"Automatic"

[PaWNTANK]

Saw this on a popular site, I've seen it before and criticised it. Half the weapons aren't even automatic and the other half aren't easy to get in the states from what I understand. Someone has literally just listed all the weapons from the 2009 FPS CoD MW2 and called it fact. And the sad thing is heaps of people think it is real
M200 Intervention automatic? It is according to this.

[1290]

apart from the auto thing, remember the yanks call semi autos AUTO... auto pistols etc.... auto they call FULY auto, so all semis are up there including even a revolver!! They call semi auto rifles ASSault rifles

but I think I know what theyre getting at, maybe you missed the point pawntank??, Raw milk cheese, but more so the bacteria in these mouldy and other cheeses, who would have thought there'd be bacteria in them. You'd think people hadnt been consuming it for thousands of years...criminal offence to sell (raw) milk in Vic now, YAY for keeping us safe You can buy Permasan, in Vic, made from raw milk in Italy, but you cant make it here

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

A few corrections, if I may:

1. Revolvers are not known as autopistols. We call semi-automatics "self-loading" or "automatic loading". Not the same thing as fully automatic.

2. We do not call semi-automatic rifles assault rifles. This is a term used by the media to try to vilify them; you know, using scary words.

An assault rifle must be 1. of intermediate power cartridge, 2. capable of fully automatic fire, and 3. must have a pistol grip. For example, an M2 Carbine is not an assault rifle because it does not have a pistol grip. The cartridge is arguably intermediate; some consider it to be a pistol cartridge while others consider it a weak rifle cartridge.

However, drop an M2 Carbine into a stock with a pistol grip stock, and chances are it'd be considered an assault rifle.

Regards,

Josh

[1290]

'I' know revolvers are not auto or semi or full..... I refer to the image ^up there...which depicts a comparison of the seemingly harmless cheese being banned while genocidal firearms are legal....an obvious gun-grabber effort....

You'd be surprised Josh Smith, most of the readers around here actually do know what a semi-auto or self-loader is.....a lot of us had them until 96/97, some still do (with the correct category of licence)

It is the American collective my friend; your confused hordes of sheeple WHO DO NOT KNOW.....I'm sure that a lot of people believe most firearms other than muzzle loader and older or plain-stocked commercial bolt action rifles would be an Assault weapon... in fact, for all intents and purposes, practically anything IS an AW, no? It is a product of the media, pollies and the entertainment industry.....

into CA law went the following:
"Section 12276. (Amended by Stats. 1993, Ch. 606, Sec. 19.) Cite as: Cal. Penal Code §12276.
As used in this chapter, “assault weapon” shall mean the following designated semiautomatic firearms......."

thence goes on to list most off the shelf semis....

and The famous now expired 1994 Assault weapon ban? Text from PUBLIC LAW 103-322—SEPT. 13, 1994;

"Restriction on manufacture, transfer, and possession of certain semiautomatic assault weapons"

...you and I and a few others are aware of what an assualt weapon really is and that there are existing laws restricting (fully) automatic rifles (hence all existing/expired/proposed laws would deal only with semi-autos) but thats irrelevant as the statutes, Federal and of states, have defined for their purposes WHAT an assault weapon is.... even an M1 Carbine, if it had a flash hider and bayo lug.... would be an AW!

BTW, had someone have suggested to Hitler that a small .22 calibre based round be used in their new rifle design, then the world would have probably not seen the birth of the assault rifle (Sturmgewehr)

[handofcod]

Lol I had no idea a sawn off shotgun was an 'automatic'.... I guess that means I have an automatic too, albeit one with an 'extra long' 28" barrel.

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

Thanks. I thought there might have been a language barrier someplace (ie, "remember the yanks call semi autos AUTO... auto pistols etc.... auto they call FULY auto, so all semis are up there including even a revolver!!") Looked to me like there was a misunderstanding about the status of the revolver. Could be I was mistaken. If so, I apologize.

We have legal terms and technical terms. California is a great place to go for scary legal words based on emotion. No such thing as an "assault weapon" -- that was totally made up by the anti-gun lobby to mean whatever definition fit the moment. It's purposefully vague while sounding close enough like "assault rifle" to perhaps be mixed up, and when I see this happen, I strive to clarify. In other words:

Assault weapon: Something that does not actually exist as a defined firearm. A scary-sounding term.

Assault rifle: A rifle with a pistol grip and detachable magazine firing intermediate rounds that may utilize burst fire or fully automatic fire. A real term.

I know you good Aussie folks have semi-autos, and I find it deplorable that your government has done this to you. Didn't you all use the Browning High Power to great effect in the Second World War?

As I said, California law is largely based on fantasy. I belong to Calguns.net because it's a good place, but also to monitor their fight.

I like Indiana, where I live. It's not all that great for some things, but we, the gun owners, are actually rewriting the gun laws a bit every year. We went from a four-year handgun carry permit, for example, to a lifetime carry permit for $125.

Additionally:

We can carry our guns to schools. We have to leave them locked in the car, but we can no longer be prosecuted for having them on the grounds. A school shooting (or two) was stopped by an armed citizen.

We can no longer be fired from our jobs for having firearms locked in our vehicles parked in the lot while working.

"No gun" signs in windows have no force of law. We can ignore them.

No duty to inform police officers during traffic stops or whatever. (I choose to do so only if I'm ever asked to exit the vehicle. Otherwise, leaving guns in holsters seems to be the proper, prudent, safest action.)

There's a bunch more. Here's a link to Indiana Criminal Code: http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/2010/title35/

The first thing that you'll notice is the number of dumb laws that have been "repealed". We, the gun owners of Indiana, have helped greatly here.

We're not the most radical, though. At least one of our states has pending legislation which will prevent enforcement of federal gun laws, and compels local law enforcement to actually arrest any federal investigator who attempts to enforce federal regulations, including those prohibiting manufacture of machine guns, etc.

This is not without precedent. It's law in that state that federal regulations relating to marijuana will not be enforced, and federal investigators who try will be arrested. This is law. (I do not use nor endorse marijuana. However, it's been a source of some controversy and I support that state's solution to it. They regulate it through the local governments as they see fit.)

Indiana has made some national news recently about a law protecting business owners from being compelled to serve gay/lesbian couples. In reality, we just passed a law allowing gay/lesbian marriages. Businesses have always been able to deny business to anyone for any reason, but they started getting sued for denying based on sexual orientation. It simply protects a right businesses already have! (I have no problem, as a business, supplying anyone with what I sell. I do like that the law protects me in the case that I should have reason to not do business with a person.)

But, I digress here, really far in fact. I apologize, and will end now.

Regards,

Josh

[1290]

Josh, you guys crack me up... language barrier, we speak Strayan....

We also have the infection known as gun-grabitis and the psychological disorder known as gunphobia..... our grabbers proudly declare they have saved 1,000s of people from suicide and gun crime due to their work banning semis (and later removing many handguns) when a) there is no proof there was any change due to the gungrab b) very very few semis of the type that keep them up at night (M1,M1carb, Ar, AK,SK....etc) were actually handed in.... no figures were ever released...

Another consideration here is that we dont refer to firearms as 'weapons' as we are no permitted to own them for self defense, as such they are legally only for sport or rec/hunting unless we are security guards....(ie, definition of weapon....to injure etc another person...)

oh, and you dont need to apologise, maybe I could have been a bit more clear....

Ignoring no guns signs would, I assume only apply to public buildings, if private property I would assume the 'owner' retains the right to exclude people(and what theyre carrying)

About informing the police.... when we're stopped, no matter where in the country, they are aware before they leave their vehicle that we may be licensed, and therefore potentially carrying a firearm...as I recall the 'law' used this logic recently to defend the need for a registration system (if I recall correctly it was this train of thought) so as to protect the police as they will be aware of a potential threat when they stop a car.... of course most mentally stable and sane people would realise that it is the vehicles being driven by the un-licensed gunowners (particularly the subset known as criminals) who pose the threat.... but as we know there is no room for logic in the gun debate.


We're not the most radical, though. At least one of our states has pending legislation which will prevent enforcement of federal gun laws, and compels local law enforcement to actually arrest any federal investigator who attempts to enforce federal regulations, including those prohibiting manufacture of machine guns, etc. < its clear from many indicators, including such as this, that the S is going to hit the fan your way.. whether its internal or external... history tells us that when the economy is in the crapper... there's nothing like war to stimulate the economy whats your national debt, 17 Trillion dollars?? Trouble for us down under is that what big brother does (USA) the little guy (Aus) follows like an obedient puppy! WTF are WE doing in Iraq???

As far as supporting gay marriage, thats not really a digression, its all part of the plan to divide and conquer; mass immigration, gay marriage, gun-grabbing, removing personal and property rights, heavy taxes, it is absolutely, without a doubt Fabian Socialism, but we are so smart we dont realise, for goodness sake the constitution of the Political party with control of half the states in Australia, clearly states they are socialist.... but if you suggest to those who voted them in; they would laugh at you....

[ChicagoTed]

it always amuses me when cali law is discussed
it is a silly place

[Rocker]

Revolver there is an obvious one for anyone.

And is that a break open side-by-side shotty I see bottom right?

[Josh Smith]

Josh, you guys crack me up... language barrier, we speak Strayan....

We also have the infection known as gun-grabitis and the psychological disorder known as gunphobia..... our grabbers proudly declare they have saved 1,000s of people from suicide and gun crime due to their work banning semis (and later removing many handguns) when a) there is no proof there was any change due to the gungrab b) very very few semis of the type that keep them up at night (M1,M1carb, Ar, AK,SK....etc) were actually handed in.... no figures were ever released...

Another consideration here is that we dont refer to firearms as 'weapons' as we are no permitted to own them for self defense, as such they are legally only for sport or rec/hunting unless we are security guards....(ie, definition of weapon....to injure etc another person...)

oh, and you dont need to apologise, maybe I could have been a bit more clear....

Ignoring no guns signs would, I assume only apply to public buildings, if private property I would assume the 'owner' retains the right to exclude people(and what theyre carrying)

About informing the police.... when we're stopped, no matter where in the country, they are aware before they leave their vehicle that we may be licensed, and therefore potentially carrying a firearm...as I recall the 'law' used this logic recently to defend the need for a registration system (if I recall correctly it was this train of thought) so as to protect the police as they will be aware of a potential threat when they stop a car.... of course most mentally stable and sane people would realise that it is the vehicles being driven by the un-licensed gunowners (particularly the subset known as criminals) who pose the threat.... but as we know there is no room for logic in the gun debate.


We're not the most radical, though. At least one of our states has pending legislation which will prevent enforcement of federal gun laws, and compels local law enforcement to actually arrest any federal investigator who attempts to enforce federal regulations, including those prohibiting manufacture of machine guns, etc. < its clear from many indicators, including such as this, that the S is going to hit the fan your way.. whether its internal or external... history tells us that when the economy is in the crapper... there's nothing like war to stimulate the economy whats your national debt, 17 Trillion dollars?? Trouble for us down under is that what big brother does (USA) the little guy (Aus) follows like an obedient puppy! WTF are WE doing in Iraq???

As far as supporting gay marriage, thats not really a digression, its all part of the plan to divide and conquer; mass immigration, gay marriage, gun-grabbing, removing personal and property rights, heavy taxes, it is absolutely, without a doubt Fabian Socialism, but we are so smart we dont realise, for goodness sake the constitution of the Political party with control of half the states in Australia, clearly states they are socialist.... but if you suggest to those who voted them in; they would laugh at you....

Yup, language barrier. I have the same problem with the Brits. I have no idea what a crumpet is, and prefer coffee to tea.

Smart, not turning in the semi-autos...

Our (Indiana's) handgun permit system funds something similar: Our license fees go to training cops in the use of firearms! You know, it used to be a law in Indiana that we, as private citizens, have a duty to help cops in duress. It was found that we need no such law as there's enough folks here willing to mix it up with those giving the rest of us bad names.

I agree that the feces is about to hit the impeller. Problem is that "about" when referring to a time period in history can be a number of years. I personally believe that we'll be facing another civil war. Our first civil war was caused by the North buying raw materials from the South and selling it back to the South (which had no real manufacturing industry) at prices that kept the South poor and reliant on slave labor. The slavery abolition, by the way, went from being a good propaganda piece to being a real issue, only to turn into a larger issue when the North won and said, "What do we do with them now? We don't want them!"

This time, it is likely to be as much a States' and individuals' rights vs Federal rights war as it is a class war.

Our federal debt is owed as much to The People as to other nations.

I have no idea what you Aussies are doing in the Middle East. I'm glad you have our troops' backs; history shows you to be hell on the battlefield. That said, I'm more in favor of defensive wars with clear goals.

I'm reminded of that one time in history when we started using rifles (instead of muskets) for battle. I believe this was the American Civil War, too, when they were issued on a wide scale.

So what did the commanders do? They lined the soldiers up in formation and fired volleys just like with the old muskets.

A musket ball will stop in one or two people. A minie ball will go through several, and do greater damage in each.

Today, we're not fighting on battlefields. Battle tactics are still catching up. We need more snipers and designated marksmen, and we're getting them now. We're still learning, however, how to fight terrorists. No clear enemy to engage, you know?

How do you work that?

I'm a hunter. I wait for my supper to appear where it has to appear, then I shoot it. I'd expect that maybe this would be a good way to go about fighting terrorists. You go stomping through a woods looking for the pack of wolves that took out your sheep herd, you're not going to find them. You might, however, find them if you hide and wait for them to attack the sheep.

I'm not trained in such things, however, just personal security.

I'm 37. Not old, not particularly young. I have a 7-year-old boy and a little girl a little over a year. I hope whatever starts, starts when I'm still young enough to deal with it instead of making them deal with it.

There were precursors to WWI and WWII. They were pretty obvious, looking back. I do believe that we're living events that will be obvious to future generations. Could be WWIII, could be some rogue group or nation setting off a small nuke, something.

I'm not smart enough to really guess at it beyond that.

Regards,

Josh

[Josh Smith]

I need to clarify a point that keeps coming back to me. I mentioned it above, but in all the other ramblings it may have been overlooked.

Britain tried to take advantage of the American Colonies by making them supply raw materials, restricting industry in said colonies, and supplying heavily taxed finished goods. We got sick of it and had ourselves a tea party and a revolution. We seceded from the British Empire, in other words, because they took advantage of us.

Ninety years later, the South was supplying the North with raw materials, and the North was supplying the South with heavily taxed goods. The South got sick of it, formed the Confederate States of America, and seceded. Problem with this idea was that the North had more industry and could match troops, so the South was reintegrated to the United States by force. England could not do this with the American Colonies earlier because she simply could not get troops over here in time, and was also otherwise engaged in conflicts elsewhere in the world.

Now, we're feeling like we're being taken advantage of again. We're also a nation arming itself. It's impossible to find some calibers, especially .22 rimfire, and reloading supplies are also scarce. Cottage industries have sprung up to help supply demand.

You rile up Americans, and Americans tend to fight. This is the history I'm looking at when I talk about what will likely happen.

Regards,

Josh

[melanie]

And is that a break open side-by-side shotty I see bottom right?

Looks like it.

Who couldn't work out that's not automatic

[anthillinside]

I need to clarify a point that keeps coming back to me. I mentioned it above, but in all the other ramblings it may have been overlooked.

Britain tried to take advantage of the American Colonies by making them supply raw materials, restricting industry in said colonies, and supplying heavily taxed finished goods. We got sick of it and had ourselves a tea party and a revolution. We seceded from the British Empire, in other words, because they took advantage of us.

Ninety years later, the South was supplying the North with raw materials, and the North was supplying the South with heavily taxed goods. The South got sick of it, formed the Confederate States of America, and seceded. Problem with this idea was that the North had more industry and could match troops, so the South was reintegrated to the United States by force. England could not do this with the American Colonies earlier because she simply could not get troops over here in time, and was also otherwise engaged in conflicts elsewhere in the world.

Now, we're feeling like we're being taken advantage of again. We're also a nation arming itself. It's impossible to find some calibers, especially .22 rimfire, and reloading supplies are also scarce. Cottage industries have sprung up to help supply demand.

You rile up Americans, and Americans tend to fight. This is the history I'm looking at when I talk about what will likely happen.

Regards,

Josh

Sound reasoning about the past, … which we never seem to learn from.
One group taking advantage of another group always ends up in repression and rebellion, it’s been happening since the dawn of civilization.
However it’s a different ball game now.
In the past the repressed have been able to access pretty much the same technology as the oppressors, may be not at first, that’s the way the British empire was built and broken down again, the Roman empire was probably the same.
Now civil war is practically impossible in western countries.
Who ever controls the military has instant total victory because the opposing side cannot possibly catch up with the technology.
In reality your fight for the second amendment is misplaced.
Don’t get me wrong I admire your constitution and bill of rights and the way Americans want to defend it. It’s a rallying point and you use it to your full advantage.
But even if the second amendment was absolute and every American citizen had machine guns and rocket launchers they are no match for tanks, helicopters, patriot missiles etc. so there is no possibility of a militia controlling a corrupt government if that government retains control of the military.
The only option is a military coo and just look at the countries where that has happened.

Yes we certainly live in ”interesting times” and I want my kids to live safe and without fear.

Different again when we start talking countries.
100 years ago the allies would have declared all out war against the middle east.
But now that we (the USA) could wipe them out if they really wanted to we are “humanitarian” and only want to help make peace, in region the is still in it’s civil war stage.
I’ll stop here because I’m rambling on.
I think the future is going to be different than the past and is both the problem and the answer.

[1290]

Whatever is going on in thw usa, jade helm has got a lot of people either worried or at least scratching their heads.... but what has JH got to do with CERN?? do a jade helm google map search and it takes you to CERN, switzerland

[Josh Smith]

Now civil war is practically impossible in western countries.
Who ever controls the military has instant total victory because the opposing side cannot possibly catch up with the technology.
In reality your fight for the second amendment is misplaced.
Don’t get me wrong I admire your constitution and bill of rights and the way Americans want to defend it. It’s a rallying point and you use it to your full advantage.
But even if the second amendment was absolute and every American citizen had machine guns and rocket launchers they are no match for tanks, helicopters, patriot missiles etc. so there is no possibility of a militia controlling a corrupt government if that government retains control of the military.
The only option is a military coo and just look at the countries where that has happened.

Sir, I must respectfully disagree.

Fighting head-to-head would never work well.

There's a reason, however, that the French and, later, the Americans, were driven out of Vietnam by essentially stone-aged warriors armed with bolt actions, SKS carbines, and AK47s.

It really was the VC that did most of the work.

Similarly, Russia was driven out of Afghanistan.

Fire a shot from cover and run before the area is obliterated.

Additionally, the military would lose members and with them, weapons. Some police agencies here have fully automatic weapons.

It's still quite possible for the citizens to win an armed conflict. It may not be much longer, though.

Whatever, it would be very bloody and neither side wants it, save for fanatics on both sides. It's cooler heads which must prevail.

Regards,

Josh

[Sender]

Only the Doomsday Preppers getting excited reading about that

[anthillinside]

Sir, I must respectfully disagree.

Fighting head-to-head would never work well.

There's a reason, however, that the French and, later, the Americans, were driven out of Vietnam by essentially stone-aged warriors armed with bolt actions, SKS carbines, and AK47s.

It really was the VC that did most of the work.

Similarly, Russia was driven out of Afghanistan.

Fire a shot from cover and run before the area is obliterated.

Additionally, the military would lose members and with them, weapons. Some police agencies here have fully automatic weapons.

It's still quite possible for the citizens to win an armed conflict. It may not be much longer, though.

Whatever, it would be very bloody and neither side wants it, save for fanatics on both sides. It's cooler heads which must prevail.

Regards,

Josh

Thanks Josh,
Good points well made.
In counter argument
Both America and Russia had internal political issues to deal with. As they do even today. Eg: USA & Iraq. Russia & Ukraine
I wonder if the outcome would have been different had America and it's allies ANZAC included had gone in full force?
I don't think gorilla tactics would work to well with today’s technology, shooting from cover and running marks you as a target like in the recent Afghanistan war, ground troops moving around to draw fire then call in air support.
If we actually declared WAR on Iraq/Iran and went in full force do you think they would stand a chance?

Yes we would all hope that it would be the cooler heads that prevail.
We are a long way away and we see a lot of Doomsday prepers and WORL hype and a fair amount of fight for the second amendment, which as I said I admire, but the argument about using arms to overthrow a government just looks like the wrong tactic to me.
I don’t think the American people or the government would ever get close to civil war.
But using the second amendments “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State” as ammunition is more likely to scare the anti’s in power to try to limit the “right of the people to keep and bear Arms” in any possible way they can.
But I think we are getting a bit off topic.
The definition of Automatic is also looked at differently outside of USA and we get different points of view.
Good discussing it with you anyway.

[Rakk]

The definition of Automatic is also looked at differently outside of USA and we get different points of view.

Yeah bolt action Savages are "some kind of automatic" here

[1290]

Yeah bolt action Savages are "some kind of automatic" here

What a *****.... he thought no-one else could see it was a savage 110BA (if I recall correctly) so he took the opportunity, thought he'd get some extra mileage.... if he did actually think it was an auto, he shouldn't be in Vicpol let alone 2ic

But Back-door-Bob is good with definitions.... pistol is a glovebox-automatic-machine-pistol-hand-canon tool....

[Chickenhawk]

Yeah it's posted on here if you do a search, 110ba is correct.