit if they want to and a small reward cut from anything you shoot will teach it that you will share whatever he brings back to the group(you are now his family), don't feed it offal.

Take a used dog blanket or one of your old jumpers with scent on it just in case he gets lost and you have to head home. Leave the blanket/jumper in the shade with water if you can and he will probably be there when you come back the next day.

You probably know most of what I have written already, I am not an expert but have had various hunting dogs most of my life.

[melanie]

don't feed it offal.

Because it's not a good enough reward for good behaviour or no good for them to eat?

[Warrigul]

Because it's not a good enough reward for good behaviour or no good for them to eat?

Hydatids.

Offal to dogs is part of the life cycle, the next part is dog to human.

One of the biggest risks to hunting dogs is coming across an infected wild carcase whilst in the bush and having a feed whilst the owner is left unaware.

[heron]

Unless you know what you are doing with a dummy you can ingrain some very bad habits.

Just what I've been told from some other owners but known a few who said they had/knew/adopted dogs that 'learned' to attack small white dogs from being taught to rough up teddies that resembled them.

[melanie]

Hydatids.

Yeah we don't want that

[Gwion]

A dog like a Russel will want to hunt by nature. The trick is to get him to do it when you want and not when you don't. Ie: "no, that's the nieghbour's cat, not a rabbit!"

A strong bond and firm leadership are important. I have two dogs with terrier (russel and parsons) in them and both have a mind of their own. Firm, consistent leadership and a strong bond. Yes, i said it twice. Terriers are very difficult to "dominate" and have a tendency only to listen to those that they are close to (the strong bond) and who are firm and fair (leadership).

If it is your dog alone, then establishing this is easy. If it is a family dog, then consistency in commands and what people let them do is critical or it will never be a reliable hunting dog. It may go on gleeful killing sprees, but will not do what it is told.

Stop. Back. Go. Wait. Bring. Give. Search. Any similar set of commands that you can reliably get the dog to obey and then the instinct and the bond and your leadership will have the dog hunting naturally with you as leader of the pack. You don't want it to think it's leader of the pack.

Also, tug of war can lead the dog to "guard resources", ie: not give when told to! This is different to teaching it to shake.

Just some things i've picked up from owning dogs most of my life.

[Warrigul]

Just what I've been told from some other owners but known a few who said they had/knew/adopted dogs that 'learned' to attack small white dogs from being taught to rough up teddies that resembled them.

Yep, they need to learn what is and isn't proper play, even if they are hunting dogs. Socialising is VERY important and I made the effort with the next doors dog last year to take it out and meet as many dogs as possible to learn all the cues and he pretty much knows which dogs to approach and which to stay clear of(the hard way). Dogs have their own social structure and language that we really have no hope of FULLY understanding.

I carry a lead weighted stick when socialising with other dogs.

Jennageit is some sort of dog trainer, she would probably have a better idea than any of us.

[Chronos]

Also, tug of war can lead the dog to "guard resources", ie: not give when told to! This is different to teaching it to shake.

Just some things i've picked up from owning dogs most of my life.

Just for the record I wasn't suggesting tug of war with a hunting/retrieving dog when I sugested making a dummy out of rabbit fur.

I was merely suggesting it as a tool to use when training a dog to retreive. We use a variety of dummy's and toys with our dogs. From floating rope toys to Doken fowl dummy's and bumpers.

Being able to communicate to your dog when it's time to play is important. We use off leash free play as a reward for work done. Walk at heel on a slack leash, sit, give attention to us and you get let off the leash at the beach, park or paddock to play.

Retrieving toys like dummy's and the like is work, not play. Ours are at the point now where they will sit at heal and mark the retreive until told to "go find" at which point they'll go hard at the toy and bring it back. "Give" is the verbal command they get and they must drop the toy at our feet without shaking or chewing it before they get praise.

This training is best done on a long rope at first so they learn its not acceptable to wander around when they're working. Start slow and work close in because you need to be in control of the dog.

I've got a few books and dvd's if you'd like to borrow and your around sydney. A lot of it will be relevant to training any behaviour not just retrieving gun dogs

Chronos

Edit: note them kind of retreiving our dogs are bred for is mwuite different from the kind of sight hound work the terriers and whippets are bred for. Killing rabbits and rats in sight is a differnt task to retreiving shot rabbits and fowl u damages for the table.

[Warrigul]

Ummmmm,

Trying to be nice but it's hard.

[Warrigul]

Yeah we don't want that

Regular worming is essential, both the dog and the owner/family members.

We all have a dose twice a year, even though hydatids isn't as big an issue here as on the mainland.

[Gwion]

Just for the record I wasn't suggesting tug of war with a hunting/retrieving dog when I sugested making a dummy out of rabbit fur.

No worries, Chronos. Just responding to some mention of "tug of war" by someone else.

[Combat_Wombat]

I've got all the commands drilled into him and it's only me and the other half at home. He gets more affection from her so she's more of the favourite but I'm definately the boss when it comes to orders.

I have a plush toy fox that he loves to get stuck into but never rips up or destroys. Also we have two cats that get stuck in and play with the dog but it never gets out of hand.

I'm pretty sure the hunters instinct is there I just haven't had an opportunity to let him have a proper crack at it yet.

[Combat_Wombat]

And just last week Ive got a new pup he's a kelpie/ black lab/ blue heeler but I've got no intention to hunt with him.

[Warrigul]

And just last week Ive got a new pup he's a kelpie/ black lab/ blue heeler but I've got no intention to hunt with him.

Anything(almost) will hunt if led but I would get the JR going first. JMHO

[Rakk]

Also, tug of war can lead the dog to "guard resources", ie: not give when told to!

A guy I knew who bred and trained staffies told me if you play games with them you have to 'win'. Like the the tug of war. If they end up with the toy you've 'submitted' it to them.

[Lorgar]

He gets more affection from her so she's more of the favourite but I'm definately the boss when it comes to orders.

Same story at my place. Mum is favourite, dad is boss. She gets more affection I get more sucking up to

I have a plush toy fox that he loves to get stuck into but never rips up or destroys.

Mine destroyed the few plush toys we tried, loves to immediately rip the stuffing out of them. Except one or two teddies she likes.